ChiSoxJon Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Apr 9, 2018 -> 10:40 PM) 2015 Royals were pretty star-free, right? I guess...Moose, Hosmer, Cain, Wade, Gordon, Volquez, Shields Sox had Buehrle, PK, Dye, and AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (Special K @ Apr 9, 2018 -> 09:30 PM) As a very brief aside, is the ‘05 team the last World Series team to win a championship without a bona fide star? The 2008 Phillies don't have any Hall of Famers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Apr 9, 2018 -> 09:59 PM) I guess...Moose, Hosmer, Cain, Wade, Gordon, Volquez, Shields Sox had Buehrle, PK, Dye, and AJ Yordano Ventura definitely had the ability to be a star...someone is forgetting Frank Thomas on that roster. You have to count him, technically. A decade ago, you would have said that Hamels, Cliff Lee, Utley and Howard had decent to good chances at the HoF. Jimmy Rollins was a really excellent player for a decade as well. Also, a 39 year old Pedro Martinez was on that roster for part of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxJon Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 10, 2018 -> 01:14 AM) Yordano Ventura definitely had the ability to be a star...someone is forgetting Frank Thomas on that roster. You have to count him, technically. A decade ago, you would have said that Hamels, Cliff Lee, Utley and Howard had decent to good chances at the HoF. Jimmy Rollins was a really excellent player for a decade as well. Also, a 39 year old Pedro Martinez was on that roster for part of the year. I knew i was missing somebody, the homegrown ace...wow RIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (Special K @ Apr 9, 2018 -> 09:30 PM) As a very brief aside, is the ‘05 team the last World Series team to win a championship without a bona fide star? The Giants won three without a bona fide star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (FloydBannister1983 @ Apr 10, 2018 -> 07:34 AM) The Giants won three without a bona fide star. They had a pitcher who was definitely a star, and a HOFer behind the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Yeah the Royals are the last team to win without a superstar. The only player that maybe passes as a star if you squint hard enough would be Cain but only because of his glove. Volquez,Ventura, Moustakas and Hosmer. were above average or even just average players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (GermanSoxFan @ Apr 10, 2018 -> 06:47 AM) Yeah the Royals are the last team to win without a superstar. The only player that maybe passes as a star if you squint hard enough would be Cain but only because of his glove. Volquez,Ventura, Moustakas and Hosmer. were above average or even just average players. Posey Bumgarner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 10, 2018 -> 07:42 AM) They had a pitcher who was definitely a star, and a HOFer behind the plate. This. I suppose the Royals would qualify but it don’t happen often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 9, 2018 -> 11:02 PM) The 2008 Phillies don't have any Hall of Famers Cole Hamels is about 6 fWAR behind Mark Buehrle for his career, so maybe not HOF but also very good. Jimmy Rollins also goes into that Hall of Very Good with an MVP trophy to his credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 10, 2018 -> 07:42 AM) They had a pitcher who was definitely a star, and a HOFer behind the plate. What's amazing about the Giants is that I don't know which pitcher from their title years this is referring to since they've developed several and had a couple derailed by injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 10, 2018 -> 07:42 AM) They had a pitcher who was definitely a star, and a HOFer behind the plate. I'm not sure about that. He's been on fewer all-star teams than Mark Buehrle and is showing signs of breaking down. He excelled in the post-season but he only finished as high as fourth in Cy Young voting. Buehrle finished fifth. He is not much more of a star than Mark Buehrle. According to Baseball Reference Hall of Fame Statistics Posey isn't Hall of Fame (yet). It's still towards the middle/end of his career and he's on the wrong side of 30. He's Paul Konerko. Edited April 10, 2018 by FloydBannister1983 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (FloydBannister1983 @ Apr 10, 2018 -> 08:08 AM) I'm not sure about that. He's been on fewer all-star teams than Mark Buehrle. He excelled in the post-season but he only finished as high as fourth in Cy Young voting. He is not much more of a star than Mark Buehrle. According to Baseball Reference Hall of Fame Statistics Posey isn't Hall of Fame (yet). It's still towards the middle/end of his career and he's on the wrong side of 30. He's Paul Konerko. Is Mauer a HoF? Clearly, for now, no. But Molina probably makes it. Posey is the best of this generation, still needs another four or five productive seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 10, 2018 -> 08:48 AM) What's amazing about the Giants is that I don't know which pitcher from their title years this is referring to since they've developed several and had a couple derailed by injuries. Bumgarner had the best pitching performance I have ever seen in a World Series. He is still on the right side of 30 as well and has a legit shot at the HOF if he pitches well enough for another 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (reiks12 @ Apr 10, 2018 -> 09:12 AM) Bumgarner had the best pitching performance I have ever seen in a World Series. He is still on the right side of 30 as well and has a legit shot at the HOF if he pitches well enough for another 10 years. He needs to win a Cy Young or come relatively close. He hasn't come relatively close. He also can't have too many more 17 game seasons. He's also on the disabled list to start this season. Could be minor setbacks but guys like this do breakdown early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (FloydBannister1983 @ Apr 10, 2018 -> 09:08 AM) I'm not sure about that. He's been on fewer all-star teams than Mark Buehrle and is showing signs of breaking down. He excelled in the post-season but he only finished as high as fourth in Cy Young voting. Buehrle finished fifth. He is not much more of a star than Mark Buehrle. According to Baseball Reference Hall of Fame Statistics Posey isn't Hall of Fame (yet). It's still towards the middle/end of his career and he's on the wrong side of 30. He's Paul Konerko. When the Giants won the WS in 2012, Buster Posey was the MVP. That's a star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) QUOTE (FloydBannister1983 @ Apr 10, 2018 -> 09:16 AM) He needs to win a Cy Young or come relatively close. He hasn't come relatively close. He also can't have too many more 17 game seasons. He's also on the disabled list to start this season. Could be minor setbacks but guys like this do breakdown early. Doesn't help that he has pitched in the same league as one of the best pitchers that any of us will ever see in our lives. Edited April 10, 2018 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (FloydBannister1983 @ Apr 10, 2018 -> 07:34 AM) The Giants won three without a bona fide star. Buster Posey? Madison Bumgarner? Tim Lincecum won 2 Cy Youngs as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (FloydBannister1983 @ Apr 10, 2018 -> 09:16 AM) He needs to win a Cy Young or come relatively close. He hasn't come relatively close. He also can't have too many more 17 game seasons. He's also on the disabled list to start this season. Could be minor setbacks but guys like this do breakdown early. It doesn't matter, he was a star when they won the WS. Using fangraphs to determine HOF worthiness isn't always a good idea. According to them Javy Vazquez has more WAR in about 400 less innings than Mark Buehrle. I don't think there is a sole here that really would rather have Vazquez on the mound instead of Buehrle in an elimination game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Apr 10, 2018 -> 09:52 AM) Buster Posey? Madison Bumgarner? Tim Lincecum won 2 Cy Youngs as well. Yeah prime Lincecum was definitely a star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Apr 10, 2018 -> 09:54 AM) Yeah prime Lincecum was definitely a star. Yeah, the point being, you aren't going to win with a rotation of Gavin Floyds, no matter how much some want to spin it. If Giolito is Floyd, that will be a disappointment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Buster Posey is definitely a HOF, especially considering the catcher position for HOF'ers is probably the weakest. 5x all star (and counting) 3 championships, NL MVP, Gold glove, batting champion, etc. He's in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 10, 2018 -> 09:56 AM) Yeah, the point being, you aren't going to win with a rotation of Gavin Floyds, no matter how much some want to spin it. If Giolito is Floyd, that will be a disappointment. I'd amend this to saying if Giolito is Floyd, and that's the best turnout of all of our pitchign prospects, that's really bad. But context is everything. If Giolito is Floyd and Kopech is an Ace and someone becomes a really good #2, then it's fine. If we needed giolito to be the ace and he failed, no good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Apr 10, 2018 -> 09:52 AM) Buster Posey? Madison Bumgarner? Tim Lincecum won 2 Cy Youngs as well. Lincecum was a bum pitching in relief by the time they won their second World Series. Before that he was a star. Again, Bumgarner was a World Series hero but was no star in the regular season. No more so than Mark Buehrle. Edited April 10, 2018 by FloydBannister1983 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 9, 2018 -> 07:20 PM) This may be an unpopular opinion, but If Gio has a similar career to Floyd, it would be a great outcome for the Sox. Seeing as he is here now, and seemingly mechanically fixed, I would hope for that as a floor versus a mid level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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