Adam Engel -- how much longer does he have as a regular?

[Heads22]

My list of possible 4 OF with positives and negatives of each. Hopefully we have Avi, Robert and Eloy out there and the final spot goes to someone who can play all 3 spots decently and provide speed and defense with some hope as a bat. aka - some power, some speed, some walks

I am assuming their age and role in 2019 and 2020 as that's when it'll matter. Now? It really doesn't. By 2021 one of these guys should be a 4OF (likely it might not be any of these guys)

 

Cordell - 26 years old currently. 27 and 28 respectively.

Played AAA for first time as 25 year old. 11th round pick. Held his own at each level in the minors, decent speed, decent getting on base, not sure on defense. However he's played in the PCL league and this year in Charlotte. Both are good for offensive numbers. I see him as a Band-Aid.

 

Charlie Tilson - 25 years old currently

Split seasons at A and A+ and then A+ and AA for his first two season at age 20 and 21 reaching a full season at AA at 22 and then AAA at 23. He's stole 46 bags in AA in 2015. Hit basically .282 and above each year, with the .282 coming in his first year at AAA. OBP decent. Played full seasons each year minus last year. Off to a cold start this year.

 

Trayce Thompson - 27 years old currently (hypothetically)

Bounced a round a bit over the past few years as we are aware. Batted nearly .300 with the CWS at age 24 getting on base at nearly a .363OBP. He was traded to the Dodgers and hit .225 over 260 AB's playing good efense and hitting 13 homers. Down in AAA at 26yo he hit .212 over 370AB's. Didn't really hit many homers or walk or slug either. Really tough year.

He has proven himself on a somewhat limited basis what he probably tops out at in the MLB. With consistent AB's you can probably pencil in .240BA and some power, probably a bit worse with spotty AB's. Decent defense and can cover all positions. However would be 28 and 29yo respectively when he's called to do 4 OF duty

 

Leury Garcia - 27 years old currently

He's had a taste of the majors since 22 years old in 2013, but with his first real extended look coming last year with 326 AB's hitting .270 and 9HR. His last real minor league experience was 2016 when he crushed the ball .313BA and OBP .367. no real power, and is what I'd call replacement level at OF defense.

 

Engel - 27? years old currently

I think we all know what he is. Strong D and speed. Very poor everything else.

 

The field:

Rutherford - 20 years old

In Single A right now. Had a rough year against expectations last year. Even with a truly execptional year in 2018 would guess by 2020 he's still in the minors. Say he finishes in AA this year. Starts in AA, makes it to AAA midseason in 2019. Seems unlikely that even happens. If it does were probably looking at him as an actual starter. Otherwise I'd guess 2021 as a year he'd come up as 4OF.

 

Robert - 20 years old

Doubtful he'll be up either in 2020. I can see him taking the meteoric route. But that puts him in the OF as a toolsy OF in 2020.

 

Adolfo - 21 years old currently

Probably still at least 2-3 years away.

 

Basabe - 21 years old

Great defense. Toolsy. Not a great year last year. Strong start this year. Based on defense might be the type of guy who works his way to the MLB level quickly as a 4OF. if you want him to be apart of the true future OF then I think he needs 2-3 more years of seasoning with the bat in the minors.

 

Long winded post, but my order of who I think has the brightest future 2018-2021 as the fringe 3/4OF while we await Robert. Meaning the guy who should be manning the 3rd OF spot and then slot to 4OF when Robert comes up.

Tilson (current-2021)

Basabe (pushing for job in 2020-2021)

Cordell (pushing for job second half of 2018 and into the future - think job should go to Tilson first)

Leury (holding down the job now, but should be pushed by Tilson)

Rutherford (Ideally ready by 2021 at which point he should replace Tilson or Basabe)

 

I think that Engel, Jacob May and Thompson shouldn't be considered at all now or in the future.

 

I've got some bad news for you about Cordell

 

[he gone.]

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 7:10 PM, Heads22 said:

My list of possible 4 OF with positives and negatives of each. Hopefully we have Avi, Robert and Eloy out there and the final spot goes to someone who can play all 3 spots decently and provide speed and defense with some hope as a bat. aka - some power, some speed, some walks

I am assuming their age and role in 2019 and 2020 as that's when it'll matter. Now? It really doesn't. By 2021 one of these guys should be a 4OF (likely it might not be any of these guys)

 

Cordell - 26 years old currently. 27 and 28 respectively.

Played AAA for first time as 25 year old. 11th round pick. Held his own at each level in the minors, decent speed, decent getting on base, not sure on defense. However he's played in the PCL league and this year in Charlotte. Both are good for offensive numbers. I see him as a Band-Aid.

 

Charlie Tilson - 25 years old currently

Split seasons at A and A+ and then A+ and AA for his first two season at age 20 and 21 reaching a full season at AA at 22 and then AAA at 23. He's stole 46 bags in AA in 2015. Hit basically .282 and above each year, with the .282 coming in his first year at AAA. OBP decent. Played full seasons each year minus last year. Off to a cold start this year.

 

Trayce Thompson - 27 years old currently (hypothetically)

Bounced a round a bit over the past few years as we are aware. Batted nearly .300 with the CWS at age 24 getting on base at nearly a .363OBP. He was traded to the Dodgers and hit .225 over 260 AB's playing good efense and hitting 13 homers. Down in AAA at 26yo he hit .212 over 370AB's. Didn't really hit many homers or walk or slug either. Really tough year.

He has proven himself on a somewhat limited basis what he probably tops out at in the MLB. With consistent AB's you can probably pencil in .240BA and some power, probably a bit worse with spotty AB's. Decent defense and can cover all positions. However would be 28 and 29yo respectively when he's called to do 4 OF duty

 

Leury Garcia - 27 years old currently

He's had a taste of the majors since 22 years old in 2013, but with his first real extended look coming last year with 326 AB's hitting .270 and 9HR. His last real minor league experience was 2016 when he crushed the ball .313BA and OBP .367. no real power, and is what I'd call replacement level at OF defense.

 

Engel - 27? years old currently

I think we all know what he is. Strong D and speed. Very poor everything else.

 

The field:

Rutherford - 20 years old

In Single A right now. Had a rough year against expectations last year. Even with a truly execptional year in 2018 would guess by 2020 he's still in the minors. Say he finishes in AA this year. Starts in AA, makes it to AAA midseason in 2019. Seems unlikely that even happens. If it does were probably looking at him as an actual starter. Otherwise I'd guess 2021 as a year he'd come up as 4OF.

 

Robert - 20 years old

Doubtful he'll be up either in 2020. I can see him taking the meteoric route. But that puts him in the OF as a toolsy OF in 2020.

 

Adolfo - 21 years old currently

Probably still at least 2-3 years away.

 

Basabe - 21 years old

Great defense. Toolsy. Not a great year last year. Strong start this year. Based on defense might be the type of guy who works his way to the MLB level quickly as a 4OF. if you want him to be apart of the true future OF then I think he needs 2-3 more years of seasoning with the bat in the minors.

 

Long winded post, but my order of who I think has the brightest future 2018-2021 as the fringe 3/4OF while we await Robert. Meaning the guy who should be manning the 3rd OF spot and then slot to 4OF when Robert comes up.

Tilson (current-2021)

Basabe (pushing for job in 2020-2021)

Cordell (pushing for job second half of 2018 and into the future - think job should go to Tilson first)

Leury (holding down the job now, but should be pushed by Tilson)

Rutherford (Ideally ready by 2021 at which point he should replace Tilson or Basabe)

 

I think that Engel, Jacob May and Thompson shouldn't be considered at all now or in the future.

 

I've got some bad news for you about Cordell

 

I know Cordell is hurt..? if that's what you're implying. He still should be given a chance the second half of the season though.

I also stick by my post that I don't think Trayce Thompson should have been afforded this opportunity. He's better than Engel, but that's not saying much. I think Tilson should get a crack at CF for an extended period soon.

[chitownsportsfan]

Tilson currently has a .497 OPS in AAA.   He missed what, about 15 months completely away from competitive games?  He's not the answer and needs at least 300-400 PA in AAA to get his feet under him.

I'd just start Trayce 5 nights out of 6 and give Engel the other one for now.  Leury is the odd man out at the moment although maybe he can get some IF reps.

Trayce is quite a bit better than Engel.  Adam Engel has never proven he's even a AAAA player frankly.  I think his true talent is below replacement.  He's shown nothing that proves otherwise.  

[Dick Allen]

29 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

I know Cordell is hurt..? if that's what you're implying. He still should be given a chance the second half of the season though.

I also stick by my post that I don't think Trayce Thompson should have been afforded this opportunity. He's better than Engel, but that's not saying much. I think Tilson should get a crack at CF for an extended period soon.

Engel, Tilson, Cordell, none of them ever could have been substituted for Trayce in the Frazier deal. Trayce is probably better than all three, and has more upside than all 3, although he is far from surefire. But they need to let him play and get some ABs.

[Panerista]

46 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Tilson currently has a .497 OPS in AAA.   He missed what, about 15 months completely away from competitive games?  He's not the answer and needs at least 300-400 PA in AAA to get his feet under him.

I'd just start Trayce 5 nights out of 6 and give Engel the other one for now.  Leury is the odd man out at the moment although maybe he can get some IF reps.

Trayce is quite a bit better than Engel.  Adam Engel has never proven he's even a AAAA player frankly.  I think his true talent is below replacement.  He's shown nothing that proves otherwise.  

I like this idea with Trayce.  He's not the future, but he appears to be a much more serviceable player than whatever Engel is.

[he gone.]

Tilson could use a few weeks of seasoning, but by June 1 he should be up. His track record before the injury wasn't too shabby. Whatever it is we know Engel isn't the answer. So I do agree, although I don't think Trayce is the answer either, that he should be playing the majority of the time.

[BigHurt3515]

Jacob May is doing better then Tilson

[he gone.]

Jacob May may very well be doing better than Tilson at this current time, but I don't think we are judging players by 20 games. 99 of 100 people would take Tilson over May. That's assuming 100 people even know either of these two players. What I am saying is Tilson has a better shot than Cordell, Engel, May, Thompson and Garcia to make it as a 4OF on a contending team in a few years.

[ScootsMcGoots]

My opinion. Engel has until the end of the month to prove he can start (that's a week away), then I think you will see Thompson start the majority of the games. I still think Engel has a place on THIS team, I just think it is way more suited as a late-inning running/defensive replacement.

[TheBlackSox8]

1 hour ago, Scoots said:

My opinion. Engel has until the end of the month to prove he can start (that's a week away), then I think you will see Thompson start the majority of the games. I still think Engel has a place on THIS team, I just think it is way more suited as a late-inning running/defensive replacement.

Just so I'm following you correctly...THIS means 2018 team, right?  I read ya.?

[ScootsMcGoots]

11 minutes ago, TheBlackSox8 said:

Just so I'm following you correctly...THIS means 2018 team, right?  I read ya.?

Yeah haha. Definitely not next season unless he miraculously finds a way to hit over .250 by season's end.

[caulfield12]

Making plans around MLB contributions from Charlie Tilson seems foolhardy at best...

[he gone.]

Making plans out of ANY of this motley crew we've put together seems foolhardy.

I think it's more likely we acquire an OF like a Jon Jay (not him specifically - a player like him) to supplement our OF in 2020 and beyond.

 

Speaking about Tilson, Cordell, May, Thompson, Engel, etc. etc.

[wrathofhahn]

I mean I think he continues at least September.

Not high on him at all never was but the only guy sort of ready is Tilson and he's stinking it up in minor league ball. Cordell would be the guy if he was healthy.

[caulfield12]

Alcantara, Ruggiano and Franklin Gutierrez are the only potential veteran CF options out there, fwiw.

[wrathofhahn]

I'd be open to playing Garcia back in CF then having Avi and Nick as our corner guys. Problem is they aren't healthy either.

Engel is one lucky SOB. He once again basically gets the CF job because he's the only man still standing.

[KipWellsFan]

I logged onto soxtalk for the first time in what seems like years just to come on here and figure out why the heck Adam Engel is a starting Major League Baseball player...

what the heck 

[hi8is]

On 4/24/2018 at 4:51 PM, KipWellsFan said:

I logged onto soxtalk for the first time in what seems like years just to come on here and figure out why the heck Adam Engel is a starting Major League Baseball player...

what the heck 

Because, Kip Wells.

[FT35]

On 4/23/2018 at 1:32 PM, Dick Allen said:

Engel, Tilson, Cordell, none of them ever could have been substituted for Trayce in the Frazier deal. Trayce is probably better than all three, and has more upside than all 3, although he is far from surefire. But they need to let him play and get some ABs.

Off the wall thought of the night...but Ian Happ sure looks out of place right now on the north side—with Baez running away with the 2nd base job and Almora Jr. doing the same in CF...could we put him to work??  They probably want a pitcher...Jones?  Rodon?  Ok I’m going to shut up now.

[caulfield12]

There's no way we can sell low on Rodon at this point...even though Happ seems like a decent bet, he's always going to be limited defensively, so he's going to have to hit like Schwarber to have much value.  He does (still) have a 741 OPS, but, once again, the defensive limitations bite into the overall value significantly.

Certainly, it would be a huge upgrade in CF (in terms of "offensive potential".)

The Cubs would counteroffer...take Ben Zobrist and we'll give you X/Y/Z prospects to ditch that contract, lol.

Edited April 26, 2018 by caulfield12

[hi8is]

13 days, 6 hours, and 37 minutes.

[FT35]

10 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

There's no way we can sell low on Rodon at this point...even though Happ seems like a decent bet, he's always going to be limited defensively, so he's going to have to hit like Schwarber to have much value.  He does (still) have a 741 OPS, but, once again, the defensive limitations bite into the overall value significantly.

Certainly, it would be a huge upgrade in CF (in terms of "offensive potential".)

The Cubs would counteroffer...take Ben Zobrist and we'll give you X/Y/Z prospects to ditch that contract, lol.

Not a bad return for an injury prone Boras client.  

[caulfield12]

Well, if you consider the fact that dealing Rodon wipes out one of your potential aces under team control through 2021...then the cost is probably going to be higher, simply because that means that Kopech, Lopez, Hansen, Cease and Dunning (and/or Giolito) pretty much all have to make it as effective major league starters AND avoid injury.

The odds of that are slim and none, of course.

Which means trading minor league outfielders and/or spending top dollars acquiring a FA pitcher on the open market.

[FT35]

Yeah, I think we will end up sticking to the template of buying an ace when we’re ready to make a run, even if we have 1 or 2 who have developed by then.  

Tough call on Rodon though.  I mean you want him to be good, but good drives his price up right at the time he becomes a FA.  Plus 2021 would be the earliest our window would start to crack open—so his current contract is not as important as his next.  Is Carlos Rodon “The man” we will build our top teams’ rotations around?  Cause I think if he shows us that more talent is developing between now and then (on bad teams), Boras will price him as such.  

We could take on significant payroll this winter...I don’t know how Carlos fits for a big extension with what he’s shown.  Just need a larger sample size.  Still lots of time to see I suppose.  

[caulfield12]

If 2020 is not a competitive team for the White Sox, if not a playoff team (the Indians' foundation is already showing cracks)...then the rebuild has already started to go awry.