Jose Abreu

[soxforlife05]

On 5/24/2018 at 3:52 PM, Dam8610 said:

Collins, Zavala, Dunning, Hansen, the few pen arms in AA and AAA, the crapload of talent in WS and Kanny, and the #4 overall pick on June 4.

And the #1 overall pick next year

[Dam8610]

39 minutes ago, soxforlife05 said:

And the #1 overall pick next year

Unless it's a really advanced college bat, I wouldn't count on them being up by 2020.

[greg775]

6 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

If you think his market is so limited, then what would be the harm in trading him and resigning him in 2020?

I don't buy the re-signing thing. That doesn't seem like it happens very much.

[greg775]

5 hours ago, Timmy U said:

Why would he be older than his listed age?  I get it’s been a problem in the Dominican where there’s plenty of incentive to buy a new identity both for baseball reasons and unique situations on the island.  (For example, discrimination against people of Haitian descent.). But Cubans Jose’s age had no hope of going to America to play baseball and Cuba’s a dictatorship.  Way harder to get false documents in a police state than it is in the D.R.  Plus, he got famous in Cuba as a very young man.  It’s possible he’s older than his listed age, but I doubt it.  Is there any evidence?

No evidence. I just read some poster saying somebody wrote he might be older than it says on his baseball card. I hope he's the exact age he's supposed to be. Look, he's hitting great again this year. So taking the emotion out of it ... Mr. Hahn is probably thinking seriously about trading him at the deadline this season. It'd be just like Sale. Trading an all star for probably 3 prospects. Will they be top prospects? We shall see. I bet you right now the true odds of him being dealt are 50-50. Especially if what you guys say is true about him commanding 18 to 20 mill a year. That's not the Sox style to pay that jack, especially in this fan friendly age of fans loving prospects. I think it's 50-50 he gets dealt; maybe 60-40 cause of the rebuild thing and the fact fans won't give him any grief over a deal that involves at least 3 prospects. Personally I want to keep him.

[southsider2k5]

9 hours ago, greg775 said:

No evidence. I just read some poster saying somebody wrote he might be older than it says on his baseball card. I hope he's the exact age he's supposed to be. Look, he's hitting great again this year. So taking the emotion out of it ... Mr. Hahn is probably thinking seriously about trading him at the deadline this season. It'd be just like Sale. Trading an all star for probably 3 prospects. Will they be top prospects? We shall see. I bet you right now the true odds of him being dealt are 50-50. Especially if what you guys say is true about him commanding 18 to 20 mill a year. That's not the Sox style to pay that jack, especially in this fan friendly age of fans loving prospects. I think it's 50-50 he gets dealt; maybe 60-40 cause of the rebuild thing and the fact fans won't give him any grief over a deal that involves at least 3 prospects. Personally I want to keep him.

Just like the other 32,000 posts, we can stop reading here.

[ron883]

I would be ecstatic if we could get some of the aforementioned Rockies prospects for Abreu. I know some people couldn't handle it, but there is no reason to half ass a rebuild. Go full burn and destroy, Sam Hinkie style. Anybody with a questionable white sox future 2 seasons from now should be bait. Abreu and Nate Jones are the only ones with value lol. Maybe some other bullpen vets bolster their value pre-deadline.

[Jack Parkman]

13 minutes ago, Hot FiRe said:

I would be ecstatic if we could get some of the aforementioned Rockies prospects for Abreu. I know some people couldn't handle it, but there is no reason to half ass a rebuild. Go full burn and destroy, Sam Hinkie style. Anybody with a questionable white sox future 2 seasons from now should be bait. Abreu and Nate Jones are the only ones with value lol. Maybe some other bullpen vets bolster their value pre-deadline.

Even though it isn't the greatest return in the world, and the players would have less than the full 7 seasons of control, I wouldn't mind a return of something like Hoffman(who I know the Sox liked in 2014, but Rodon fell into their laps) and either Tapia or Dahl. These are both former T100 guys in a roster crunch in Colorado. 

[Chicago White Sox]

26 minutes ago, Hot FiRe said:

I would be ecstatic if we could get some of the aforementioned Rockies prospects for Abreu. I know some people couldn't handle it, but there is no reason to half ass a rebuild. Go full burn and destroy, Sam Hinkie style. Anybody with a questionable white sox future 2 seasons from now should be bait. Abreu and Nate Jones are the only ones with value lol. Maybe some other bullpen vets bolster their value pre-deadline.

This is baseball, not the NBA.  You don’t need to rebuild Sam Hinkie style and rip your organization to the ground year after year until you finally get enough stars.  We are burning through service time of a guy who has the potential to be a top 5 player in the game.  I’m not saying that Jose is untradable, but losing a guy who is a top 30 hitter will likely extend the rebuild timeline and cost you precious Moncada years.  And that doesn’t even include the clubhouse impacts which may or may not be signicant.  IMO you have to be blown away to move Abreu to take on that risk.

[Dam8610]

12 hours ago, greg775 said:

I don't buy the re-signing thing. That doesn't seem like it happens very much.

Well, you know, with how much the White Sox have been behaving within their historical norms recently, this is an entirely reasonable position for you to take.

[wrathofhahn]

6 hours ago, Hot FiRe said:

I would be ecstatic if we could get some of the aforementioned Rockies prospects for Abreu. I know some people couldn't handle it, but there is no reason to half ass a rebuild. Go full burn and destroy, Sam Hinkie style. Anybody with a questionable white sox future 2 seasons from now should be bait. Abreu and Nate Jones are the only ones with value lol. Maybe some other bullpen vets bolster their value pre-deadline.

Agreed on all fronts. People are too emotionally invested in Abreu they aren't thinking it through rationally at the end of his deal he'll be a 33 year old DH. Why are we worried about whether he resigns here or not at that point?

Most of his value is in the fact he can still play 1B and is cost controlled for 1.5 years we'd be fools to not take advantage of that if at all possible

[caulfield12]

If we had a decent fielding 1b, the game yesterday would still be going on...

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

Would be a good way to piss off the franchise... 

Stop being emotional ?

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, wrathofhahn said:

Agreed on all fronts. People are too emotionally invested in Abreu they aren't thinking it through rationally at the end of his deal he'll be a 33 year old DH. Why are we worried about whether he resigns here or not at that point?

Most of his value is in the fact he can still play 1B and is cost controlled for 1.5 years we'd be fools to not take advantage of that if at all possible

His value is in that he puts up .300/30/100 and .900 OPS year in and year out, while also being willing to teach these kids how to be major leaguers by example.  Both are super important. 

[Timmy U]

27 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

His value is in that he puts up .300/30/100 and .900 OPS year in and year out, while also being willing to teach these kids how to be major leaguers by example.  Both are super important. 

Yeah, and you’re not going to get that much for him.  Salary relief?  Who cares?  Sox have a minuscule payroll that’s about to shed Shields as well.  If Eloy were a first baseman, maybe, but trading Abreu for a couple of B/C level prospects, meh.

[wrathofhahn]

51 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

His value is in that he puts up .300/30/100 and .900 OPS year in and year out, while also being willing to teach these kids how to be major leaguers by example.  Both are super important. 

Will he in two years? Will he still be playing 1B even if he does do you want to sign an extension starting from age 33 onwards.

For me the answer is no. Unless his value is so low that a comp pick would be worth more he should be moved now his value will never be higher and if people were honest about things they'd admit he doesn't fit the timetable either.

[southsider2k5]

24 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Will he in two years? Will he still be playing 1B even if he does do you want to sign an extension starting from age 33 onwards.

For me the answer is no. Unless his value is so low that a comp pick would be worth more he should be moved now his value will never be higher and if people were honest about things they'd admit he doesn't fit the timetable either.

In two years, yes.

[Jose Abreu]

Nice to see his luck finally even out. .319/.382/.560 now. 

[wrathofhahn]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

In two years, yes.

I disagree with that I do agree however with your assessment that there is some added value of his leadership and clubhouse presence it just won't override what we could get back.

I also hope he continues to go on a tear because the better he hits the more likely we are to get a big package back for him. They'll be some teams in need of a 1B this deadline. I named 8 of them earlier. 

I don't think this will be a JDM situation a bunch of 1B/DH on contending clubs really are struggling right now.

[greg775]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

His value is in that he puts up .300/30/100 and .900 OPS year in and year out, while also being willing to teach these kids how to be major leaguers by example.  Both are super important. 

Good post. I'd like to add he's been phenomenal as a White Sox and is ultra consistent. All he does is put up numbers. Stud.

[ron883]

6 hours ago, Tony said:

Would be a good way to piss off the franchise... 

Yoan is a big boy. He also isn't the GM. This is a business and he would get over it. Hell, I'm sure Jose would be happy to go to a contender while building his free agency value by slugging the hell out of the ball in Colorado. He would talk with the young guys in the clubhouse and let them know it's for the better. The dude will have a job with the Sox when he retires.

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

I disagree with that I do agree however with your assessment that there is some added value of his leadership and clubhouse presence it just won't override what we could get back.

I also hope he continues to go on a tear because the better he hits the more likely we are to get a big package back for him. They'll be some teams in need of a 1B this deadline. I named 8 of them earlier. 

I don't think this will be a JDM situation a bunch of 1B/DH on contending clubs really are struggling right now.

Why?  What of his skillset is going to be the issue?  You can look around baseball and see similar styles of hitters who age into their middle to late 30's just fine.

[Sarava]

I think the Sox should be past the sell-off stage of this rebuild. Not that you won't occasionally do it with certain players in certain situations. But a guy who is a mentor, a leader, the best player by a mile, and shows no signs of slowing down - no you don't even consider moving him.

[greg775]

7 minutes ago, Tony said:

Real talk:

The Sox had zero issue trading Sale, Eaton and Q. Most of us didn’t know if they would have the stones to actually make the move, and not only did they do it, they traded Q to th Cubs. Additionally, seemingly all of us were happy with the returns on all three players.

 The rumors were strong on both Abreu and Garcia last offseason, but we saw 1B/OF market dry up. Clearly, the Sox didn’t see the value in moving either. 

 You can be in the camp of trading Abreu, as I’ve said before, I can see the argument. What I don’t agree with is trading him just to trade him because you don’t think he’ll be in his prime during the Sox “window”. Does Robert sign with the Sox if Abreu wasn’t on this team? I don’t know that answer, but neither do you. I don’t know what he’s like in the locker room, but I know what I’ve read. I know I’ve seen him at children’s hospitals multiple times, representing the Sox with class. And most importantly, I’ve seen him be an All-Star level, middle of the order hitter for the Sox since the moment he got to Chicago. 

Sorry, there is more that goes into it than just “He’s going to be old and expensive when the window opens, trade him for whatever.” If you think it’s that simple, you don’t have a firm grasp on the reality of sports.

Post of the year

[Y2Jimmy0]

9 hours ago, Tony said:

Real talk:

The Sox had zero issue trading Sale, Eaton and Q. Most of us didn’t know if they would have the stones to actually make the move, and not only did they do it, they traded Q to th Cubs. Additionally, seemingly all of us were happy with the returns on all three players.

The rumors were strong on both Abreu and Garcia last offseason, but we saw 1B/OF market dry up. Clearly, the Sox didn’t see the value in moving either. 

You can be in the camp of trading Abreu, as I’ve said before, I can see the argument. What I don’t agree with is trading him just to trade him because you don’t think he’ll be in his prime during the Sox “window”. Does Robert sign with the Sox if Abreu wasn’t on this team? I don’t know that answer, but neither do you. I don’t know what he’s like in the locker room, but I know what I’ve read. I know I’ve seen him at children’s hospitals multiple times, representing the Sox with class. And most importantly, I’ve seen him be an All-Star level, middle of the order hitter for the Sox since the moment he got to Chicago. 

Sorry, there is more that goes into it than just “He’s going to be old and expensive when the window opens, trade him for whatever.” If you think it’s that simple, you don’t have a firm grasp on the reality of sports.

This is all totally dependent on what type of contract he wants. Carlos Santana just signed a 3/60 deal in off-season. Abreu is better than him though. Jose is the best 1B in the AL. Some thing that trading him would be crazy. I think it's crazy to not do something. If they plan on keeping him, then I'd be fine with that but until I hear about extension talks, I'm going to assume they will trade him. On the other hand, if they are going to trade him, it should be done at this year's deadline with 1.5 years of control. Should be an interesting situation. 

[ron883]

Another aspect I really didn't consider is the comp pick. That is a solid get for the sox. Is his leadership + comp pick worth more than what the sox get in return? They would really have to be blown away by a trade offer.