GreenSox Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: What he said isn’t factually untrue, but revenue wise we’re a mid market team. Having said that, there is major market potential in there. It would take a lot of money, time, & effort to tap into it, but the upside is most definitely there. I’m not a Reinsdorf hater by any means, but not sure it happens under his watch unless he can land a Machado or Harper next offseason. That’s the type of move that is needed to re-engage our fanbase and steal some of the casual segment. If the Sox are following the Astros or Cubs models, neither one had to sign a player like that. The Astros stands were empty during the rebuild. Both had 3 lousy seasons during the rebuild and then made the playoffs. That would put the Sox at 2020, with 1/2 a season cushion (Sox rebuild started July 2016) and with having far more quality players to trade than either the Astros or Cubs. The Cubs had a good farm system when Theo took over, but the Astros' was as bad as the Sox when Luhnow came to town. Of course if you use the Brewers timetable (began the rebuild in July 2015 and posted winning season in 2017), the Sox should have a winning team right now. All in all, 2020 seems like a reasonable timetable IF there is accountability should it not be achieved. Edited June 1, 2018 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, GreenSox said: If the Sox are following the Astros or Cubs models, neither one had to sign a player like that. The Astros stands were empty during the rebuild. Both had 3 lousy seasons during the rebuild and then made the playoffs. That would put the Sox at 2020, with 1/2 a season cushion (Sox rebuild started July 2016) and with having far more quality players to trade than either the Astros or Cubs. Of course if you use the Brewers timetable (began the rebuild in July 2015 and posted winning season in 2017), the Sox should have a winning team right now. All in all, 2020 seems like a reasonable timetable IF there is accountability should it not be achieved. Cubs signed both Lester and Heyward to large money deals at the front of the competitive leap, both of them were that kind of player. Astros i will give you, they were blessed with some amazing players that they drafted and developed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, GreenSox said: If the Sox are following the Astros or Cubs models, neither one had to sign a player like that. The Astros stands were empty during the rebuild. Both had 3 lousy seasons during the rebuild and then made the playoffs. That would put the Sox at 2020, with 1/2 a season cushion (Sox rebuild started July 2016) and with having far more quality players to trade than either the Astros or Cubs. Of course if you use the Brewers timetable (began the rebuild in July 2015 and posted winning season in 2017), the Sox should have a winning team right now. All in all, 2020 seems like a reasonable timetable IF there is accountability should it not be achieved. Well one, we’re not necessarily following their models (see my other post). But my point about adding Machado or Harper is about fundamentally changing the franchise and tapping into its potential. And the best way to do that is add multiple, star caliber talents. A hypothetical core built around Machado, Moncada, Jimenez, & Robert (again, if all goes right) could set the city on fire and gain national attention. Those are four potential superstars on one team. The rebuild isn’t necessarily going to live or die on adding Machado or Harper, but it sure as shit would reinvigorate a fanbase and hopefully steal some much needed attention/share from the Cubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Fan O'Faust said: Steve Stone said on WGN radio just last week that the Sox are a "major market team". Which stands to reason, given that they reside in the major market known as "Chicago". lol @ taking at face value the words of a team mouthpiece. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: lol @ taking at face value the words of a team mouthpiece. Far more credible than the words of an ill-informed internet message board administrator, wouldn't you say? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Fan O'Faust said: Far more credible than the words of an ill-informed internet message board administrator, wouldn't you say? As opposed to someone who doesn't have an agenda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: 'cWell one, we’re not necessarily following their models (see my other post). But my point about adding Machado or Harper is about fundamentally changing the franchise and tapping into its potential. And the best way to do that is add multiple, star caliber talents. A hypothetical core built around Machado, Moncada, Jimenez, & Robert (again, if all goes right) could set the city on fire and gain national attention. Those are four potential superstars on one team. The rebuild isn’t necessarily going to live or die on adding Machado or Harper, but it sure as shit would reinvigorate a fanbase and hopefully steal some much needed attention/share from the Cubs. The rebuild will live or die by making the playoffs in two years. The excitement from signing a big time free agent will quickly turn into mockery should the Sox not field a playoff team. The Cubs signed Heyward after they made the playoffs, and he hasn't helped anway. The Cubs signed Lester, a huge help, and the Cubs made the playoffs the next season. If a big FA is critical part of the plan, then fine. But no more contrivances, distractions, built-in excuses that we've heard for so long. Edited June 1, 2018 by GreenSox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: As opposed to someone who doesn't have an agenda? I don’t think Steve Stone has an “agenda”. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, Fan O'Faust said: I don’t think Steve Stone has an “agenda”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: lol @ taking at face value the words of a team mouthpiece. I mean, Steve Stone isn't wrong. The Sox are in a big market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Just now, soxfan2014 said: I mean, Steve Stone isn't wrong. The Sox are in a big market. They are in a big market, but they are NOT a big market team. There is a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: They are in a big market, but they are NOT a big market team. There is a difference. They're a big market team. Just operate as a mid-market. But just because they operate as such, doesn't make them that. Edited June 1, 2018 by soxfan2014 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Just now, soxfan2014 said: They're a big market team. Just operate as a mid-market. Everything about the White Sox is middle market, except the city they play in. Even at their absolute peak they weren't a big market team. Revenues, viewership, audience, etc all support that. We have a middle sized fan base when compared to the rest of baseball, who are extremely willing to jump ship at any time. Major market teams don't see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 #8 most valuable franchise at peak...now down to #14. The Angels and Mets yes, clearly upmarket, but Oakland in a new stadium and Sox should at least have the potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Maybe Sox should get a competitive balance draft pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 9 hours ago, caulfield12 said: For 20+ years, Pitt and KC were laughing stocks... If this rebuild fails, if too many players flame out, welcome to the 20 year rebuild, folks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: Everything about the White Sox is middle market, except the city they play in. Even at their absolute peak they weren't a big market team. Revenues, viewership, audience, etc all support that. We have a middle sized fan base when compared to the rest of baseball, who are extremely willing to jump ship at any time. Major market teams don't see that. Goodness, you can be such the broken record sometimes, with your gratuitous fan bashing and your nonsensical insistence that the CHICAGO White Sox are a middle market team. As it relates to the latter, Steve Stone would probably direct your stubborn attention to ye olde “sweetheart lease deal”, whereby if you were so inclined to focus on its contents, you’d realize this team is guaranteed “major market” revenue streams through very generous subsidies each and every year, whether there are 30,000 fans in the park each night or 964. So you can choose to keep your head in the sand on this subject and keep presenting this erroneous point of view, or take the lead of the very knowledgeable Steve Stone and recognize the obvious, which is the FACT that the White Sox are clearly a “major market” team. Edited June 1, 2018 by Fan O'Faust 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, Fan O'Faust said: Goodness, you can be such the broken record sometimes, with your gratuitous fan bashing and your nonsensical insistence that the CHICAGO White Sox are a middle market team. As it relates to the latter, Steve Stone would probably direct your stubborn attention to ye olde “sweetheart lease deal”, whereby if you were so inclined to focus on its contents, you’d realize this team is guaranteed “major market” revenue streams through very generous subsidies each and every year, whether there are 30,000 fans in the park each night or 964. So you can choose to keep your head in the sand on this subject and keep presenting this erroneous point of view, or take the lead of the very knowledgeable Steve Stone and recognize the obvious, which is the FACT that the White Sox are clearly a “major market” team. They are 18th in the league in revenue, and 14th in projected value according to Forbes. That is about as middle as it gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, Fan O'Faust said: Goodness, you can be such the broken record sometimes, with your gratuitous fan bashing and your nonsensical insistence that the CHICAGO White Sox are a middle market team. As it relates to the latter, Steve Stone would probably direct your stubborn attention to ye olde “sweetheart lease deal”, whereby if you were so inclined to focus on its contents, you’d realize this team is guaranteed “major market” revenue streams through very generous subsidies each and every year, whether there are 30,000 fans in the park each night or 964. So you can choose to keep your head in the sand on this subject and keep presenting this erroneous point of view, or take the lead of the very knowledgeable Steve Stone and recognize the obvious, which is the FACT that the White Sox are clearly a “major market” team. You can also pick and choose your "facts" based on your bitterness with ownership, but that doesn't make it right. Don't let the actual revenue numbers get in the way of a nonsensical rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: They are 18th in the league in revenue, and 14th in projected value according to Forbes. That is about as middle as it gets. Obviously, their numbers in both those categories were Top 10 in 2006 or 2007...so what does that make them? The potential (untapped) of a major market franchise trapped by a decade of mediocrity forcing them back into mid-market status, I guess? We don’t know for sure because we’ve never had a consistently-winning White Sox team in any of our lifetimes....unless you go back to the 50’s and 60’s, when the Yankees and playoff format usually blocked them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 9 hours ago, Fan O'Faust said: Steve Stone said on WGN radio just last week that the Sox are a "major market team". Which stands to reason, given that they reside in the major market known as "Chicago". That the Sox reside in the city of Chicago does NOT mean that their market is the entire city of Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Obviously, their numbers in both those categories were Top 10 in 2006 or 2007...so what does that make them? The potential (untapped) of a major market franchise trapped by a decade of mediocrity forcing them back into mid-market status, I guess? We don’t know for sure because we’ve never had a consistently-winning White Sox team in any of our lifetimes....unless you go back to the 50’s and 60’s, when the Yankees and playoff format usually blocked them. 18th 2006 15th 2007 14th 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 18 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: That the Sox reside in the city of Chicago does NOT mean that their market is the entire city of Chicago. Bingo. It is disingenuous to ignore history and suggest otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: 18th 2006 15th 2007 14th 2008 But those are not for franchise value... Edited June 1, 2018 by caulfield12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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