southsider2k5 Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: If someone would take Shields' money, that would by far trump any player they could acquire for him while eating it. No way that happens. At this point when you add in both what the Padres are kicking in, and what we have paid him already. The Sox have somewhere around $6 million left to pay Shields this year. It isn't THAT much really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: Me neither, which isn't what I said at all in the post you are responding to. I know. I was adding to what you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, greg775 said: What would they do with the money anyway? Try to get a Class A catcher. Take a shot on that position. Shed as much payroll as possible IMO. I want the ownership group to save as much money as possible. Sign Manny machado with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 I think Shields has more value to the Sox than another team. Having Shields here prevents the Sox from forcing Kopech or Stephens to be called up before their time. If one of those guys shows they are ready then Shields is simply released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I know. I was adding to what you said. Gotcha. My apologies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: At this point when you add in both what the Padres are kicking in, and what we have paid him already. The Sox have somewhere around $6 million left to pay Shields this year. It isn't THAT much really. Right. And by the time you deal him, it's clsoer to $3-4 mill if its towards the end of July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said: I think Shields has more value to the Sox than another team. Having Shields here prevents the Sox from forcing Kopech or Stephens to be called up before their time. If one of those guys shows they are ready then Shields is simply released. No, he doesn't. Santiago can have those innings if necessary. Also I'd like to see Stephens get a shot. Other than last night's start he's performed well all year, and he'll be 26 in September. If the White Sox are going to see if they have a backend to mid rotation starter here, they're going to need to give him that chance soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 25 minutes ago, greg775 said: I know, it's strictly a salary dump and getting rid of him, really. I don't know why I care about a salary dump. I'd love to see Jerry and the investors get hit in the wallet one of these days in response to the lousy product and no concern for fan enjoyment (parking, concession prices). Should be interesting to see which contender takes Shields off the Sox payroll. If you keep repeating and repeating something, maybe one day everyone will stop presenting contrary facts to you and finally agree. Never give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Just now, Dam8610 said: No, he doesn't. Santiago can have those innings if necessary. Also I'd like to see Stephens get a shot. Other than last night's start he's performed well all year, and he'll be 26 in September. If the White Sox are going to see if they have a backend to mid rotation starter here, they're going to need to give him that chance soon. Santiago isn't going to have those innings, because he will never last. He's gone by the 4th or 5th these days. His stuff isn't good enough for enough swings and misses, only increasing the ridiculous amount of pitches he throws anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Dam8610 said: No, he doesn't. Santiago can have those innings if necessary. Also I'd like to see Stephens get a shot. Other than last night's start he's performed well all year, and he'll be 26 in September. If the White Sox are going to see if they have a backend to mid rotation starter here, they're going to need to give him that chance soon. I don't necessarily disagree but that's how little value Shields has on the trade market IMHO. His value to the Sox as an innings eater is more than it would be to a contender. There's a better chance of Santiago netting the Sox something in a trade than Shields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said: I don't necessarily disagree but that's how little value Shields has on the trade market IMHO. His value to the Sox as an innings eater is more than it would be to a contender. There's a better chance of Santiago netting the Sox something in a trade than Shields. Agreed. Ask yourself if you would be furious if the Sox acquired Shields for nothing and tried to sell it to the fans as an upgrade if they were contending. Shields isn't an MLB pitcher at this point, despite his results, any attempt to claim otherwise is ridiculous. He's only going somewhere if DFA. Edited June 7, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 This thread is depressing (after today's start). We should kill it and just pretend he's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 10 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Agreed. Ask yourself if you would be furious if the Sox acquired Shields for nothing and tried to sell it to the fans as and upgrade if they were contending. Shields isn't an MLB pitcher at this point, despite his results, and to attempt to claim otherwise is ridiculous. He's only going somewhere if DFA. I would be furious, no doubt about it. I really don't see how a contender would look at Shields and think he would somehow upgrade their rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: Agreed. Ask yourself if you would be furious if the Sox acquired Shields for nothing and tried to sell it to the fans as an upgrade if they were contending. Shields isn't an MLB pitcher at this point, despite his results, any attempt to claim otherwise is ridiculous. He's only going somewhere if DFA. Shields is still an MLB pitcher. Probably not on a contending team, but there is a long list of guys starting games in the MLB that are worse than James Shields (dollars put aside). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Shields is still an MLB pitcher. Probably not on a contending team, but there is a long list of guys starting games in the MLB that are worse than James Shields (dollars put aside). You're a GM of a playoff contender and have to win games. Do you want James Shields on the mound for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: You're a GM of a playoff contender and have to win games. Do you want James Shields on the mound for you? What are my other options in this scenario? There are teams who will be in playoff contention whose #5 starters are BAD. It might be worth it to one of their GMs to flip a lottery ticket to the Sox for a free starter who is better than any of their internal options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 36 minutes ago, Dam8610 said: What are my other options in this scenario? There are teams who will be in playoff contention whose #5 starters are BAD. It might be worth it to one of their GMs to flip a lottery ticket to the Sox for a free starter who is better than any of their internal options. In an era where trading away a prospect that blows up ends up being a stain on a franchise for a LONG period of time (I mean how many Tatis posts have we seen here) it isn't that hard to squint and see a scenario where a team is gunshy about sending out top end guys, but maybe is willing to send out something on the low end of their system for a guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 36 minutes ago, Dam8610 said: What are my other options in this scenario? There are teams who will be in playoff contention whose #5 starters are BAD. It might be worth it to one of their GMs to flip a lottery ticket to the Sox for a free starter who is better than any of their internal options. It doesn't matter you can have a debate about positions being undervalued and being worth more at the deadline like for example Abreu based on supply and demand but even if there isn't anyone available Shields isn't worth much because he isn't any good. If you need SP after trading for Shields you still need SP. He's just a body and everyone knows it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 On 6/6/2018 at 3:02 PM, chitownsportsfan said: So you'd be furious that your hypothetical contending team traded for a decent 4th starter or a quality 5th starter and gave up almost nothing, like probably a B- prospect that is the 4th or 5th best guy in your system and is probably years away from helping your big club? Ok then. I would be enraged if my time spent a B prospect on James Shields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: I can't imagine a scenario where a team picks up his contract AND gives a return. His contract is like $5 million by that point. They could get $2.5 million paid for and possibly a couple of flyers in A ball. Still worth it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 21 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I would be enraged if my time spent a B prospect on James Shields. Eh, if you have a really shitty 5th starter and you're in a dogfight and the asking price is like Basabe you have to consider it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Dick Allen said: You're a GM of a playoff contender and have to win games. Do you want James Shields on the mound for you? Not really, no. But that wasn't the comment I was responding to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Eh, if you have a really shitty 5th starter and you're in a dogfight and the asking price is like Basabe you have to consider it. Basabe? He's a top 12ish prospect in a top 3 system in the game. There is no chance in hell the Sox are getting a guy like that for Shields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Basabe? He's a top 12ish prospect in a top 3 system in the game. There is no chance in hell the Sox are getting a guy like that for Shields. He's a B- type. If you go lower than that you're just getting A ball no names or Saladino types. You package shields with someone else to get to that level. If they ask for Avi, who cares. If they ask for Yolmer, you ask for more. Rutherford was considered a B+ guy when the Sox got him and they got him for two months of Todd Frazier and two very fungible relievers (as we've seen this year). It's not going to take much to get a B- type. Edited June 7, 2018 by chitownsportsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 The other thing to consider is with all the tanking, the fight for a WC isn’t as big as before. Right now in the AL it’s really a 6 team fight for 5 spots. The NL has a few more teams involved but not many. If you look at their rotations, it’s hard to see where Shields would be an upgrade, and you have to figure there will be better pitchers available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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