Jose Abreu

[soxfan49]

Can't we just combine this thread with the "Abreu- will he stay or go?" thread?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, wrathofhahn said:

You can add some other names to the list. Astros. Mariners. Nationals

Could probably add the Dodgers too if the Rockies want him. Keep Bellinger in CF and it opens a spot for Abreu. Maybe look at catcher Will Smith as one of the pieces to get back.

[southsider2k5]

11 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

You can add some other names to the list. Astros. Mariners. Nationals

The Astros might have a need, but I also see them as the least likely team to pay up based on how they value players.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

It shouldn't there is a reason why only 11% of MLB hitters (FG qualified) are 33+ years old and only 4% are 33+ years old and have wRC+ of 110 or greater.

I think you make valid arguments .

It's not in the post I quoted but you are right about Sox management having to be smarter. That's the part that worries me most. Their depth consists of mostly 1B/DH types who have almost no ability to play the field at all. Look at Delmonico, Davidson Gillaspie, Skole and Palka and you might realize thede guys might all be auditioning for Abreu's role and maybe that's what Hahn had in mind all along. But even in the minors you can possibly add guys like Collins , Burger even Jimenez to the list of all hit no field guys . I know some of that is to be determined .

The Sox also seem to be more adverse to the versatility ( brought up in the ESPN article) issue that needs to be addressed soon. Yolmer is the only one currently who can play multiple positions . If the Sox were more open to say trying Anderson in CF or Moncada at third it makes the Sox more versatile which is essential in having a short bench with all the relief pitchers necessary in todays game.

If the Sox truly want to help their young starters they need to start getting better fielders  and more versatile athletes and stop worrying about babying the ones they have. Versatility helps a team in so many ways.

 

[beautox]

7 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And if that’s the case, by all means move him.  I love me some Abreu and would love to find a way to keep him with the White Sox long-term, but if market conditions provide us with an opportunity to add multiple high-end talents then it will be hard not to say goodbye to him.  My only beef is with the notion of getting rid of him for some fringe prospects or salary relief.  He’s a top 20 hitter in the game and those guys aren’t easily replaced.  Moving him better be on our terms.

I'm with you; Hahn won't move him for scraps when the trade deadline approaches if Abreu is continuing to do his thing I think he will be one of the most talked about names and living in front range I can tell you locally the rockies fanbase is going to put pressure on their FO to make a move. Dodgers could get creative as others mentioned by putting Bellinger in the OF to bring in Jose's bat and at the very least drive up the price for Colorado. The mariners are going to be interested but they don't have the chips, the nationals are doing ok with Adams/Reynolds and the red sox while a good fit as well don't have the pieces to make it happen.

[caulfield12]

9 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I think you make valid arguments .

It's not in the post I quoted but you are right about Sox management having to be smarter. That's the part that worries me most. Their depth consists of mostly 1B/DH types who have almost no ability to play the field at all. Look at Delmonico, Davidson Gillaspie, Skole and Palka and you might realize thede guys might all be auditioning for Abreu's role and maybe that's what Hahn had in mind all along. But even in the minors you can possibly add guys like Collins , Burger even Jimenez to the list of all hit no field guys . I know some of that is to be determined .

The Sox also seem to be more adverse to the versatility ( brought up in the ESPN article) issue that needs to be addressed soon. Yolmer is the only one currently who can play multiple positions . If the Sox were more open to say trying Anderson in CF or Moncada at third it makes the Sox more versatile which is essential in having a short bench with all the relief pitchers necessary in todays game.

If the Sox truly want to help their young starters they need to start getting better fielders  and more versatile athletes and stop worrying about babying the ones they have. Versatility helps a team in so many ways.

 

Leury Garcia has a ton of flexibility and we control his rights through 2020...Cordell MIGHT have the ability to play 3B as well as all the outfield positions.

This is (also) another argument for either Madrigal (or India) over Bohm...that they're capable of playing multiple positions on the field.

I guess it also depends on how confident we are in Davidson playing extensively at 3B (or 1B).   But having Anderson, Moncada, Madrigal/India, Yolmer and Leury Garcia all being able to play 3+ positions would be tremendously helpful in terms of roster construction.

From your list of names (mostly offense, limited defense), you could reasonably add Seby Zavala as well.  So that's a total of eight names for DH...and doesn't even include Micker Adolfo, who's yet another name that fits there (depending ultimately on how his elbow rehab turns out.)   So NINE.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Leury Garcia has a ton of flexibility and we control his rights through 2020...Cordell MIGHT have the ability to play 3B as well as all the outfield positions.

This is (also) another argument for either Madrigal (or India) over Bohm...that they're capable of playing multiple positions on the field.

I guess it also depends on how confident we are in Davidson playing extensively at 3B (or 1B).   But having Anderson, Moncada, Madrigal/India, Yolmer and Leury Garcia all being able to play 3+ positions would be tremendously helpful in terms of roster construction.

From your list of names (mostly offense, limited defense), you could reasonably add Seby Zavala as well.  So that's a total of eight names for DH...and doesn't even include Micker Adolfo, who's yet another name that fits there (depending ultimately on how his elbow rehab turns out.)   So NINE.

 

I wouldn't count on Leury  some of the big names need to be versatile sort of like Zobrist and even Kris Bryant. I know most players are entrenched in one position but like now Moncada could be moved around some Anderson too .But realistically those things have to start in the minors. Boston didnt seem afraid to move Moncada around . Didnt they have him playing 3rd when they had him ?  I know most would be against that , let him  concentrate on hitting and all that . But sometimes learning and playing multiple positions might keep your mind off hitting woes and do things more naturally. they way they have come to you all your life .

The good new is Anderson isn't against playing in the outfield if it comes to that. https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/could-outfield-be-in-tim-andersons-future/c-278979304

[southsider2k5]

I will say the longer the Sox go without being really competitive this season, the more likely they are to deal Abreu away for a lesser return.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I will say the longer the Sox go without being really competitive this season, the more likely they are to deal Abreu away for a lesser return.

I fully expect him to get dealt. Hahn wants more top prospects for the popular rebuild. Keep the momentum going as far as bringing in young newbie talent.

[yesterday333]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

I fully expect him to get dealt. Hahn wants more top prospects for the popular rebuild. Keep the momentum going as far as bringing in young newbie talent.

I think youre wrong about this. 1st I don't think the popularity of the rebuild has anything to do with it. Its all about competing when the window is open. 2nd I doubt any other values Abreu more than us, so I don't think anybody will give what it takes for us to trade him. In my opinion he only gets traded if somebody grossly over pays for him.

[greg775]

42 minutes ago, yesterday333 said:

I think youre wrong about this. 1st I don't think the popularity of the rebuild has anything to do with it. Its all about competing when the window is open. 2nd I doubt any other values Abreu more than us, so I don't think anybody will give what it takes for us to trade him. In my opinion he only gets traded if somebody grossly over pays for him.

I hope you are right, yesterday333. Post more often. I get tired of hearing greg talk (write on here) sometimes.

Edited May 30, 2018 by greg775

[wrathofhahn]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I will say the longer the Sox go without being really competitive this season, the more likely they are to deal Abreu away for a lesser return.

I think Abreu will never be worth more going forward then at the deadline so it's hard to see us getting a lesser return. Lesser then what? He is a diminishing asset!

[Kyyle23]

 

[greg775]

1 hour ago, wrathofhahn said:

I think Abreu will never be worth more going forward then at the deadline so it's hard to see us getting a lesser return. Lesser then what? He is a diminishing asset!

Even as a diminishing asset he's better than 80 percent of all hitters. This age-thing in baseball truly drives me crazy. If you were honest with me, wrath, would u admit you consider all players Jose's age diminishing assets? Please be honest.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

 

Good article. Wouldn't it be funny if in such a team meeting, somebody brought up the tanking issue? The players are kind of pawns in this tanking thing. Guys like Abreu want to win, yet the environment is one of wink, wink, keep on losing. It's all part of the plan, guys.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, wrathofhahn said:

I think Abreu will never be worth more going forward then at the deadline so it's hard to see us getting a lesser return. Lesser then what? He is a diminishing asset!

Have you seen what guys of his ilk have in trade value?

[wrathofhahn]

38 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Even as a diminishing asset he's better than 80 percent of all hitters. This age-thing in baseball truly drives me crazy. If you were honest with me, wrath, would u admit you consider all players Jose's age diminishing assets? Please be honest.

It's not about age (yet) with Abreu it's about control. He has 1.5 years of control the longer we hold onto him the "lesser the return" will be.

[wrathofhahn]

37 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Good article. Wouldn't it be funny if in such a team meeting, somebody brought up the tanking issue? The players are kind of pawns in this tanking thing. Guys like Abreu want to win, yet the environment is one of wink, wink, keep on losing. It's all part of the plan, guys.

I said it all along one of the reasons why he should have been moved is because besides being suboptimal from a rebuild perspective it's unfair to him to waste away what is left of his prime on a non-contending club.

[fathom]

1 minute ago, wrathofhahn said:

I said it all along one of the reasons why he should have been moved is because besides being suboptimal from a rebuild perspective it's unfair to him to waste away what is left of his prime on a non-contending club.

Agreed and I think this is a subtle hint by him to Hahn that he's fine being moved.  I don't blame him, he's been here 5 years and has yet to play in a meaningful game.

[wrathofhahn]

33 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Have you seen what guys of his ilk have in trade value?

I think you are making a mistake looking at past value. The trade deadline isn't about value it's about filling needs for contending clubs looking to make a run. If 6-8 teams need a 1B/DH we will get a really good package back regardless of what they went for in the past it's as simple as that.

Last year almost noone needed 1B/DH and the market reflected that now we have a bunch of the same guys struggling. In houston Marwin Gonzalez has a a .631 OPS. The Yankees have Bird who was awful last year and Austin. The Mariners have tried multiple guys at 1B none has hit and they lost Cano. The dodgers want to move Bellinger to CF full time. The Rockies have been getting nothing out of Ryan McMahon and Ian Desmond. Zimmerman on the Nationals looks done

Thats six teams right there in desperate need of hitter at 1B. That is without even getting into who might need to DH and willing to move their 1B there to bring in more hitting. The Twins come to mind (Mauer may DH when he gets healthy).  You have the Redsox who probably want to move Betts to CF because Bradley is giving them nothing.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

I think you are making a mistake looking at past value. The trade deadline isn't about value it's about filling needs for contending clubs looking to make a run. If 6-8 teams need a 1B/DH we will get a really good package back regardless of what they went for in the past it's as simple as that.

Last year almost noone needed 1B/DH and the market reflected that now we have a bunch of the same guys struggling. In houston Marwin Gonzalez has a a .631 OPS. The Yankees have Bird who was awful last year and Austin. The Mariners have tried multiple guys at 1B none has hit and they lost Cano. The dodgers want to move Bellinger to CF full time. The Rockies have been getting nothing out of Ryan McMahon and Ian Desmond. Zimmerman on the Nationals looks done

Thats six teams right there in desperate need of hitter at 1B. That is without even getting into who might need to DH and willing to move their 1B there to bring in more hitting. The Twins come to mind (Mauer may DH when he gets healthy).  You have the Redsox who probably want to move Betts to CF because Bradley is giving them nothing.

 

 

With as many teams as subscribe to modern methodologies I think you are way overestimating the market. It has gotten smaller every year for a few years now.

[wrathofhahn]

On 5/29/2018 at 4:33 PM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I think you make valid arguments .

It's not in the post I quoted but you are right about Sox management having to be smarter. That's the part that worries me most. Their depth consists of mostly 1B/DH types who have almost no ability to play the field at all. Look at Delmonico, Davidson Gillaspie, Skole and Palka and you might realize thede guys might all be auditioning for Abreu's role and maybe that's what Hahn had in mind all along. But even in the minors you can possibly add guys like Collins , Burger even Jimenez to the list of all hit no field guys . I know some of that is to be determined .

The Sox also seem to be more adverse to the versatility ( brought up in the ESPN article) issue that needs to be addressed soon. Yolmer is the only one currently who can play multiple positions . If the Sox were more open to say trying Anderson in CF or Moncada at third it makes the Sox more versatile which is essential in having a short bench with all the relief pitchers necessary in todays game.

If the Sox truly want to help their young starters they need to start getting better fielders  and more versatile athletes and stop worrying about babying the ones they have. Versatility helps a team in so many ways.

 

I agree 100% and this system (more important then the ML roster) could really use an injection of some middle infielders. We really have noone.

I'm really hoping we get some this draft and at the deadline.

 

[LittleHurt05]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Even as a diminishing asset he's better than 80 percent of all hitters. This age-thing in baseball truly drives me crazy. If you were honest with me, wrath, would u admit you consider all players Jose's age diminishing assets? Please be honest.

If you hate the so called "age-thing", then you must be a fan of drugs and PEDs in baseball? That's how all your old heroes back in the day played until 40 years old. Maybe not all steroids,  but those morning jugs of coffee were packed with amphetamines.  

[wrathofhahn]

29 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

With as many teams as subscribe to modern methodologies I think you are way overestimating the market. It has gotten smaller every year for a few years now.

I think it's more of a supply and demand thing then anything else but I guess there is no point in arguing further we will see.

[caulfield12]

The "clear rebuilders" and the "serious contenders" have never been divided into two groups so quickly.

Even teams like the Pirates, A's and Tigers ultimately know what side of the ledger they're on already.  With much less indecision about making a move (adding or subtracting), it FEELS like there should be more moves this year than in previous seasons.

There's so much pressure for teams like the M's to finally make the playoffs...on the Angels with their payroll and yet Trout hasn't been able to push them all the way through, Cardinals/Cubs/Brewers, the NL West with Colorado, Arizona, SF (they're forcing an attempt to contend when they should have rebuilt) and the Dodgers will obviously fight to get back into this at some point.