oldsox Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 40 minutes ago, WBWSF said: I've sat through a few seminars with Hahn and he mentioned at those seminars he expected Fulmer and Giolito to be major parts of the rebuild. Harvard educated 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, oldsox said: Harvard educated It amazes me that someone would wield a quality education as an insult. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, WBWSF said: I've sat through a few seminars with Hahn and he mentioned at those seminars he expected Fulmer and Giolito to be major parts of the rebuild. It amazes me how some people won't criticize the guys we got in the trades. We have the right to blast them and question Hahn until they start producing. These guys are all making good money, produce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Is Coop as good coaching these tall pitchers as well as he succeeds with normal sized pitchers? Gio is 6-6 and how many of those guys have problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Despite the results I liked what I saw from Giolito. He's still struggling with his control but his pitches have more life to them. His two-seam sat around 93mph with late movement, the slider and curve had good bite to them. Control did him in. I'd like to see him throw that two-seam more often. Only throw the four-seam high on 0-2/1-2 counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, WBWSF said: I've sat through a few seminars with Hahn and he mentioned at those seminars he expected Fulmer and Giolito to be major parts of the rebuild. If he was a good GM he would have been honest and deemed them busts at the seminar. What a joke of a GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticky Stuff Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hot FiRe said: If he was a good GM he would have been honest and deemed them busts at the seminar. What a joke of a GM. What else is he going to say? It’s not like Coop was giving the seminar. I’m all in favor of Coop answering all pitcher related questions from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 24 minutes ago, Hot FiRe said: If he was a good GM he would have been honest and deemed them busts at the seminar. What a joke of a GM. So what you are saying is that there are no good GM's in professional sports? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Hot FiRe said: If he was a good GM he would have been honest and deemed them busts at the seminar. What a joke of a GM. You honestly believe that no one can improve after the age of 23 and 24 career starts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Well he looked solid last year.. but He doesn't have great stuff and lacks control.. I kind of don't see the end game for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, harkness99 said: Well he looked solid last year.. but He doesn't have great stuff and lacks control.. I kind of don't see the end game for him. Endgame could be he ends up an arm in the pen. Luke Hochevar comes to mind as a guy who couldn't figure it out as a starter but had 3 very good years once moving to the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 I still look back at those arguments I had with everyone saying I'd trade him for a rental of Machado. Even for a year of him I'd send Gio away. I thi k he will be a below average starter but maybe a nice long relief option if he can rev up the FB again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) I wasn't aware that sarcasm was a foreign language here. I meant to imply that WBSFBSB's comment was idiotic. Edited June 17, 2018 by Hot FiRe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan of Steel Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, fathom said: Giolito was absolutely supposed to be part of the rotation for when they're contenders. Hopefully Covey becomes a member. Since when? Maybe that was the plan going into 2017, but you can't assume a guy will suddenly turn his stuff into gold. This seems to be old White Sox fan logic going to work, because even just a few years back, we were incapable of doing anything but relying on a select few guys to translate their potential into tangible results. That isn't the case anymore. We have quantity as well as quality, so we can accommodate for the inevitable bust here or there that ultimately takes place, regardless of franchise. Fact is that there were very legitimate doubts that Giolito could be a consistent rotation pitcher since he was dealt. He was a high risk, high reward guy. He had a ton of potential but a lot of issues to adjust. So far, those issues are still a factor and we aren't reaping his potential. Granted, he's been better, but not good at all still. You can't expect the plan moving forward to be relying on a guy who was a flight risk going into the trade. As for what Hahn said, I couldn't care less. I need context first, and more often than not, that will just be GM speak, because what purpose does it serve to talk down a guy in your current rotation? Either you hurt his confidence or your hurt his trade value or both. Edited June 17, 2018 by Dan of Steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Dan of Steel said: Since when? Maybe that was the plan going into 2017, but you can't assume a guy will suddenly turn his stuff into gold. This seems to be old White Sox fan logic going to work, because even just a few years back, we were incapable of doing anything but relying on a select few guys to translate their potential into tangible results. That isn't the case anymore. We have quantity as well as quality, so we can accommodate for the inevitable bust here or there that ultimately takes place, regardless of franchise. Fact is that there were very legitimate doubts that Giolito could be a consistent rotation pitcher since he was dealt. He was a high risk, high reward guy. He had a ton of potential but a lot of issues to adjust. So far, those issues are still a factor and we aren't reaping his potential. Granted, he's been better, but not good at all still. You can't expect the plan moving forward to be relying on a guy who was a flight risk going into the trade. As for what Hahn said, I couldn't care less. I need context first, and more often than not, that will just be GM speak, because what purpose does it serve to talk down a guy in your current rotation? Either you hurt his confidence or your hurt his trade value or both. Of course he was considered a part of the rebuild. He wasn’t exactly a throw in for the Eaton trade. He won’t be 24 for another month, so maybe there is still a chance. His performance after he was called up last season was pretty similar to Lopez performance this year. Is Lopez not considered part of the rebuild either? Did they just give Eaton away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan of Steel Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 41 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Of course he was considered a part of the rebuild. He wasn’t exactly a throw in for the Eaton trade. He won’t be 24 for another month, so maybe there is still a chance. His performance after he was called up last season was pretty similar to Lopez performance this year. Is Lopez not considered part of the rebuild either? Did they just give Eaton away? I never said Giolito wasn't part of the rebuild. I insinuated that he wasn't a major part of the rotation and the fate of the success of this rebuild didn't hinge on whether he succeeded or failed. Obviously, having him figure his stuff out and realizing his potential would benefit this team moving forward, but there are a ridiculous number of pitchers in the farm that very much can take his place and keep the competitive window on schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Dan of Steel said: I never said Giolito wasn't part of the rebuild. I insinuated that he wasn't a major part of the rotation and the fate of the success of this rebuild didn't hinge on whether he succeeded or failed. Obviously, having him figure his stuff out and realizing his potential would benefit this team moving forward, but there are a ridiculous number of pitchers in the farm that very much can take his place and keep the competitive window on schedule. I think a lot of people , including White Sox employees, were expecting Giolito to be a part of the next good White Sox team. The same things that happened to Giolito can happen to all of these guys. Hopefully it won’t. I would like to know know who you think they are counting on. IMO, it is more likely they have to still spend a lot of money on pitching when they start trying to be good, than they have all the pitching they need except for some small pieces here and there in house. One reason Theo stuck with hitters is the crapshoot young pitching is. Edited June 17, 2018 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 If we stipulate that the 3 OF spots will be nicely manned by current minor leaguers, then rebuild timing/effectiveness will rely upon starting pitching and quality IF'rs. As we sit here today, its not obvious beyond Rodon who among the current crop of pitchers can be counted on as future starters. Covey looks projectable but jury still out on Kopech, Lopez, Hanson, et al. Sure we can project outcomes for guys like Dunning and Cease but the minor leagues are full of promising youngsters who can through fastballs. That said, I have more confidence in our ability to produce a competitive rotation out of existing assets than I do for our infield. Its hard to project what the IF will look like in 2-3 years based on the current guys we pencil in. Other than Abreu (who might be better used in trade), its hard to be inspired. When you go around the horn of the top tier teams, we pale at every position. To compensate, we need to trot out a rotation that can shut teams down. Here's hoping a couple guys seperate themselves from the pack and can be counted on in 2020 and beyond. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 I Look at Boston and New York and they are producing positional players but struggle to bring up young pitchers. So they go out and trade/buy them. If the Sox can produce enough positional players, they will only need a couple of the young pitchers to develop as long as they spend for pitching on the free agent market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 I would like to see the Sox jump start this rebuild by trading for Machado with a package that overwhelms the O's, and then open the check book to sign him long term before he goes to Free Agency. So, for anyone who might agree, would you consider including Moncada or Giolito or Abreu as a potential centerpiece in a trade for Machado? My guess is that it would take one of them plus another player like Avi or a pitching prospect like Fulmer to get it done....to beat teams like the Cubs who will offer up a substantial package of prospects/players to get Machado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 29 minutes ago, tray said: I would like to see the Sox jump start this rebuild by trading for Machado with a package that overwhelms the O's, and then open the check book to sign him long term before he goes to Free Agency. So, for anyone who might agree, would you consider including Moncada or Giolito or Abreu as a potential centerpiece in a trade for Machado? My guess is that it would take one of them plus another player like Avi or a pitching prospect like Fulmer to get it done....to beat teams like the Cubs who will offer up a substantial package of prospects/players to get Machado. It was made clear this past winter that Machado is not signing an extension and will hit the free agent market. Why in the world would he pass on an opportunity to have multiple contenders bid for him on the open market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Ugh. The rebuild is still a toddler. Of course there are still questions. At the stage the Cubs and Astros were will losing 100 games a year. I have never gotten the rush to be first to declare failures and enjoy that. Get off your phones and go enjoy your dads and/ or kids instead of being miserable about a game that is supposed to bring happiness and escape. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Please though, tell me more about how his issues are physical and not mental when the dude consistently gets the first two out and then melts down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: Please though, tell me more about how his issues are physical and not mental when the dude consistently gets the first two out and then melts down He actually pitched pretty well yesterday except for 2 pitches. If those don’t happen, it’s probably Giolito is back on track to being an ace. The problem is he makes those bad pitches or he walks a ton of guys . If it isn’t one thing, it’s another. I think both mental and stuff have been issues this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 15 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: Please though, tell me more about how his issues are physical and not mental when the dude consistently gets the first two out and then melts down Couldn't that be a physical issue out of the stretch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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