Pretty incredible Sox gate numbers from 2016

[caulfield12]

I can't tell 100% if these numbers are originating from Forbes or Ticket City.  Note:  it doesn't including parking revenues, concessions, souvenirs/merchandising, etc.

In 2016, when the White Sox drew 1,746 million, they had the lowest gate revenue ($53 million) and lowest average ticket price ($30.30) in the major leagues.   MLB teams put 31% of their gate into the MLB pool and then that gets dispersed back out to teams evenly.

They had the LARGEST net gain after ticket revenue sharing, with the rest of MLB subsidizing their net gate receipts to the tune of +$33.625 million.  This was the largest percentage gain (a whopping 63.6%) of all MLB teams and ahead of even the Rays and A's.  (Another interesting note is how low the LA Angels are on this list.)

On the other hand, the Chicago Cubs had $487 million in ticket revenues, had to share $151 million with the rest of MLB (31%), and still ended up with $386 million (after essentially "losing" $101 million in this transaction).

Even with the subsidy from other teams, the White Sox were ONLY at $86 million and the Cubs were at $386 million, A DIFFERENCE of $300 MILLION!!!  Even the Yankees, Red Sox and Cardinals are WAY behind the Cubs...just can't believe that.   

(Another note:  attendance fell to 1.629 million in 2017 and is roughly on pace for 1.3-1.4 million in 2018.  Well, the actual pace right now is for just 1.25 million but that HAS TO increase with May/June/June/August weather in Chicago and school out, doesn't it?)

This makes the argument/s for signing or not signing Machado, Harper, Kershaw, Arenado, etc., even more fraught with either peril or potential upside as well.  We've been saying for a decade now that ticket revenues aren't as important, and that's true because of the regional broadcasting rights deals and MLBAM, but we might need to re-examine that thought in light of this information.

 

Source for information:

https://www.royalsreview.com/2018/2/6/16961182/estimating-how-much-money-the-royals-make

 

Using average ticket price and 2016 attendance:

Edited May 14, 2018 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

You also include parking costs at the stadium, which almost everyone who attends a game shares the burden of in some capacity. Assuming the 2,557,712 in attendance for the Royals in 2016 shared a car amongst two other fans (and $15 a car), that is $12,788,590 in additional revenue (with 69% kept but then being returned 3% of the total pool).

This would seem to be ONE strong source of revenue for the White Sox because the White Sox have/had pretty steep parking prices until recently (unless that has also changed?). They also have total control and don't share any of it (with the City of Chicago), correct?

 

For what it's worth, coming into 2016, the seven CHEAPEST places (2 tickets, 2 hot dogs, 2 beers, parking) to see a game were Anaheim, Dodger Stadium, AZ, Colorado, Minnesota, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh.  The seven most expensive were Fenway, Yankee Stadium, Wrigley, Rogers Center, Safeco, Citi Field and SF.

https://www.cbsnews.com/media/the-7-most-and-least-expensive-stadiums-to-watch-a-major-league-baseball-game/15/

Something seems to be way off with those White Sox quoted ticket prices...or it's simply that the concessions and parking for US Cellular Field/Guaranteed Rate are/were considerably more expensive than the (rapidly) falling ticket prices (comparatively).

Edited May 14, 2018 by caulfield12

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

You also include parking costs at the stadium, which almost everyone who attends a game shares the burden of in some capacity. Assuming the 2,557,712 in attendance for the Royals in 2016 shared a car amongst two other fans (and $15 a car), that is $12,788,590 in additional revenue (with 69% kept but then being returned 3% of the total pool).

This would seem to be ONE strong source of revenue for the White Sox because the White Sox have/had pretty steep parking prices until recently (unless that has also changed?). They also have total control and don't share any of it (with the City of Chicago), correct?

 

For what it's worth, coming into 2016, the seven CHEAPEST places (2 tickets, 2 hot dogs, 2 beers, parking) to see a game were Anaheim, Dodger Stadium, AZ, Colorado, Minnesota, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh.  The seven most expensive were Fenway, Yankee Stadium, Wrigley, Rogers Center, Safeco, Citi Field and SF.

https://www.cbsnews.com/media/the-7-most-and-least-expensive-stadiums-to-watch-a-major-league-baseball-game/15/

Something seems to be way off with those White Sox quoted ticket prices...or it's simply that the concessions and parking for US Cellular Field/Guaranteed Rate are/were considerably more expensive than the (rapidly) falling ticket prices (comparatively).

From what I remember, the Sox have some of the most expensive parking in baseball. I think I remember a lot of teams being less than $20, with the Brewers being like $7 and I think the Rays being free.

[Sarava]

Interesting that 3 of the 4 bottom teams are teams that share large markets and they are the lesser team in those markets (in terms of popularity).

[ptatc]

23 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Interesting that 3 of the 4 bottom teams are teams that share large markets and they are the lesser team in those markets (in terms of popularity).

This really isnt surprising because the gain referred to here is percent gain. Of course the team that draw the most fans and have the highest revenue are at the bottom. They made the most money so the revnue sharing part is going to be the least percent gain. Conversely the sox who had the lowest gate total will have a higher percent becausethey started out with the lowest. Its a purely mathematical discussion and is really somewhat useless.

Look at the list as a whole, the clubs that made the least amount of money on gate are at the top and the ones that made the most are at the bottom. This is because the 31% sharing is a larger part of 86 million and a lesser part of 386 million. It has nothing to do with any other source of income like parkingor concessions.

[caulfield12]

This is the year we started out 23-10...were legitimately trying to compete, and were still at the very botttom.

23rd-26th, maybe 27th, that’s what I was expecting.

Not 30th.

[bmags]

I know why I love baseball, to count the amount of people watching it next to me.

[LittleHurt05]

"The lowest average ticket price in MLB."

   ***paging greg***

[WBWSF]

9 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

I can't tell 100% if these numbers are originating from Forbes or Ticket City.  Note:  it doesn't including parking revenues, concessions, souvenirs/merchandising, etc.

In 2016, when the White Sox drew 1,746 million, they had the lowest gate revenue ($53 million) and lowest average ticket price ($30.30) in the major leagues.   MLB teams put 31% of their gate into the MLB pool and then that gets dispersed back out to teams evenly.

They had the LARGEST net gain after ticket revenue sharing, with the rest of MLB subsidizing their net gate receipts to the tune of +$33.625 million.  This was the largest percentage gain (a whopping 63.6%) of all MLB teams and ahead of even the Rays and A's.  (Another interesting note is how low the LA Angels are on this list.)

On the other hand, the Chicago Cubs had $487 million in ticket revenues, had to share $151 million with the rest of MLB (31%), and still ended up with $386 million (after essentially "losing" $101 million in this transaction).

Even with the subsidy from other teams, the White Sox were ONLY at $86 million and the Cubs were at $386 million, A DIFFERENCE of $300 MILLION!!!  Even the Yankees, Red Sox and Cardinals are WAY behind the Cubs...just can't believe that.   

(Another note:  attendance fell to 1.629 million in 2017 and is roughly on pace for 1.3-1.4 million in 2018.  Well, the actual pace right now is for just 1.25 million but that HAS TO increase with May/June/June/August weather in Chicago and school out, doesn't it?)

This makes the argument/s for signing or not signing Machado, Harper, Kershaw, Arenado, etc., even more fraught with either peril or potential upside as well.  We've been saying for a decade now that ticket revenues aren't as important, and that's true because of the regional broadcasting rights deals and MLBAM, but we might need to re-examine that thought in light of this information.

 

Source for information:

https://www.royalsreview.com/2018/2/6/16961182/estimating-how-much-money-the-royals-make

 

Using average ticket price and 2016 attendance:

Interesting post. Keep in mind that last month Forbes said the White Sox franchise is valued at 1.5 BILLION DOLLARS.(14th in MLB) They also said the White Sox  bring in $260 million dollars a year. The team payroll this year is $60 million dollars. In other words this team is making some serious money.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, LittleHurt05 said:

"The lowest average ticket price in MLB."

   ***paging greg***

One of the wonderful new additions to this boards technology is that you can actually tag someone like so @greg775, so that you can be sure they see a thread.

[Jose Abreu]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I know why I love baseball, to count the amount of people watching it next to me.

If this were 1920 then I'd get why people were constantly posting about attendance. It's increasingly irrelevant nowadays

[southsider2k5]

14 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

Interesting post. Keep in mind that last month Forbes said the White Sox franchise is valued at 1.5 BILLION DOLLARS.(14th in MLB) They also said the White Sox  bring in $260 million dollars a year. The team payroll this year is $60 million dollars. In other words this team is making some serious money.

This is wrong.

[caulfield12]

Well, the whole point of the original article was trying to ascertain whether the Royals were losing $30 million this year at a $121 million payroll, breaking even...or actually making about $20-30 million in profit.

There’s a whole different category of roughly $120 million in expenses outside of direct/observable payroll.

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, WBWSF said:

Interesting post. Keep in mind that last month Forbes said the White Sox franchise is valued at 1.5 BILLION DOLLARS.(14th in MLB) They also said the White Sox  bring in $260 million dollars a year. The team payroll this year is $60 million dollars. In other words this team is making some serious money.

True because the players on the field are the only ones they need to pay. It's not like they have scouts or front office workers or tickets sales people or anything.

[ptatc]

57 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

If this were 1920 then I'd get why people were constantly posting about attendance. It's increasingly irrelevant nowadays

KW always had a good response for this. The attendance is the one unknown variable in the revenue. The advertising, broadcasts rights and such are know before the season. KW said the attendance can determine if they can add payroll at the trading deadline because that could increase their revenue more or less than what they expected.

This was always misconstrued as "if the fans don't show up, we won't add players." But it was purely based on economics.

[southsider2k5]

37 minutes ago, ptatc said:

KW always had a good response for this. The attendance is the one unknown variable in the revenue. The advertising, broadcasts rights and such are know before the season. KW said the attendance can determine if they can add payroll at the trading deadline because that could increase their revenue more or less than what they expected.

This was always misconstrued as "if the fans don't show up, we won't add players." But it was purely based on economics.

I see some triggered posters in your future.

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I see some triggered posters in your future.

?