Soxbadger Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: Bamba is a potential star. And no one here has said Carter is a nothing. He’s a very safe pick with the upside of being a good (not great) starting center. You continue to evaluate the pick in insolation and ignore the broader consequences. We now have a core that should be good enough to draft in the teens. Our only realistic way to get a star now is through free agency. I hope Benny’s got those balloons ready, because we now have to pull off a free agency miracle to avoid NBA hell. I evaluate the pick based on the draft pick. My thoughts on the Bulls rebuild are well documented. You can pull last years draft thread for my thoughts on Butler. You can read the NBA thread for my thoughts on winning games and messing up the tank. Ive been posting about NBA drafts on this board before the Bulls missed on Wade who was one of my favorite prospects of all time. But there is no point in rehashing all of that. When Im talking about the pick today, I am talking about the pick today. Should I keep reminding everyone how mad I was about Doug McDermott trade? I mean whats the point? You cant change the past. Today the Bulls picked a player that I personally think can be really good. You think he cant be great, I disagree. He turned 19 2 months ago. He was a top 3 player out of HS. People want to disagree and think the Bulls should have picked someone else? Feel free. You want to argue that you think the bulls should of traded up? Again thats your choice, but after all of the previous trades, I dont trust the Bulls trading picks. I personally think that after Ayton/Doncic/Bagley, Carter was in the next tier. I also think he could be better than all of them, he also could be worse. My feelings on the Bulls roster is well known, but they did the best they could (imo) with this pick. And listening to people say "Oh Carter is safe" etc, is just strange. Who else could they have taken? Its not like there was some surprise other player that no one knows about that was available and is secretly so much better than Carter with a much better ceiling. Again its the NBA draft, Im talking only about the draft. There will be an entire year for me to complain about the rest of the roster construction. But that isnt Carter's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, bmags said: There is the potential that we also just get enough good young assets they can be spun for a star. Requires Markannen/Lavine yo be a star though. And bulls FO not to fall in love with their own talent. This sounds like what we've been hoping to happen since like 2005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Just now, almagest said: This sounds like what we've been hoping to happen since like 2005. It’s what you got thou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, bmags said: There is the potential that we also just get enough good young assets they can be spun for a star. Requires Markannen/Lavine yo be a star though. And bulls FO not to fall in love with their own talent. But we need multiple stars. If we trade Markkanen for a legit star, we will be better no doubt but it won’t move the needle enough. The other problem is GarPax has a history of loving their own talent and not being willing to move it until it’s too late. Part of my frustration is knowing that our front office will only make landing a star one way or the other that much more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, bmags said: It’s what you got thou. It's just not very likely, and I even if it is I don't think GarPax will take any chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: But we need multiple stars. If we trade Markkanen for a legit star, we will be better no doubt but it won’t move the needle enough. The other problem is GarPax has a history of loving their own talent and not being willing to move it until it’s too late. Part of my frustration is knowing that our front office will only make landing a star one way or the other that much more difficult. You misunderstood. Requires markannen/Lavine to be stars to build around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, almagest said: It's just not very likely, and I even if it is I don't think GarPax will take any chances. It is literally how the Rockets have consistently built their contender. Draft the best player you can, spin the assets for better players. They also have a scouting dept larger than 3 people though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 1 minute ago, bmags said: It is literally how the Rockets have consistently built their contender. Draft the best player you can, spin the assets for better players. They also have a scouting dept larger than 3 people though. Yeah, the Rockets. Not the Bulls. I'd love to see the Bulls do that but it's probably not gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Utah makes the most Utah pick of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Soxbadger said: I evaluate the pick based on the draft pick. My thoughts on the Bulls rebuild are well documented. You can pull last years draft thread for my thoughts on Butler. You can read the NBA thread for my thoughts on winning games and messing up the tank. Ive been posting about NBA drafts on this board before the Bulls missed on Wade who was one of my favorite prospects of all time. But there is no point in rehashing all of that. When Im talking about the pick today, I am talking about the pick today. Should I keep reminding everyone how mad I was about Doug McDermott trade? I mean whats the point? You cant change the past. Today the Bulls picked a player that I personally think can be really good. You think he cant be great, I disagree. He turned 19 2 months ago. He was a top 3 player out of HS. People want to disagree and think the Bulls should have picked someone else? Feel free. You want to argue that you think the bulls should of traded up? Again thats your choice, but after all of the previous trades, I dont trust the Bulls trading picks. I personally think that after Ayton/Doncic/Bagley, Carter was in the next tier. I also think he could be better than all of them, he also could be worse. My feelings on the Bulls roster is well known, but they did the best they could (imo) with this pick. And listening to people say "Oh Carter is safe" etc, is just strange. Who else could they have taken? Its not like there was some surprise other player that no one knows about that was available and is secretly so much better than Carter with a much better ceiling. Again its the NBA draft, Im talking only about the draft. There will be an entire year for me to complain about the rest of the roster construction. But that isnt Carter's fault. Look, I can’t tell you what they should have done because I don’t know what options were out there. But I know I would have been active. I would have explored trading up to #4, I would have looked into trading down for multiple bites at the apple, and I would have strongly considered trading out of the draft for future assets. I would have done anything to maximize my chances of landing a future star. But it doesn’t really matter, because the Bulls don’t plan on tanking next year. This is the core they are going with. I don’t know how anyone can look at our roster and find a path forward that allows us to beat the Celtics or 76ers in a playoff series anytime in the near future. And that’s what we deserve, because unlike those two teams, we weren’t patient and focused on asset accumulation and instead tried to compete a rebuild as quickly as possible. I think it’s utter insanity to think we can build a championship caliber team without a single top 4 pick or an attractive free agent, but that is somehow our plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, Quinarvy said: Utah makes the most Utah pick of all time. I was yelling out thank you Utah just in case Gar and company had urges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 8 hours ago, thxfrthmmrs said: It's not the teams, 4 of those 5 teams are in rebuild. Only reason Atl or Dal is willing to trade down is there aren't much difference between talent between 3 to 6 or 3 to 7 range, so they are fielding for an offer that will entice them to move down. I hope we can somehow get Doncic and Bamba, but am 80% sure we're ending up with Carter and Hutchison. Taking the suspense out of the draft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Carter and Hutchinson are two fine picks. My only complaint is not using the cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Look, I can’t tell you what they should have done because I don’t know what options were out there. But I know I would have been active. I would have explored trading up to #4, I would have looked into trading down for multiple bites at the apple, and I would have strongly considered trading out of the draft for future assets. I would have done anything to maximize my chances of landing a future star. But it doesn’t really matter, because the Bulls don’t plan on tanking next year. This is the core they are going with. I don’t know how anyone can look at our roster and find a path forward that allows us to beat the Celtics or 76ers in a playoff series anytime in the near future. And that’s what we deserve, because unlike those two teams, we weren’t patient and focused on asset accumulation and instead tried to compete a rebuild as quickly as possible. I think it’s utter insanity to think we can build a championship caliber team without a single top 4 pick or an attractive free agent, but that is somehow our plan. We will be back to where we were 2 years ago in 2 years, in NBA hell and a 1st or 2nd round exit team. Seriously I felt dumb for giving this FO a chance. Not too long ago they were so risk averted and uncreative they couldn't get a 2nd playmaker next to Rose. Same with Butler, we signed a couple of has been's because they were available to us. The same thing we're seeing with this rebuild. We just cannot get creative or take risks to get us a star player we desperately need. Same old shit here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, Quinarvy said: Carter and Hutchinson are two fine picks. My only complaint is not using the cap space. We will let the cap space go to waste just as we let our multiple TPEs go to waste. This is not a risk taking organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Look, I can’t tell you what they should have done because I don’t know what options were out there. But I know I would have been active. I would have explored trading up to #4, I would have looked into trading down for multiple bites at the apple, and I would have strongly considered trading out of the draft for future assets. I would have done anything to maximize my chances of landing a future star. But it doesn’t really matter, because the Bulls don’t plan on tanking next year. This is the core they are going with. I don’t know how anyone can look at our roster and find a path forward that allows us to beat the Celtics or 76ers in a playoff series anytime in the near future. And that’s what we deserve, because unlike those two teams, we weren’t patient and focused on asset accumulation and instead tried to compete a rebuild as quickly as possible. I think it’s utter insanity to think we can build a championship caliber team without a single top 4 pick or an attractive free agent, but that is somehow our plan. What was at 4 that you wanted? Jaren Jackson? Trae Young? Trading down? Thats even worse. Who knows what you get next year? The Nets pick this year was supposed to be untouchable because it was a guaranteed top 4. When Cavs traded for it their were dreams of how much of an impact that it would make. It turned out it was 8. When the other team doesnt have their first pick, they dont tank. So that to me is not a really good plan at all. How do they beat the 76ers or Celtics? Well neither of those teams have even made it to the finals, so not sure why Im really concerned about them. I mean the Celtics did pretty well in the playoffs this year without their "superstars" playing. The real problem is Golden State if you want titles. And that means getting 1-2 free agent superstars, no matter who your picks were. No one in this draft is Durant, no one is likely Steph Curry. That is just the reality. And oddly enough Curry wasnt Curry when he got drafted. Becoming a super team takes some luck. Things like trading for Pippen, etc. So to be fair, Im still not happy about the Butler trade. That was a huge huge fuck up, but at least Lauri is something. Now the Bulls need to do work. In my opinion they need to try and sign./trade Lavine for picks young players. See if they can get some stuff for guys like Portis, Dunn etc from teams who think maybe they can be next level. Hope they get 1-2 lottery picks next year. Then you gotta try and get a guy like AD. That is really the path imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Liked Simons for the Bulls pick as high risk/potential bust, but once they promised Hutchinson wasnt an option obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said: We will be back to where we were 2 years ago in 2 years, in NBA hell and a 1st or 2nd round exit team. Seriously I felt dumb for giving this FO a chance. Not too long ago they were so risk averted and uncreative they couldn't get a 2nd playmaker next to Rose. Same with Butler, we signed a couple of has been's because they were available to us. The same thing we're seeing with this rebuild. We just cannot get creative or take risks to get us a star player we desperately need. Same old shit here. Well see what happens. I have very little faith in the FO, and have probably been its biggest critic on this board forever. I think they need to just sell all the shit besides for Lauri/Carter, take expiring contracts, load up on 1st round picks from other teams the next 2 years. Be bad enough to get in the top 5 at least 1 time in those 2 years and then be ready in 2020/2021 to go all out for players. The 76ers were bad for a long time. It wasnt just 2 drafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Just now, Soxbadger said: Well see what happens. I have very little faith in the FO, and have probably been its biggest critic on this board forever. I think they need to just sell all the shit besides for Lauri/Carter, take expiring contracts, load up on 1st round picks from other teams the next 2 years. Be bad enough to get in the top 5 at least 1 time in those 2 years and then be ready in 2020/2021 to go all out for players. The 76ers were bad for a long time. It wasnt just 2 drafts. I don't think anyone disagrees with you on this. None of us have faith that the Bulls will do this, though. More likely they'll end up in the mid-teens next year, draft another rotational player and continue to hope they strike gold with their 1 draft pick or someone on the roster takes the next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Given how I have ranted about how predictable the Bulls are, I will given one more prediction tonight. we will buy a 2nd round pick this year after the PR nightmare from last year, because we do have the capital this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Just now, thxfrthmmrs said: Given how I have ranted about how predictable the Bulls are, I will given one more prediction tonight. we will buy a 2nd round pick this year after the PR nightmare from last year, because we do have the capital this year. Id be down for Mitchell Robinson. Definitely worth a flier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Soxbadger said: Well see what happens. I have very little faith in the FO, and have probably been its biggest critic on this board forever. I think they need to just sell all the shit besides for Lauri/Carter, take expiring contracts, load up on 1st round picks from other teams the next 2 years. Be bad enough to get in the top 5 at least 1 time in those 2 years and then be ready in 2020/2021 to go all out for players. The 76ers were bad for a long time. It wasnt just 2 drafts. Sorry I don't think the Bulls will be bad enough to be in top 5. We will resign Lavine because GarPax is risk averted and devoid of any creativity. We will be in the 7 to 11 range is my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Soxbadger said: Id be down for Mitchell Robinson. Definitely worth a flier. Robinson, Bates-Diop, and Trent Jr are the only guys I will take a flier at at this point. Don't mind if they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said: Sorry I don't think the Bulls will be bad enough to be in top 5. We will resign Lavine because GarPax is risk averted and devoid of any creativity. We will be in the 7 to 11 range is my guess. I think they re-sign Lavine because they dont want to admit how terrible last years trade was. How they gave up their own first and didnt get Minnesota's first this year is insanity, especially since Lavine was injured and barely had any control left. And im not saying the Bulls will be bad enough to be 5. Im saying that this their path to a championship. They arent winning one this year, next year or probably in 3 years. The only guys on their roster who I project really wanting in 3 years is Carter/Lauri. Thats why I think they should just trade everyone, take back other teams really shitty players for first round picks. They probably wont do it, but that is how you turn this franchise around. The aim has to be for a guy like AD and see if hell bring some friends. With the Sox going full out tank, I think there is a very slight chance the Bulls could try it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said: Robinson, Bates-Diop, and Trent Jr are the only guys I will take a flier at at this point. Don't mind if they do. Giannis brother to try and get Giannis to the Bulls! I could also go for a guy like Malik Newman. I mean really anyone is worth a shot when you have money to burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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