2018-2019 Official NBA thread

[Chisoxfn]

8 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

https://clutchpoints.com/bulls-rumors-fred-hoiberg-gave-zach-lavine-freedom/

There is something on Athletic but I think you need to be a subscriber.

Seems Blakeney called out Hoiberg for taking him out of a game. 

Blakeney frustrates me.  The guy who thinks he's the best player in the league. That said, he's the type of guy you don't mind coming off the bench when you are done and need a spark off the bench (losing big, momentum not on your side) who you put out. In the first minute or so you'll know if he will lead you back and create a spark or if he'll just make the hole worse (which at that point isn't a big deal).  Play him too often and it won't work as he just doesn't get his buckets in the conframe of an offense.  

[Soxbadger]

14 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Blakeney frustrates me.  The guy who thinks he's the best player in the league. That said, he's the type of guy you don't mind coming off the bench when you are done and need a spark off the bench (losing big, momentum not on your side) who you put out. In the first minute or so you'll know if he will lead you back and create a spark or if he'll just make the hole worse (which at that point isn't a big deal).  Play him too often and it won't work as he just doesn't get his buckets in the conframe of an offense.  

A guy like Blakeney needs to be controlled. If he doesnt follow what the coach says, he sits on the bench until he learns his role again. Hoiberg just didnt seem to have that control as a coach. 

I think it was odd for a guy like Carter who played for Coach K.

[bmags]

16 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Blakeney frustrates me.  The guy who thinks he's the best player in the league. That said, he's the type of guy you don't mind coming off the bench when you are done and need a spark off the bench (losing big, momentum not on your side) who you put out. In the first minute or so you'll know if he will lead you back and create a spark or if he'll just make the hole worse (which at that point isn't a big deal).  Play him too often and it won't work as he just doesn't get his buckets in the conframe of an offense.  

https://theathletic.com/692735/2018/12/04/bulls-hoiberg-boylen-coach-change/

I have to say, the "it's out of control" stuff seems pretty soft. I bet this stuff happens all the time. A player saying "why the eff did you take me out?", I saw Taj scream that in Thibs face. 

 

[Chisoxfn]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

https://theathletic.com/692735/2018/12/04/bulls-hoiberg-boylen-coach-change/

I have to say, the "it's out of control" stuff seems pretty soft. I bet this stuff happens all the time. A player saying "why the eff did you take me out?", I saw Taj scream that in Thibs face. 

 

Oh yeah, I was purely commenting on Blakeny. I used to yell at the TV pretty regularly to pull him...very rarely would he, but the guy just never takes good shots. I will also say, many times I yelled at him, he'd end up making the shot, but I don't think that necessarily makes it better.  Personally, I don't think Pax was ever that enamored with Hoiberg, however, their was probably some point in him being a "nice guy" (post Thibbs) and a strong communicator (or so they thought) who they could develop a strong front office relationship with that lead Pax to getting on board with the move. Its like anything...when you break up with one coach, often times teams end up going the exact opposite direction with the next hire. Thibbs and Hoiberg couldn't have been more opposite (literally the fullest extremes possible to be honest).

I'd take Thibbs over many coaches in the league, but you can see based upon what happened in Minnesota that he wasn't going to work well with others. 

[bmags]

Just now, Chisoxfn said:

Oh yeah, I was purely commenting on Blakeny. I used to yell at the TV pretty regularly to pull him...very rarely would he, but the guy just never takes good shots. I will also say, many times I yelled at him, he'd end up making the shot, but I don't think that necessarily makes it better.  

Blakeney is bad. He openly admits his only route to being in NBA is scoring whenever asked about defense. He isn't going to get better at it until he loses a job because of it.

[Soxbadger]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

https://theathletic.com/692735/2018/12/04/bulls-hoiberg-boylen-coach-change/

I have to say, the "it's out of control" stuff seems pretty soft. I bet this stuff happens all the time. A player saying "why the eff did you take me out?", I saw Taj scream that in Thibs face. 

 

I dont think I ever saw Hoiberg have control for the entire season. The Bulls were 5-19. 3rd to last in points scored. He was getting 5 mil per year (which is just outside of top 10.) I saw nothing this year that gave me any confidence in him as a coach. Even the most basic thing like "get Carter more shots" seems to have not been a priority. 

Im not saying its Hoiberg's fault. He probably wasnt ready to be a NBA coach, or at minimum wasnt ready to take on a job that was going to be difficult. But I never thought "Ok Hoiberg is going to figure something out to give this team a better chance to win tonight." 

[Chisoxfn]

2 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

I dont think I ever saw Hoiberg have control for the entire season. The Bulls were 5-19. 3rd to last in points scored. He was getting 5 mil per year (which is just outside of top 10.) I saw nothing this year that gave me any confidence in him as a coach. Even the most basic thing like "get Carter more shots" seems to have not been a priority. 

Im not saying its Hoiberg's fault. He probably wasnt ready to be a NBA coach, or at minimum wasnt ready to take on a job that was going to be difficult. But I never thought "Ok Hoiberg is going to figure something out to give this team a better chance to win tonight." 

I will say...I think I was literally the biggest critic of Fred in that first season. I thought he was a disaster and literally was calling for him to be dropped in that first season.  It didn't really get much better then 2nd season, however, last year I didn't really have any major negative in terms of Fred. I don't know that I had a major positive, but maybe I just got so used to how lousy he was that my expectations were so low. His first two years, I regularly thought we had one of the worse coaches in the league and the front office is absolutely responsible for that move.  

I'll also say that Fred is the type of guy that I'll root for wherever he lands next.  He truly seems like a great guy and his personality is just a much better fit for the college game, imo.  

[bmags]

4 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

I dont think I ever saw Hoiberg have control for the entire season. The Bulls were 5-19. 3rd to last in points scored. He was getting 5 mil per year (which is just outside of top 10.) I saw nothing this year that gave me any confidence in him as a coach. Even the most basic thing like "get Carter more shots" seems to have not been a priority. 

Im not saying its Hoiberg's fault. He probably wasnt ready to be a NBA coach, or at minimum wasnt ready to take on a job that was going to be difficult. But I never thought "Ok Hoiberg is going to figure something out to give this team a better chance to win tonight." 

I don't think Hoiberg is a good coach.I don't think he's an awful coach. I don't think "control" was as much of an issue. 

I actually think he has done, or WCJ himself did a good job, of trying to make him more assertive. But it's difficult to get him a lot of shots in an offense when you sign players like Jabari Parker and Holiday and Lavine and Blakeney who are not looking to distribute. 

Lavine tries, but it still isn't a natural skill and makes a lot of bad decisions.

He also replaced Payne with Arci which helped get WCJ more shots.

As the Athletic article laid out, they did slow the pace way down after GS to try and slog out more games.

WIthout Lauri, Dunn, Portis and Valentine, this is a bottom 3 team in talent. It just is. Especially at guard, it's as thin as it gets. Arci is nice because he's well rounded offensively, but he's a sieve. Almost everyone is on this team.

[Soxbadger]

1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said:

I will say...I think I was literally the biggest critic of Fred in that first season. I thought he was a disaster and literally was calling for him to be dropped in that first season.  It didn't really get much better then 2nd season, however, last year I didn't really have any major negative in terms of Fred. I don't know that I had a major positive, but maybe I just got so used to how lousy he was that my expectations were so low. His first two years, I regularly thought we had one of the worse coaches in the league and the front office is absolutely responsible for that move.  

I'll also say that Fred is the type of guy that I'll root for wherever he lands next.  He truly seems like a great guy and his personality is just a much better fit for the college game, imo.  

I like Hoiberg as a person. I think he seems like a respectable nice guy. I never have seen him do anything wrong as a human. 

But watching this season, it was going no where fast. Even small things like substitution patterns were horrific. I felt that almost every game he did something detrimental to the Bulls winning. And I cant one time remember going "oh wow clever." He never even tried new things. Like why not try Carter and Lopez at the same time? Why not do other things. Your team is a shit show, isnt now the time to get creative?

[Chisoxfn]

8 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don't think Hoiberg is a good coach.I don't think he's an awful coach. I don't think "control" was as much of an issue. 

I actually think he has done, or WCJ himself did a good job, of trying to make him more assertive. But it's difficult to get him a lot of shots in an offense when you sign players like Jabari Parker and Holiday and Lavine and Blakeney who are not looking to distribute. 

Lavine tries, but it still isn't a natural skill and makes a lot of bad decisions.

He also replaced Payne with Arci which helped get WCJ more shots.

As the Athletic article laid out, they did slow the pace way down after GS to try and slog out more games.

WIthout Lauri, Dunn, Portis and Valentine, this is a bottom 3 team in talent. It just is. Especially at guard, it's as thin as it gets. Arci is nice because he's well rounded offensively, but he's a sieve. Almost everyone is on this team.

Yes...I don't disagree with anything you state. I think the decision had to be based a lot more on what was happening in practice and within the lockeroom vs. the in-game performance. In-game this team was going to be bad, given who has been out.  

[Soxbadger]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don't think Hoiberg is a good coach.I don't think he's an awful coach. I don't think "control" was as much of an issue. 

I actually think he has done, or WCJ himself did a good job, of trying to make him more assertive. But it's difficult to get him a lot of shots in an offense when you sign players like Jabari Parker and Holiday and Lavine and Blakeney who are not looking to distribute. 

Lavine tries, but it still isn't a natural skill and makes a lot of bad decisions.

He also replaced Payne with Arci which helped get WCJ more shots.

As the Athletic article laid out, they did slow the pace way down after GS to try and slog out more games.

WIthout Lauri, Dunn, Portis and Valentine, this is a bottom 3 team in talent. It just is. Especially at guard, it's as thin as it gets. Arci is nice because he's well rounded offensively, but he's a sieve. Almost everyone is on this team.

Parker can pass the ball. It may not be his first instinct, and maybe sometimes he makes some bad passes, but he definitely passes the ball way more than Holiday and Blakeney. 

But again, the job of the coach is to make the players play their role. Besides for Parker/Lavine/Carter, every other guy on the Bulls (prior to Lauri returning) should be subject to immediate benching if they arent playing the game properly. Blakeney takes a shitty shot instead of dumping it back to Carter, grab some bench. Put in Harrison, put in the other jobbers on the team until you can find a group who actually play the game the way you want it to be played.

Replacing Payne should have been done way earlier. And the fact that he then gave Payne 0 minutes right after, showed he had almost no idea what was going on with the talent on the Bulls. 

You keep saying bottom 3 team? So what. A bottom 3 team can play basketball the right way. Just because your team is low on talent doesnt mean you give the green light for a bunch of guys to get bad habits and create a bigger shit show. Being a bottom team should have given Hoiberg the freedom to show what he had as a coach. 

I dont know if Hoiberg is a bad coach or a mediocre coach, I just know that hes not a good coach (right now). Besides for him being a nice guy, I saw nothing that made me want to keep him any longer. I would have fired him much earlier in the season, but I thought the Bulls were purposefully losing. So Im not sure why its not a good idea to see what someone else can do.

At least Boylen has coached under great coaches.

[Chisoxfn]

1 minute ago, Soxbadger said:

Parker can pass the ball. It may not be his first instinct, and maybe sometimes he makes some bad passes, but he definitely passes the ball way more than Holiday and Blakeney. 

But again, the job of the coach is to make the players play their role. Besides for Parker/Lavine/Carter, every other guy on the Bulls (prior to Lauri returning) should be subject to immediate benching if they arent playing the game properly. Blakeney takes a shitty shot instead of dumping it back to Carter, grab some bench. Put in Harrison, put in the other jobbers on the team until you can find a group who actually play the game the way you want it to be played.

Replacing Payne should have been done way earlier. And the fact that he then gave Payne 0 minutes right after, showed he had almost no idea what was going on with the talent on the Bulls. 

You keep saying bottom 3 team? So what. A bottom 3 team can play basketball the right way. Just because your team is low on talent doesnt mean you give the green light for a bunch of guys to get bad habits and create a bigger shit show. Being a bottom team should have given Hoiberg the freedom to show what he had as a coach. 

I dont know if Hoiberg is a bad coach or a mediocre coach, I just know that hes not a good coach (right now). Besides for him being a nice guy, I saw nothing that made me want to keep him any longer. I would have fired him much earlier in the season, but I thought the Bulls were purposefully losing. So Im not sure why its not a good idea to see what someone else can do.

At least Boylen has coached under great coaches.

Holiday is really the most interesting guy. He hasn't been bad this year, but he takes a lot of difficult shots and his fit on the roster is just not good when you are trying to get development of others. Lavine and Parker have both tried to be distributors.  Parker is actually a pretty good distributor and would do better if we had more weapons on the floor. Lavine has been trying but you can tell being the primary "distributor" is not his talent and it has caused turnover issues. That said, the opportunity and all the doubles he's experiences should be good learning opportunities for him to improve. I think things will pick up a bit with Dunn and Lauri coming back.  Portis makes them better and he's a solid player, I just don't think I can really get very excited tying up cap space to him. He isn't ever going to be a difference maker and thus I think he's a guy you hope comes back and plays well and maybe you can creatively move and get other assets (this is an absolute area that Gar/Pax have done a poor job at...maximizing their assets).  

[Soxbadger]

14 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Holiday is really the most interesting guy. He hasn't been bad this year, but he takes a lot of difficult shots and his fit on the roster is just not good when you are trying to get development of others. Lavine and Parker have both tried to be distributors.  Parker is actually a pretty good distributor and would do better if we had more weapons on the floor. Lavine has been trying but you can tell being the primary "distributor" is not his talent and it has caused turnover issues. That said, the opportunity and all the doubles he's experiences should be good learning opportunities for him to improve. I think things will pick up a bit with Dunn and Lauri coming back.  Portis makes them better and he's a solid player, I just don't think I can really get very excited tying up cap space to him. He isn't ever going to be a difference maker and thus I think he's a guy you hope comes back and plays well and maybe you can creatively move and get other assets (this is an absolute area that Gar/Pax have done a poor job at...maximizing their assets).  

I dont know what to think about Holiday. I think he could actually be a decent player. The problem is he seems to think his role is to just threes no matter what is going on in the game. That may be fine when he is shooting 40%, but the problem is he goes stretches where he shoots closer to 30%. The volume of his 3s has increased exponentially too. When he started in the league he was shooting 2 per game. Now that he is on the Bulls he went from 6 per game last year to almost 8 per game this year. In terms of overall volume, he is top 7 in total 3 point attempts. But of those top 10, he has almost half as many 2pt shots as threes, which is by far the lowest. He has over 100 more 3s than 2s, which is a pretty big anomaly. It seems like he has just been given a green light to shoot 3s at any time, but the question is that really in the Bulls best interest overall? 

Personally I think no. When Holiday starts jacking threes, the offensive flow dies. Lavine then seems to start jacking 3s. Carter doesnt get touches etc. So what is the purpose of letting Holiday go crazy every night? I mean at some point when he is having a 1-8 night, there has to be an end. 

Portis is a guy without a space. Unless he is going to be relatively cheap, its hard to suggest spending a bunch to make him a backup to Carter or Lauri. And I cant see any of the 3 of them playing SF.

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Soxbadger

[southsider2k5]

 

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, Soxbadger said:

I dont know what to think about Holiday. I think he could actually be a decent player. The problem is he seems to think his role is to just threes no matter what is going on in the game. That may be fine when he is shooting 40%, but the problem is he goes stretches where he shoots closer to 30%. The volume of his 3s has increased exponentially too. When he started in the league he was shooting 2 per game. Now that he is on the Bulls he went from 6 per game last year to almost 8 per game this year. In terms of overall volume, he is top 7 in total 3 point attempts. But of those top 10, he has almost half as many 2pt shots as threes, which is by far the lowest. He has over 100 more 3s than 2s, which is a pretty big anomaly. It seems like he has just been given a green light to shoot 3s at any time, but the question is that really in the Bulls best interest overall? 

Personally I think no. When Holiday starts jacking threes, the offensive flow dies. Lavine then seems to start jacking 3s. Carter doesnt get touches etc. So what is the purpose of letting Holiday go crazy every night? I mean at some point when he is having a 1-8 night, there has to be an end. 

Portis is a guy without a space. Unless he is going to be relatively cheap, its hard to suggest spending a bunch to make him a backup to Carter or Lauri. And I cant see any of the 3 of them playing SF.

 

Exactly. Holiday in isolation is not necessarily a bad basketball player, but on a team focused on getting other guys more touches and development, he might not be the right guy. Holiday would actually be a pretty good fit on the Lakers. He'd be a pretty solid floor spacer next to LBJ.  

[Dick Allen]

Thinking about this the timing is perfect for GarPax. With Laurie back, the team should be better so it will look like they made the right decision when they win more.

[Chisoxfn]

I must have missed it in all the Hoiberg/Boylen discussion, but Randy Brown stepped down as an assistant yesterday.  

 

https://www.nba.com/bulls/news/bulls-announce-changes-coaching-staff

[SoxAce]

Seems as if Boylen has told Markkanen "you are the top guy, be the top guy." A meh shooting night (legs still not there yet), but miles better on the defensive end. Liking what I see from Lauri. 

 

WCJ has looked awesome. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by SoxAce

[Bananarchy]

Tough to watch. However, I'd rather they be terrible than mediocre.  Get that draft pick.

[Quin]

 

[Jose Abreu]

2 hours ago, SoxAce said:

Seems as if Boylen has told Markkanen "you are the top guy, be the top guy." A meh shooting night (legs still not there yet), but miles better on the defensive end. Liking what I see from Lauri. 

 

WCJ has looked awesome. 

Agreed, I've never seen Lauri so adamant about hoisting up shots. And that's a good thing, because he's good enough to justify that mindset.

[Kyyle23]

14 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

I must have missed it in all the Hoiberg/Boylen discussion, but Randy Brown stepped down as an assistant yesterday.  

 

https://www.nba.com/bulls/news/bulls-announce-changes-coaching-staff

He was told he was being demoted and resigned instead.   Probably sick of being known as the snitch

[bmags]

31 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

He was told he was being demoted and resigned instead.   Probably sick of being known as the snitch

It appears Boylen is a better coach than I thought. He at least learns from others mistakes.

[Jenksismyhero]

14 hours ago, Quinarvy said:

 

Great, we have a coach whose philosophy doesn't fit the league or where it's going and will "grind it out" while everyone else scores 120 a game.

[Jenksismyhero]

Also, while I'm fine they got rid of Fred, it's such a stupid strategic move. This season is a disaster. Guys are hurt and/or out for the year. It's a perfect, tailor-made tank season and the reward is a selection of one of the 2-3 possible franchise prospects in the draft. If Fred was such a disaster and no one was listening to him...GOOOOOOD. They were losing at the perfect time! And no one I know cared, nor did any media locally or nationally care. It was a perfect PR tank season. Everyone expected them to be bad and then the injuries made it even worse.

I just don't get the move at all. If they start winning games because of this they royally fucked up.