WHarris1 Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 2004 Chicago White Sox Manager:Cito Gaston Lineup 1) Luis Castillo-2B 2) Orlando Cabrera-SS 3) Frank Thomas-DH 4) Carlos Lee-LF 5) Carl Everett-RF 6) Joe Crede-3B 7) Brad Fullmer-1B 8) Willie Harris-CF 9) Miguel Olivo-C Rotation Bartolo Colon Mark Buehrle Esteban Loaiza Jon Garland Scot Schoenweis Bullpen Damaso Marte Scott Sullivan Tom Gordon Kelly Wunsch LaTroy Hawkins Some long relief guy Bench Tony Graffanino Sandy Alomar Robbie Alomar Aaron Rowand Some other guy Note: I didn't say this is what I think it will be, it's what I want it to be. It porbably has a 5% chance of happening. It will involve many free agent signings and trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 You know how much that team would cost? And Robbie Alomar would never come off the bench Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 You know how much that team would cost? And Robbie Alomar would never come off the bench That team wouldn't be too expensive since you see Koch/Konerko and Maggs salaries off the books. I have no idea what they got for those three cause I didn't see any trade acquisitions, but I'd love that team. I'd rather have Reed in center over Harris, but other then that me likey. That right their tells me the Sox could compete unloading Konerko and Maggs. It may not be the greatest offense of all time but it would be better then the Cubs and it would have some decent speed. But a guy I'd love to have at first that I know is impossible is Derrik Lee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 You know how much that team would cost? And Robbie Alomar would never come off the bench Ok well screw Robbie, and how much do you think it would cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 That team wouldn't be too expensive since you see Koch/Konerko and Maggs salaries off the books. I have no idea what they got for those three cause I didn't see any trade acquisitions, but I'd love that team. I'd rather have Reed in center over Harris, but other then that me likey. That right their tells me the Sox could compete unloading Konerko and Maggs. It may not be the greatest offense of all time but it would be better then the Cubs and it would have some decent speed. But a guy I'd love to have at first that I know is impossible is Derrik Lee. Trade Maggs, Konerko, and Koch and that opens money for Hawkins, Cabrera, Castillo, Everett, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 That team would also have a great imporvment on defense from this year. Castillo and Cabrera up the middle would be huge. With Everett over to right, and Willie/Reed in center. That would be a very good defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Ok well screw Robbie, and how much do you think it would cost? Ya...you got to forget about Robbie. Cost 10-12 mill for your up the middle combo (It could be less..I've heard a few reports saying Cabrerra is gonna get between 3/4 so ti would be a no brainer to sign him at that). I assume Castillo gets more like 5-6. Couldn't see him getting more. Thomas -6 mill Lee - 5 mill Everett - 5 mill Crede - Min Fullmer - 1 mill Harris - Min Olivo - Min Bench 2.5 Mill Rotation Colon - 12 mill Loaiza - 3.5 Mill Buehrle - 3-4 mill (He'll probably get less) Garland - 1.5 mill Scho - 1 mill or so Bullpen Marte - 2 mill (Just an estimate...it coudl be less...don't know if his arb eligible yet or not) Sully - 3 mill (Maybe a bit less...I don't see them taking his option) Gordon - 4 mill (He's gonna get a raise...could be more...not worth more, imo) Hawkins - 4 mill Wunsch - 750 K Other - 750 K (Unless you go with Munoz or someone..then less) Total = 59 MILLION I have no idea how much of Koch's, and Konerko's contracts would have to get paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 Ya, that isnt much at all for that good of a team. I would love to see that team here next season. Mainly I would want the Castillo-Cabrera combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Ya, that isnt much at all for that good of a team. I would love to see that team here next season. Mainly I would want the Castillo-Cabrera combo. The Sox could potentially make it cheaper by inserting one young starter from the Magglio trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 KW better realize what Castillo-Cabrera would do for this team. They aren't guys who swing for the fences, they get on base, have speed, and can play D. It would be sad if KW doesn't sign these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 I'd like to see a better closer. One big problem, how many teams are lining up asking KW about Koch? He has zero trade value. Maggs will get you something but I'd rather hang on to Maggs than trust KW to get the right guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 I'd like to see a better closer. One big problem, how many teams are lining up asking KW about Koch? He has zero trade value. Maggs will get you something but I'd rather hang on to Maggs than trust KW to get the right guy. I still say he has trade value. Foulke is gonna be out there for a lot, but some team is gonna look for a setup man and if the Sox pay 2 (making him a 4 mill guy or so) someone will take a chance and give you something potentially productive in return. Get a pen consiting of Marte, Hawkins, and one of Gordon/Sully and I'd be incredibly happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 That team would also have a great imporvment on defense from this year. Castillo and Cabrera up the middle would be huge. With Everett over to right, and Willie/Reed in center. That would be a very good defense. Thats a given...I'd like this team more like the Marlins everyday lineup. Great defense...great speed...solid hitters. Don't need to be exact replicas, but it starts with having a great top of the order. Having good table setters puts you in position to win a lot of low scoring games cause you can manufacture runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 I'd like to see a better closer. One big problem, how many teams are lining up asking KW about Koch? He has zero trade value. Maggs will get you something but I'd rather hang on to Maggs than trust KW to get the right guy. I still say he has trade value. Foulke is gonna be out there for a lot, but some team is gonna look for a setup man and if the Sox pay 2 (making him a 4 mill guy or so) someone will take a chance and give you something potentially productive in return. Get a pen consiting of Marte, Hawkins, and one of Gordon/Sully and I'd be incredibly happy. I'd love to have LaTroy Hawkins in the Sox pen. However I think the Yankees will get him. A pen consisting of Marte and Hawkins is just nasty alone, but adding Gordon, Sully and if Koch returns to his old form is just down right filthy. If Boston doesn't re-sign David Ortiz I think the Sox should go after him, and attempt to trade Konerko and let Thomas walk. Ortiz would be a good fit to this team, a new shortstop would be helpful also. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 a new shortstop would be helpful also. Ideally Orlando Cabrera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 a new shortstop would be helpful also. Ideally Orlando Cabrera. Either that or we wait to see who takes Matsui and we try to work out a deal for their back-up. This time it hopefully won't be Royce Clayton. Does anyone know where Matsui is going? CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 If we don't sign Colon, do we use that money to fill out our rotation or sign position players like Cabrera? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 a new shortstop would be helpful also. Ideally Orlando Cabrera. Either that or we wait to see who takes Matsui and we try to work out a deal for their back-up. This time it hopefully won't be Royce Clayton. Does anyone know where Matsui is going? CWSOX45 Anaheim, San Diego and Baltimore are possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 If we don't sign Colon, do we use that money to fill out our rotation or sign position players like Cabrera? I'd hope to use it on both. Go for Ponson...then the difference could get you Caberra. 4 mill right off the bat will get you Orlando. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 If we don't sign Colon, do we use that money to fill out our rotation or sign position players like Cabrera? Edit your post to..... "When we don't sign Colon....." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 The team from the 1st post would be very good. I second the idea of Castillo and Cabrera up the middle(I have been saying that for about the past week). Some minor changes that I would make to YOUR DREAM TEAM are the following. Replace Harris with Rowand. By your name I assume that you are a big Harris fan, but he has yet to show that he can hit major league hitting and looks more like a utility IF/OF off the bench. I think you should let both Alomars and Graffy walk. There is no reason to spend that much money on a bench when you can get similar production for younger players from within the Sox minor league system(Miles, Gload, Burke, Rivera, ect). Your team would be a little too much for JR liking, but not TOO unrealistic. It would also have enough talent to win 90+ games and possibly go far in the playoffs. Getting rid of Konerko and Koch will be hard to do. I have a bad feeling that Koch will be back no matter what unless the Sox pay at least half of his salary AND get little in return. Trading Konerko is a little more likely, but they might also have to pay some of his salary AND get little in return. "10-12 mill for your up the middle combo (It could be less..I've heard a few reports saying Cabrerra is gonna get between 3/4 so ti would be a no brainer to sign him at that). I assume Castillo gets more like 5-6. Couldn't see him getting more. " I think Cabrera will cost 5-6M/yr and Castillo will make 6-7M.yr. Casillo and Cabrera up the middle will probably cost 12M/yr. Cabrera is the guy that teams who cant afford Matsui and Tejada will go after which should up his value. Castillo will out a doubt is the best 2B on the market. "Thomas -6 mill" Assuming he takes his 6M/yr option. If he wants his 8M/yr option, than he might be gone. "Lee - 5 mill" Lee will probably get at least 6M/yr after the year he had. "Everett - 5 mill" No way do you get Everett for 5M/yr. He got 9M/yr this year, and while that is more then he is worth. He will probably get at least 8M/yr on the open market. "Colon - 12 mill" I dont think Colon will be back with his agent saying he is looking for 13-15M/yr. Besides I think it would be a better investment to sign LHernandez for about 6M/yr. He put up almost identical numbers to Colon last year. I think it was a career year for him, but his 4.20 career ERA is respectible and he is a workhorse just like Colon. That will save you about 6M/yr to invest in other areas(the middle infield that everyone wants, maybe resigning Everett, improving the pen). After thinking it over this is the lineup I would like to see. 1) Castillo 2B(6M/yr) 2) Cabrera SS(5M/yr) 3) Lee LF(6M/yr) 4) Everett RF(8M/yr) 5) Konerko DH(8M/yr) 6) Spiezio 1B(3M/yr) 7) Crede 3B(500K/yr) 8) Rowand CF(500K/yr) 9) Olivo C(500K/yr) 1) Buehrle LH(3M/yr) 2) LHernandez RH(6M/yr) 3) Loiaza RH(3.5M/yr) 4) Garland(1M/yr) 5) Shoey(1M/yr) 1) Hawkins RH(4M/yr) 2) Koch RH(6M/yr) - impossible to move his contract with the number of quality relievers on the market 3) Marte LH(1M/yr) 4) Wunsch LH(1M/yr) 5) Ginter RH(500K/yr) 6) Wright RH(500K/yr) 1) Miles IF(500K/yr) 2) Harris IF/OF(500K/yr) 3) Burke/Rivera C(500K/yr) 4-5) Either from the minors or cheap FA(1M/yr combined) I figure that this team would cost about 64-65M/yr which is realistic. I would love to get rid of Konerko and/or Koch, but I think it is near impossible to do it without receiving a big contract in return and/or eating some of their salary. Plus you aren't going to get much in return, so I think the Sox best chance is to keep both and hope that they revert back to their old ways. I think the Sox should trade Maggs and get 2 or 3 very good prospects in the upper minors(at least 1 of which being a starting pitcher. The offense wont have as much power, but Cabrera and Castillo improve OBP and speed, which are 2 areas that are really lacking. You still have possible 5 20+ HR hitters in the middle as well. LHernandez would be a SLIGHT decrease from Colon AND Loiaza will probably slide some, but the Sox should get a SLIGHT increase from Garland and Buehrle AND a DRASTIC increase from the 5th spot with Shoey. The defense would be one of the best in the game. The bullpen could improve drasticly IF Koch can find his old self. I just wish JR would take a chance and increase the payroll to about 70M/yr, so the Sox could put enoguh talent on the field to win. The current roster just needs a little tinkering, but with a 60M/yr limit it is hard to find all the right pieces. In reality look for the Sox to be active in trades, but not that active on the FA market. I have a feeling a few big salaries will be traded. We will have to wait and see. Thats the fun of the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Does anyone know where Matsui is going? CWSOX45 I think it's safe to say that it won't be Chicago's SouthSide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 1) Castillo 2B(6M/yr) 2) Cabrera SS(5M/yr) 3) Lee LF(6M/yr) 4) Everett RF(8M/yr) 5) Konerko DH(8M/yr) 6) Spiezio 1B(3M/yr) 7) Crede 3B(500K/yr) 8) Rowand CF(500K/yr) 9) Olivo C(500K/yr) 1) Buehrle LH(3M/yr) 2) LHernandez RH(6M/yr) 3) Loiaza RH(3.5M/yr) 4) Garland(1M/yr) 5) Shoey(1M/yr) 1) Hawkins RH(4M/yr) 2) Koch RH(6M/yr) - impossible to move his contract with the number of quality relievers on the market 3) Marte LH(1M/yr) 4) Wunsch LH(1M/yr) 5) Ginter RH(500K/yr) 6) Wright RH(500K/yr) 1) Miles IF(500K/yr) 2) Harris IF/OF(500K/yr) 3) Burke/Rivera C(500K/yr) 4-5) Either from the minors or cheap FA(1M/yr combined) That team would be great too, and also more realistic than mine. Also, I just put Harris in CF because I like him and his range in CF is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I'd like to see a better closer. One big problem, how many teams are lining up asking KW about Koch? He has zero trade value. Maggs will get you something but I'd rather hang on to Maggs than trust KW to get the right guy. Koch is untradeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I'd like to see a better closer. One big problem, how many teams are lining up asking KW about Koch? He has zero trade value. Maggs will get you something but I'd rather hang on to Maggs than trust KW to get the right guy. Koch is untradeable. Too bad there's not another idiot GM out there like KW huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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