White Sox select Nick Madrigal with 4th overall pick

[tray]

5'7" 150 pounds.

[wrathofhahn]

33 minutes ago, tray said:

5'7" 150 pounds.

Rafael Belliard

5'6 160 pounds. Someone actually hunted up the footage of all his homeruns he hit in his 17 year career and put it on youtube.

Interesting watch if you can set aside the time.

Edited June 7, 2018 by wrathofhahn

[caulfield12]

Craig Grebeck + Joey Cora

All say hello...

Or we can go with Roy Oswalt and Billy Wagner.  Jason Frasor.  Johnny Cueto.  Tim Lincecum.  Marcus Stroman.

Former KC Royals' LHP Tim Collins is the same height as Madrigal and threw in the low to mid 90's before he got hurt.

Edited June 7, 2018 by caulfield12

[Dominikk85]

8 hours ago, greg775 said:

I've been thinking about this. I know Altuve is the popular exception but cmon we should not expect Madrigal to hit more than 3-5 homers a year. The guy is what, 5-foot-6? 5-7? Not that he has to hit homers to be productive. I mean like somebody said our lineup "should" have enough power to win a couple WS. He better be a good average and on base guy and fielder or he'll be known as a horrific draft pick. He can allegedly do the three things I just mentioned so we should chill. But he's NOT going to hit 15-20 hrs a year, cmon folks. Altuve is a "freak" in a good way.

who hits 3 to 5 homers in these days? I agree altuve is an exception and we should be happy if he becomes howie kendrick but last year 216 hitters had 400+ PAs and just 4 of them hit below 5 homers and only 25 hitters hit single digit homers.

 

I mean there is a chance mardigal is dee gordon but most scouts think he will hit 8-12.  during his college career he hit 7 in 550 ABs. he might lose a little moving to wood (albeit the new BBCOR metal bat aren't much hotter than wood) but he probably will also add 10-15 pounds. I think 8 homers is about his "floor" (which means like 25th percentile outcome or so of course as I'm not saying there is zero chance he hits less). I would guess 8 homers is like 25th percentile outcome, 12 is like average and like 17 is the 75th percentile with an outside shot at more (numbers just guessed of course).

 

I think 10 homers is a pretty conservative guess.

[Dominikk85]

9 hours ago, Lillian said:

This is the most valid point, made so far, in this discussion of Madrigal's hitting skill. I frankly hope that he does not try to elevate balls. That is not his game. His value will be on making contact, using his speed and getting on base. I suspect that his ability to barrel up pitches will diminish somewhat, once he begins to face Major League pitching. Although he rarely strikes out, he also does not walk, as much as he should. At his height, his strike zone is pretty small. He should be able to draw more walks, and I would expect his OBP to be around .400. If he does that, sees a lot of pitches and then provides a legitimate stolen base threat, he could be a fantastic lead off hitter. If anyone can learn to be more patient and learn to draw more walks, it is a guy with his kind of baseball acumen. 

Regading walks this is also related to power. Scouts say he has a pretty solid approach at the plate but because he is not a power threat yet pitchers will throw the ball over the plate because they don't want to put him on first but are also not that afraid of contact creating homers.

Chase rate and approach is important for walks but so is zone rate by the pitchers. adam dunn had a great eye but he also walked a lot because pitchers didn't want to give up homers.

 

If madrigal becomes a 10 homer guy I think it would be good if he walks 7-8% (like altuve also does), it is rare that low power guys walk a lot (joe mauer is an exception). what is important is more that he doesn't "not walk", if it is 4-5% or lower that would be bad. but I don't expect that, I think his walk rate will be slightly below average which is fine if he hits 290.

[caulfield12]

John Cangelosi another shorter Sox player...

https://amp.mlb.com/280112286-white-sox-draft-picks-boost-rebuild.amp.html

Hostetler said Monday he believes Madrigal will be able to play at Class A Advanced Winston-Salem at some point this season. Madrigal will split his time between second base, shortstop and third base.

Chicago rounded out Day 1 with outfielder Steele Walker out of Oklahoma in the second round (No. 46 overall). The White Sox view Walker as a center fielder, though he played mostly right field this year because Oklahoma quarterback, and No. 9 overall selection to the A's, Kyler Murray, played up the middle.

Day 2 saw the White Sox select six more college players and two high schoolers. Their top Day 2 selection was Konnor Pilkington, a left-handed pitcher from Mississippi State. Pilkington ranked 60th overall on MLB Pipeline and is unusually young for a college Draft pick -- he doesn't turn 21 until September.

[Richie]

24 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

John Cangelosi another shorter Sox player...

https://amp.mlb.com/280112286-white-sox-draft-picks-boost-rebuild.amp.html

Hostetler said Monday he believes Madrigal will be able to play at Class A Advanced Winston-Salem at some point this season. Madrigal will split his time between second base, shortstop and third base.

Chicago rounded out Day 1 with outfielder Steele Walker out of Oklahoma in the second round (No. 46 overall). The White Sox view Walker as a center fielder, though he played mostly right field this year because Oklahoma quarterback, and No. 9 overall selection to the A's, Kyler Murray, played up the middle.

Day 2 saw the White Sox select six more college players and two high schoolers. Their top Day 2 selection was Konnor Pilkington, a left-handed pitcher from Mississippi State. Pilkington ranked 60th overall on MLB Pipeline and is unusually young for a college Draft pick -- he doesn't turn 21 until September.

Cangi gave me batting lessons as a kid. lol

[WBWSF]

I keep reading that Madrigal will be a shortstop when he plays in the minors. If that is true does that mean the White Sox will not bid on free agent Manny Machado this upcoming off season?

[Dam8610]

8 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I keep reading that Madrigal will be a shortstop when he plays in the minors. If that is true does that mean the White Sox will not bid on free agent Manny Machado this upcoming off season?

Why would one have anything to do with the other?

[oldsox]

What kind of signing bonus is expected here?  Above slot, below??

[Dominikk85]

I don't think he will be a shortstop, but maybe they want to make him a flexible player who can play ss in a pinch, similar to ben zobrist. scouts say he can play SS but you have to consider that there are not many shortstops who are good defenders in college anyway because the top athletes tend to get drafted out of HS. even many college shortstops move from short and thus I think it is a stretch to play madrigal who moved because of a teammate there.

however I do think he can play there occasionally without being terrible and that flexibility is good.

[Two-Gun Pete]

On 6/4/2018 at 9:26 PM, wrathofhahn said:

Another college guy yay. Why not take a more upside guy in Groshans or Stewart? Instead we draft yet another flawed college player.

Don't get me wrong I like Madrigal but he's a midget.

Yeah, I don't get this viewpoint at all.

In terms of the draft, I always like the BPA, pretty much every time high in the draft. Didn't the Three Stooges (Laumann, KW, & Bell) stupidly draft "high upside guys" for a decade? And how many of those draftees become positive providers of WAR?

 

In terms of college guys vs prep, one wonders: who in this org has shown the ability to coach/teach our youngsters? After all, Collins "fixed himself" by disregarding the so-called coaching he received in hitter mini camp, for example. Could a less-experienced and less-educated prep draftee "fix himself" by ignoring the questionable instruction he would get? Im not so sure. And when was the last time this org scouted, AND drafted, AND signed, AND developed their own prep draftee into a positive provider of WAR? I honestly don't remember, at least among high draftees. 

 

I'm simply not convinced that this org can develop prep players at all. Give me more refined college players high in the draft, until further notice. Give me the BPA every single time high in the draft, as hostetler has done. It simply works better than wishing on "high upside."

[TaylorStSox]

Am I going to have to hear about the grindiest Grinder to ever grind for the next 15 years? 

[caulfield12]

Rutherford’s going to be an interesting case study for the Getz-Ian development of “younger” talent, especially now that he’s come back down to earth from his early season high’s.

 

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said:

Am I going to have to hear about the grindiest Grinder to ever grind for the next 15 years? 

Eckstein or McEwing...

[maggsmaggs]

36 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I keep reading that Madrigal will be a shortstop when he plays in the minors. If that is true does that mean the White Sox will not bid on free agent Manny Machado this upcoming off season?

While Machado is a great 3B, he is below average at SS (this year his defensive runs save is -8, which is tied for second worst in the game for SSs). The Sox will likely bid for him as a 3B and so will many other teams knowing he is way better there than SS. 

[Lillian]

My guess is that Madrigal has all of the tools to be a very good SS, with the one exception of his arm. He is supposed to have terrific hands, and he is very quick. His range will likely be very good. Given his high baseball acumen, and previous experience at SS, he should be very capable at turning the double play. His one questionable defensive tool will be his arm strength, which will impede his ability to make throws from deep in the hole, at short. In any case, we will soon find out, as they plan to let him start at short. 

Regarding his height; a hitters power has more to do with bat speed, than his size. Moreover, "size" is not measured exclusively in height. There are some very strong guys, who are not tall. In Madrigal's case, I have no idea how strong his hands are and what kind of bat speed, he generates. That will determine whether, or not, he will be able to produce any kind of power. However, power is not his game, and if he begins to focus upon things like launch angle, with that goal in mind, it would be a mistake.

His role will be to see a lot pitches, get on base, and provide a threat to steal, thus distracting the pitcher. Those are the lead off hitter's responsibilities and that is what we should all be hoping that he can provide. How many homers he hits is of little importance. In any case, the difference between his hitting 7 or 8 long balls, versus 10 to 15, is not significant. Adding 5 more homers per year, from your lead off hitter, is hardly a difference worth worrying about. 

[Bob Sacamano]

9 hours ago, fathom said:

Speaking of stuff that has come out after the draft, kiley today said numerous teams in 6-15 range had zero interest in Singer.

Considering where he was drafted, isn't this obvious?

[bmags]

14 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

I love the amount of extrapolation in this thread... 

Multiplying college baseball numbers to a 700 PA sample for an MLB season isn't even close to being predictive, of anything. Madrigal is going to strike out more than 25 times per season and he'll also hit more than 10 home runs per season.  

That's not my point. He threw out 8 HRs in 3 seasons to make it sound absurd he could hit 15 in one, but he'll likely get more PAs in 1 health MLB season at the top of the order. Madrigals power will have to improve, but it's not some astronomical amount of improvement to hit 15.

[Dick Allen]

8 hours ago, tray said:

5'7" 150 pounds.

Here's Harry today. At least last December. His mugshot when he hit someone

 

[steveno89]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

That's not my point. He threw out 8 HRs in 3 seasons to make it sound absurd he could hit 15 in one, but he'll likely get more PAs in 1 health MLB season at the top of the order. Madrigals power will have to improve, but it's not some astronomical amount of improvement to hit 15.

I'll trust that a guy with a 65 hit tool will end up figuring out how to hit roughly 15 home runs per year due to the quality of contact he makes. Power may not be his calling card, but scouting reports indicate he is not merely a slap hitter.

I expect Madrigal to sign quickly after his season is over for slot money.

[bmags]

6 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

I'll trust that a guy with a 65 hit tool will end up figuring out how to hit roughly 15 home runs per year due to the quality of contact he makes. Power may not be his calling card, but scouting reports indicate he is not merely a slap hitter.

I expect Madrigal to sign quickly after his season is over for slot money.

2 things would need to happen:

- Improve natural strength (Some improvement expected, whether it's too marginal to matter we won't know)

- Improve pitch selection - He can hit basically anything now, he'll have to learn which pitches he can drive and reduce some pitches he can just poke. This should play hand in hand with increasing his walk rate.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

13 minutes ago, bmags said:

2 things would need to happen:

- Improve natural strength (Some improvement expected, whether it's too marginal to matter we won't know)

- Improve pitch selection - He can hit basically anything now, he'll have to learn which pitches he can drive and reduce some pitches he can just poke. This should play hand in hand with increasing his walk rate.

 

He's only 21 so his body isn't done maturing. He should be stronger in a few years for sure.

[southsider2k5]

I know the name Tommy Herr was mentioned earlier.  If you add some BA points and walks to adjust for the era, that really is an interesting comp, especially when you focus on his peak in the mid 80's.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

I know the name Tommy Herr was mentioned earlier.  If you add some BA points and walks to adjust for the era, that really is an interesting comp, especially when you focus on his peak in the mid 80's.

Another pretty little dude who had one hell of a career is someone we all know and love who is managing in our minor league system right now.