Jump to content

8 games back


Buehrle>Wood

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Doubt that

They'll likely get much more at the deadline then the offseason but nowhere near what they would get if Machado had control.

Per Dan Duquette (MLBTR):

Brad Brach and Zach Britton could end up getting the most attention, as Duquette predicted “a robust market for relief pitchers.”  The market for position players is harder to predict, with Duquette not knowing how things will fare in regards to a Manny Machado trade.  “The issue for the Orioles would be, ’Will the Orioles ultimately trade a player who’s on his way to a Triple Crown or possibly MVP season?’” Duquette said. “That’s an issue for the club. And in the offseason, there were some teams interested in Manny, but there wasn’t a lot of talent coming back. Because teams know it’s going to take a lot of money to re-sign Manny.”

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

They'll likely get much more at the deadline then the offseason but nowhere near what they would get if Machado had control.

Per Dan Duquette (MLBTR):

Brad Brach and Zach Britton could end up getting the most attention, as Duquette predicted “a robust market for relief pitchers.”  The market for position players is harder to predict, with Duquette not knowing how things will fare in regards to a Manny Machado trade.  “The issue for the Orioles would be, ’Will the Orioles ultimately trade a player who’s on his way to a Triple Crown or possibly MVP season?’” Duquette said. “That’s an issue for the club. And in the offseason, there were some teams interested in Manny, but there wasn’t a lot of talent coming back. Because teams know it’s going to take a lot of money to re-sign Manny.”

 

When exactly should the Orioles have traded Machado? They were an 89 win playoff team in 2016 and still trying to compete last year (can’t blame them for that). They will get more for Machado in season than they would have last winter so I don’t follow your logic that (1) they held on to him too long and (2) they will get pennies on the dollar for him (I think they will get a very nice haul this July with the way he’s playing). I think they absolutely made the right decision to let it play out until this trade deadline rather than accept a subpar package last winter.

Edited by JUSTgottaBELIEVE
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

That’s EXPLICITLY why they brought in the (relatively expensive) veteran in Castillo instead of giving all the playing time to Smith and Narvaez...

Except Narvaez has been the primary catcher for Gio and Castillo for Lopez.  Maybe they feel there is better chemistry w the Gio battery. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It’s possible.

I can’t remember the exact article, but wasn’t one of Castillo’s strengths supposed to be “pitch framing”?   Of course, the irony is that is one specific skill where Tyler Flowers improved significantly over time, but even the patience of the White Sox wore thin with him.  Nevertheless, he’s had a career resurgence with the Braves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

It’s possible.

I can’t remember the exact article, but wasn’t one of Castillo’s strengths supposed to be “pitch framing”?   Of course, the irony is that is one specific skill where Tyler Flowers improved significantly over time, but even the patience of the White Sox wore thin with him.  Nevertheless, he’s had a career resurgence with the Braves.

Was supposed to be a strength but as of a week ago, Sox and Cubs were two worst in baseball at framing (not sure who was the actual worst)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, one thing’s for sure, not having strong pitch framers is ONE factor for our terrible walk numbers (thinking Gio and Fulmer in particular.)

That said, Giolito’s been battling his mechanics all season long and also has ungodly number of hit batters, wild pitches and passed balls while on the mound.   You could at least understand that with someone like Jordan Hicks throwing 103-105 out there.

One big plus with Castillo is his contract will eventually be easier to move because his offense is pretty darned solid, and teams are always in need of an upgrade from that position, with very few exceptions.

Edited by caulfield12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

When exactly should the Orioles have traded Machado? They were an 89 win playoff team in 2016 and still trying to compete last year (can’t blame them for that). They will get more for Machado in season than they would have last winter so I don’t follow your logic that (1) they held on to him too long and (2) they will get pennies on the dollar for him (I think they will get a very nice haul this July with the way he’s playing). I think they absolutely made the right decision to let it play out until this trade deadline rather than accept a subpar package last winter.

Well the problem with holding onto position players until they are rentals is your sort of at the mercy of the market.

JD Martinez was mentioned earlier well part of the reason why the Tigers got so little is he was a rental the other problem is the Tigers moved him when there were a glut of 1B/DH at the time. That is sort of the problem with Machado. Most playoff teams already have a longterm guy at 3B. Beltre, Donaldson, Moustakas all figure to be available too.

The trade deadline differs from the offseason. The trade deadline is about filling holes you can have an academic argument about how great Machados numbers are and they are you can talk about how much more valuable he is then a 1B/DH as a 3B is but if contending clubs need a 1B/DH thats who they'll target and if they feel they already have their longterm guys at 3B and those that don't - don't want to give up premium prospects what are you left with?

The quote I gave regarding DD sort of exemplifies it. He thinks it's going to be a soft market maybe some team comes in and still blows their socks off but as the guy involved in trade discussions he would be in a better position then anyone to know

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

Well the problem with holding onto position players until they are rentals is your sort of at the mercy of the market.

JD Martinez was mentioned earlier well part of the reason why the Tigers got so little is he was a rental the other problem is the Tigers moved him when there were a glut of 1B/DH at the time. That is sort of the problem with Machado. Most playoff teams already have a longterm guy at 3B. Beltre, Donaldson, Moustakas all figure to be available too.

The trade deadline differs from the offseason. The trade deadline is about filling holes you can have an academic argument about how great Machados numbers are and they are you can talk about how much more valuable he is then a 1B/DH as a 3B is but if contending clubs need a 1B/DH thats who they'll target and if they feel they already have their longterm guys at 3B and those that don't - don't want to give up premium prospects what are you left with?

The quote I gave regarding DD sort of exemplifies it. He thinks it's going to be a soft market maybe some team comes in and still blows their socks off but as the guy involved in trade discussions he would be in a better position then anyone to know

But Machado is playing shortstop this year while on pace for a 9 WAR season. There is no glut of premium shortstops available in this market. I can see just about every NL contender looking for an upgrade at shortstop outside of perhaps the Cardinals and Nationals. The Orioles are going to get a haul for Machado and a DH/OF defensive liability like JD Martinez is not a good comp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

But Machado is playing shortstop this year while on pace for a 9 WAR season. There is no glut of premium shortstops available in this market. I can see just about every NL contender looking for an upgrade at shortstop outside of perhaps the Cardinals and Nationals. The Orioles are going to get a haul for Machado and a DH/OF defensive liability like JD Martinez is not a good comp.

Sure if they view him as an actual SS. UZR/150 -10.2, RngR -3.6

It won't matter if he continues to hit at the pace I guess but he's not a SS.

Edited by wrathofhahn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

Sure if they view him as an actual SS. UZR/150 -10.2, RngR -3.6

It won't matter if he continues to hit at the pace I guess but he's not a SS.

Seems there will be plenty of interest. I think you will surprised by the return. I can GUARANTEE he brings back considerably more than JD Martinez did last year (unless he's injured).

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/05/manny-machado-baltimore-orioles-trade-market-rumors-cubs-indians-red-sox-dodgers-mlb

Edited by JUSTgottaBELIEVE
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

 I can GUARANTEE he brings back considerably more than JD Martinez did last year (unless he's injured).

 

I don't know what the Sox can get, but I agree with you that it will be more than the Tigers got.

Tigers just made a bad, premature trade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I don't know what the Sox can get, but I agree with you that it will be more than the Tigers got.

Tigers just made a bad, premature trade.

Well yes and the fact that Machado is a better all around player than JD. People can trash Manny's defense at SS all they want but even a below average defender at a premium position is much more valuable than a horrendous defender at a non-premium position. Plus Manny has the ability to play SS and 3B whereas JD was barely passable as an OF only (but really he's a DH).

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Well yes and the fact that Machado is a better all around player than JD. People can trash Manny's defense at SS all they want but even a below average defender at a premium position is much more valuable than a horrendous defender at a non-premium position. Plus Manny has the ability to play SS and 3B whereas JD was barely passable as an OF only (but really he's a DH).

Thats true they also probably get more then the offseason but if they traded him last season at the deadline I think with 1.5 years of control they get much more.

Same with Abreu if we don't move him this deadline I don't think we get near as much in the offseason or next years deadline.

Edited by wrathofhahn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As ridiculously horrible as the Sox are they still are only 8 games back. This is what irritates me. We could be doing the rebuild thing and actually still be winning the division. Granted we've had some injury problems, but if the front office didn't sit on its hands all winter, it could have acquired some arms and a bat or two -- guys that wouldn't be blocking anybody. All it would have cost is a few bucks. The only harming of the rebuild in that scenario would be getting a draft pick of 10 or so instead of one or two, big deal. Eight games back with one of the worst teams in modern Sox history, embarrassing. I wish the commish would fine the teams that are tanking. 

If you watch our games or highlights of our games, it's clear the fans who do go to the Cell want to win. They are actively rooting for W's. Eight out! LOL.

Edited by greg775
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, greg775 said:

As ridiculously horrible as the Sox are they still are only 8 games back. This is what irritates me. We could be doing the rebuild thing and actually still be winning the division. Granted we've had some injury problems, but if the front office didn't sit on its hands all winter, it could have acquired some arms and a bat or two -- guys that wouldn't be blocking anybody. All it would have cost is a few bucks. The only harming of the rebuild in that scenario would be getting a draft pick of 10 or so instead of one or two, big deal. Eight games back with one of the worst teams in modern Sox history, embarrassing. I wish the commish would fine the teams that are tanking. 

If you watch our games or highlights of our games, it's clear the fans who do go to the Cell want to win. They are actively rooting for W's. Eight out! LOL.

I agree with you 100%. The front office could have easily added some players during this rebuild.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/21/2018 at 4:01 PM, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

When exactly should the Orioles have traded Machado? They were an 89 win playoff team in 2016 and still trying to compete last year (can’t blame them for that). They will get more for Machado in season than they would have last winter so I don’t follow your logic that (1) they held on to him too long and (2) they will get pennies on the dollar for him (I think they will get a very nice haul this July with the way he’s playing). I think they absolutely made the right decision to let it play out until this trade deadline rather than accept a subpar package last winter.

What were the offers for Machado last winter?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, soxfan2014 said:

Greg and WBWSF are hysterical. You think they could put together a .500 team when rebuilding when they couldn't put together a .500 team when going for it? LMFAO

A big point they are both missing is the only reason the division is still up for grabs is because Cleveland has been much worse than expected. Nobody in the baseball world predicted the Indians to struggle. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said:

A big point they are both missing is the only reason the division is still up for grabs is because Cleveland has been much worse than expected. Nobody in the baseball world predicted the Indians to struggle. 

Last year, they started out 31-31 and won over 100 games. Still early really. Plenty of time to heat up and run away with the division.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...