Jose Abreu Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: If we have learned anything from the first six weeks of this season, it should be to pump the breaks on assuming instant stardom from call ups. Who are you referring to? I totally agree that Kopech and Jimenez won't be that good that soon. But those who assumed instant stardom (or at least very good production) from Moncada this year were correct, so far. If it's Giolito, I'd argue he isn't in the same tier of prospects as Yoan/Jimenez/Kopech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 18 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: If we have learned anything from the first six weeks of this season, it should be to pump the breaks on assuming instant stardom from call ups. That's why I said 2019. I'm under the assumption Kopech will be brought up this year. If he finishes 2019 with a 3.2 ERA, that would be a big upgrade to the TOR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 13 hours ago, soxfan49 said: You’re assuming that this rebuild is going to be only the guys they have in the farm system. 1) let’s say it is and in *2019* Kopech is very good, Moncada continues to hit the piss out of the ball and Jimenez is great. Don’t you think adding a 3.20 ERA at the top of the rotation and a 35 homer guy in the middle of the order are going to be a tremendous help? 2) there are things called trades and free agent signings. Similar to the Cubs, Astros and Royals, the Sox will finally start adding pieces via these 2 avenues. 3) KC is a small market team who couldn’t pay any of their guys. The Sox will likely keep Moncada and Jimenez. Assuming the Sox will once again work their magic on a team friendly long term deal with an up and coming youngster, that will allow them to keep one more. Not every good player will leave via FA some day This is all great in theory, but reality strikes. If all the correct guys pan out and the White Sox spend billions on free agents and trades, with the same guys making the decisions, when it comes time for these guys to be paid....just remember, this is a team that couldn't afford to build around Sale, Q, and Eaton signed to cheap, very team friendly contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 18 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: This is all great in theory, but reality strikes. If all the correct guys pan out and the White Sox spend billions on free agents and trades, with the same guys making the decisions, when it comes time for these guys to be paid....just remember, this is a team that couldn't afford to build around Sale, Q, and Eaton signed to cheap, very team friendly contracts. Woah woah woah. I'm not saying dish out "billions" or hand out a ton of them. The Cubs for instance: signed Zobrist, signed Lester, traded for Chapman midseason. If the normal amount of prospects pan out, the Sox would need to add only a few impact FA's. If they assume they have a 4 year window before some prospects leave for big contracts, I could see 2020 being a year in which they give 3-4 year deals, this way those are up when Moncada, Jimenez, etc hit free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Among other things that are going to be beneficial to the white sox when this hell ends, the market for mid-range vets has cratered compared to when we needed one for every other position player. But beyond that, I am certain that the depth of the org has increased to the point that the org will never again need to feel that it needs to shell out consistently for utility infielders, 37 year old placeholder short stops, and DH's, and can pay the premium required for actual production instead of market price for replacement level they can't recreate themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 28 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Woah woah woah. I'm not saying dish out "billions" or hand out a ton of them. The Cubs for instance: signed Zobrist, signed Lester, traded for Chapman midseason. If the normal amount of prospects pan out, the Sox would need to add only a few impact FA's. If they assume they have a 4 year window before some prospects leave for big contracts, I could see 2020 being a year in which they give 3-4 year deals, this way those are up when Moncada, Jimenez, etc hit free agency. The Cubs world championship took about half a billion dollars in free agent spending to achieve, in addition to the other stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The Cubs world championship took about half a billion dollars in free agent spending to achieve, in addition to the other stuff. Obviously there will be hits and misses with FA signings just like prospects, but a big chunk of that was from Heyward, and so I'm hoping the Sox don't make a $184 million error like that. Lester and Zobrist were key signings as was Fowler. IIRC, those 3 signings don't even combine to be $200 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Obviously there will be hits and misses with FA signings just like prospects, but a big chunk of that was from Heyward, and so I'm hoping the Sox don't make a $184 million error like that. Lester and Zobrist were key signings as was Fowler. IIRC, those 3 signings don't even combine to be $200 million. Lester was $155 million Fowler cost about $20 million over his two years. Zobrist was $56 million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: Lester was $155 million Fowler cost about $20 million over his two years. Zobrist was $56 million I was mixing the Darvish and Lester deals up. My bad. That's a big chunk of it. For Fowler I thought it was only 16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Lester was $155 million Fowler cost about $20 million over his two years. Zobrist was $56 million Lackey was another $32 million. They traded for Montero, not a FA signing, but he made $40 million from 2015-17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said: Lackey was another $32 million. They traded for Montero, not a FA signing, but he made $40 million from 2015-17. Don't forget Edwin Jackson's $52 million, and they have won once, same as the 2005 White Sox. They are only going to spend more. Sustained success is very expensive. I think some White Sox fans think the supposed trillions the Sox are making with 2,000 fans in the stands now, will more than cover any later needs. Edited May 14, 2018 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) Not to mention the mid-market teams only get 3-4 real shots. With the talent that Boston, NYY, Houston and Anaheim (now) have to play with, it’s tough/er. Cleveland got to the World Series again, yet much of their fanbase is like ours in 2010/12, waiting for the best teams to win out. It’s an especially tough position to be in for teams like Toronto, Minnesota, Oakland and Seattle, to put all your resources into a wild card run and to be eliminated in just one game. In our division, the Tigers never won it all despite huge talent and even bigger payrolls. Edited May 14, 2018 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 You guys are throwing around total contract value and that's a nice device, but yes I fully expect the white sox to have several signings making 12+ million a year. I mean. Don't forget about the 48 million we paid Melky. Or 30 million we paid James Shields. Or 46 million to David Robertson. Like really? John Lackey's contract is some unattainable golden goose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 4 hours ago, soxfan49 said: On the prior page of this thread, you said that the majority of the Sox best prospects won't be in the majors for another 2-3 seasons, but now you're saying the following will be up by the end of next year: Kopech, Jimenez, Collins, Dunning, Cease and Hansen. I'm so confused. Their 1st full year is what I meant. Sorry for the miscommunication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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