2018-2019 Official NBA thread

[fathom]

Absolutely hate the two Bulls picks. Have followed carter since high school when he had interest in GT. He disappeared far too often at Duke, as I though they were better when he was off the court sometimes.  

[BigHurt3515]

4 minutes ago, fathom said:

Absolutely hate the two Bulls picks. Have followed carter since high school when he had interest in GT. He disappeared far too often at Duke, as I though they were better when he was off the court sometimes.  

He was 4th option at best on the court. Allen and Bagley dominated most of the offense, give him time

[Chicago White Sox]

19 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

Well see what happens. I have very little faith in the FO, and have probably been its biggest critic on this board forever.

I think they need to just sell all the shit besides for Lauri/Carter, take expiring contracts, load up on 1st round picks from other teams the next 2 years. Be bad enough to get in the top 5 at least 1 time in those 2 years and then be ready in 2020/2021 to go all out for players.

The 76ers were bad for a long time. It wasnt just 2 drafts.

See, that’s a plan I could get behind.  But unfortunately that’s not the plan.  We are going for it with this core and one free agent signing next offseason.  That is how GarPax work.  And the problem is that free agent signing will likely be a Carlos Boozer tier free agent because history has shown elite free agents don’t come to Chicago.  The Carter pick may be fine in isolation, but it’s what it represents in the larger scheme of things that’s the problem.  This organization has no balls and only cares about being good enough to keep the house packed.  Carter helps get us closer to fringe contender and that’s all that Michael Reinsdorf & GarPax care about.

[thxfrthmmrs]

11 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

I think they re-sign Lavine because they dont want to admit how terrible last years trade was. How they gave up their own first and didnt get Minnesota's first this year is insanity, especially since Lavine was injured and barely had any control left.

And im not saying the Bulls will be bad enough to be 5. Im saying that this their path to a championship. They arent winning one this year, next year or probably in 3 years. The only guys on their roster who I project really wanting in 3 years is Carter/Lauri. Thats why I think they should just trade everyone, take back other teams really shitty players for first round picks.

They probably wont do it, but that is how you turn this franchise around. The aim has to be for a guy like AD and see if hell bring some friends.

With the Sox going full out tank, I think there is a very slight chance the Bulls could try it to. 

The bolded is correct.

Their path to championship could have been a top 3 pick, but given both WCJ and Hutchison are high floor players, along with resigning of Lavine, they will not be bad enough to get there.. I think realistically they path to contention was be AD in 2020. I think the better long term move would have been to trade a top 10 protected 2019 pick along with maybe Portis for #3. If Doncic bombs, you're bad enough for maybe a top 5 next season. If Doncic is a star as a playmaker, you would have a much better chance to bring AD home in 2020.

While I think WCJ over MPJ is the correct move, I also think not taking a risk at Doncic is the incorrect move.

[Soxbadger]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

See, that’s a plan I could get behind.  But unfortunately that’s not the plan.  We are going for it with this core and one free agent signing next offseason.  That is how GarPax work.  And the problem is that free agent signing will likely be a Carlos Boozer tier free agent because history has shown elite free agents don’t come to Chicago.  The Carter pick may be fine in isolation, but it’s what it represents in the larger scheme of things that’s the problem.  This organization has no balls and only cares about being good enough to keep the house packed.  Carter helps get us closer to fringe contender and that’s all that Michael Reinsdorf & GarPax care about.

This is all most likely true. But Im hoping that after the Sox rebuild, the Reinsdorf is willing to realize that the Bulls are nowhere near Golden State, and the Zach Lavine's of the world dont suddenly become Lebron James. 

[Soxbadger]

1 minute ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

The bolded is correct.

Their path to championship could have been a top 3 pick, but given both WCJ and Hutchison are high floor players, along with resigning of Lavine, they will not be bad enough to get there.. I think realistically they path to contention was be AD in 2020. I think the better long term move would have been to trade a top 10 protected 2019 pick along with maybe Portis for #3. If Doncic bombs, you're bad enough for maybe a top 5 next season. If Doncic is a star as a playmaker, you would have a much better chance to bring AD home in 2020.

While I think WCJ over MPJ is the correct move, I also think not taking a risk at Doncic is the incorrect move.

I think the problem with the Doncic trade is it seems Atlanta wanted Young. For the trade are you saying 7, next year top 10 protected and Portis or just the top 10 and Portis? Because I dont think the Hawks were just giving away Doncic, I think they wanted Young more and they were able to get their guy and move down a little.

If Orlando wasnt in front of the Bulls, the Hawks may have gambled if the Bulls were willing to overpay, but it just seems like Young was their guy. 

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

I think the problem with the Doncic trade is it seems Atlanta wanted Young. For the trade are you saying 7, next year top 10 protected and Portis or just the top 10 and Portis? Because I dont think the Hawks were just giving away Doncic, I think they wanted Young more and they were able to get their guy and move down a little.

If Orlando wasnt in front of the Bulls, the Hawks may have gambled if the Bulls were willing to overpay, but it just seems like Young was their guy. 

This is true. We’re in a worse position. Would have had to give up a top 5 protected pick too, plus maybe 22. But maybe that wasn’t enough. Atl has a guy, and would only move if they could guarantee that. Couldnt do it without moving Orlando out ahead of them.

but just wish we’d have overpaid for a guy I think could be a star.

[thxfrthmmrs]

10 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

I think the problem with the Doncic trade is it seems Atlanta wanted Young. For the trade are you saying 7, next year top 10 protected and Portis or just the top 10 and Portis? Because I dont think the Hawks were just giving away Doncic, I think they wanted Young more and they were able to get their guy and move down a little.

If Orlando wasnt in front of the Bulls, the Hawks may have gambled if the Bulls were willing to overpay, but it just seems like Young was their guy. 

7, Portis, and protected 2019 for the #3. But you're right that Orlando seemed like they were PG first and Bamba 2nd. If they were the issue I would have done a 3 way trade where I have Dunn and 22nd going to Orlando, future 1st (top 5 protected) going from Orlando to Hawks, and #3 and #34 going from ATL to Bulls. Dunn is a nice player, but I personally would have given him up for a chance at a star. Again, the risk is Doncic bombs and you're really bad next year and are in Top 5 or even 3 range. But those are chance you take in a rebuild.

Edited June 22, 2018 by thxfrthmmrs

[Soxbadger]

8 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

7, Portis, and protected 2019 for the #3. But you're right that Orlando seemed like they were PG first and Bamba 2nd. If they were the issue I would have done a 3 way trade where I have Dunn and 22nd going to Orlando, future 1st (top 5 protected) going from Orlando to Hawks, and #3 and #34 going from ATL to Bulls. Dunn is a nice player, but I personally would have given him up for a chance at a star. Again, the risk is Doncic bombs and you're really bad next year and are in Top 5 or even 3 range. But those are chance you take in a rebuild.

Id have gotten rid of Dunn in a second. The problem is that again was a guy that the Bulls paraded around as a big part of the Butler trade.

I also just think that trade is pretty complex to pull off. Basically the Bulls needed to get a promise from ATL that if they get the Orlando pick they make X deal. Then they have to trade with Orlando, not tipping Orlando off that they are using their pick because otherwise Orlando would hold out for the world. 

I think that its possible to have worked. And had the Bulls gotten the Wolves 1st for this year, I think they definitely could have pulled off using 1 st to trade with Orlando, then the other first to trade with ATL.

But that goes back to how bad the Wolves trade was. They needed more 1st rounders, and they just swapped them, plus added guys Wolves didnt want. I just still dont know what they were thinking. Its really one of the worst trades fora  rebuilding team when you look at it.

[Buehrle>Wood]

This garpax press conference is just awful 

[fathom]

1 minute ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

This garpax press conference is just awful 

Well yeah, they can't tell Jerry they saved him 3 million like they could last year

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

Id have gotten rid of Dunn in a second. The problem is that again was a guy that the Bulls paraded around as a big part of the Butler trade.

I also just think that trade is pretty complex to pull off. Basically the Bulls needed to get a promise from ATL that if they get the Orlando pick they make X deal. Then they have to trade with Orlando, not tipping Orlando off that they are using their pick because otherwise Orlando would hold out for the world. 

I think that its possible to have worked. And had the Bulls gotten the Wolves 1st for this year, I think they definitely could have pulled off using 1 st to trade with Orlando, then the other first to trade with ATL.

But that goes back to how bad the Wolves trade was. They needed more 1st rounders, and they just swapped them, plus added guys Wolves didnt want. I just still dont know what they were thinking. Its really one of the worst trades fora  rebuilding team when you look at it.

This is just spot on.

[thxfrthmmrs]

16 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

Id have gotten rid of Dunn in a second. The problem is that again was a guy that the Bulls paraded around as a big part of the Butler trade.

I also just think that trade is pretty complex to pull off. Basically the Bulls needed to get a promise from ATL that if they get the Orlando pick they make X deal. Then they have to trade with Orlando, not tipping Orlando off that they are using their pick because otherwise Orlando would hold out for the world. 

I think that its possible to have worked. And had the Bulls gotten the Wolves 1st for this year, I think they definitely could have pulled off using 1 st to trade with Orlando, then the other first to trade with ATL.

But that goes back to how bad the Wolves trade was. They needed more 1st rounders, and they just swapped them, plus added guys Wolves didnt want. I just still dont know what they were thinking. Its really one of the worst trades fora  rebuilding team when you look at it.

You basically have to get Orlando's blessing in this trade, that they're willing to take WCJ, Dunn, and 22nd, while not drafting Young and give a Top 5 protected pick next year. I would have at least like to hear the Bulls made a serious attempt to trade up. Part of the frustration from the fan base all these years is they're not capable of even attempting this type of trade.

[Quin]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

Absolutely hate the two Bulls picks. Have followed carter since high school when he had interest in GT. He disappeared far too often at Duke, as I though they were better when he was off the court sometimes.  

But on the other hand, you hate everything.

[Soxbadger]

18 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

You basically have to get Orlando's blessing in this trade, that they're willing to take WCJ, Dunn, and 22nd, while not drafting Young and give a Top 5 protected pick next year. I would have at least like to hear the Bulls made a serious attempt to trade up. Part of the frustration from the fan base all these years is they're not capable of even attempting this type of trade.

They traded up for McDermott... But the main issue is that when they do trade, they seem to lose big. 

[fathom]

Simply stunning to me Brandon McCoy went undrafted. Thought he would be a definite lottery pick after seeing a few games of his early in the year.

[Quin]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

Simply stunning to me Brandon McCoy went undrafted. Thought he would be a definite lottery pick after seeing a few games of his early in the year.

I believe Arci's 2-way deal is done. Bulls should snap up McCoy.

[Soxbadger]

 

Im hoping that means the tank is on again this year.

 

[dasox24]

4 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

 

Im hoping that means the tank is on again this year.

 

I was slightly encouraged to see that quote.  I, too, hope that means they're planning on tanking again.  Of course, with the changes to the lottery in 2019, full tank-mode doesn't help quite as much as it used to.  But I'll take whatever we can get.

[Jake]

One risk of the revised system is that it may ultimately offer some perverse incentive to have more teams tank since it moves the threshold for decent odds further away from worst record. Either way, it probably helps the Bulls who are likely to be a little too good to have the league's worst record.

[thxfrthmmrs]

I also think had we not able to move up, we should have attempted to move down. Zhaire Smith at 15 would have been a high risk and high reward pick we should make in a rebuild. We could have move back from 7 to 10 to draft Bridges and pick up Phillies' late first or early 2nd. Then trade Bridges to acquire Smith and a completely unprotected 2021 1st. Those are the risks you should be taking as a rebuild team.

And Jake is right, I think WCJ and Hutch can contribute right away, and we will be close to top 10 than top 5 next year.

 

[Dick Allen]

41 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

I also think had we not able to move up, we should have attempted to move down. Zhaire Smith at 15 would have been a high risk and high reward pick we should make in a rebuild. We could have move back from 7 to 10 to draft Bridges and pick up Phillies' late first or early 2nd. Then trade Bridges to acquire Smith and a completely unprotected 2021 1st. Those are the risks you should be taking as a rebuild team.

And Jake is right, I think WCJ and Hutch can contribute right away, and we will be close to top 10 than top 5 next year.

 

The problem with staying where they are and taking the "safe" pick, is it makes them a better team, but it doesn't, in reality, increase their chances at legitimate title contention. 

That's why they have to roll the dice. If it doesn't work, they are terrible, which in the NBA, makes you closer to a title than average, unless you are a team that can attract the elite free agents, something the Bulls haven't been able to do. They get used by the elites.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Dick Allen

[bmags]

4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The problem with staying where they are and taking the "safe" pick, is it makes them a better team, but it doesn't, in reality, increase their chances at legitimate title contention. 

That's why they have to roll the dice. If it doesn't work, they are terrible, which in the NBA, makes you closer to a title than average, unless you are a team that can attract the elite free agents, something the Bulls haven't been able to do. They get used by the elites.

I do think there is a good case to be made that drafting the best player you think exists in the hopes of compiling assets to have ready to trade out when a team is being forced to trade a star or is ready to offload a top draft pick is equally fine in order to get the stars needed to compete.

The thing that obviously undercuts it is our front office is unlikely to operate this way and is more likely just to fall in love with some good not great players who try hard (cough taj gibson). Evidence of this exists in their not investing into a larger scouting and analytics department when they decided to rebuild, it is in fact one of the smallest depts in the league. If they were planning on finding value whereever it exists, you'd want a system to do that. The bulls do not have it.

I'm sympathetic to the view that Carter was a good pick, will be good, but also this is a bad sign of things to come. They kept Robin Lopez thinking his value could be turned into something, it didn't, his value to the bulls on play time directly undercut their value in the draft. Same with Niko, they made a bet it would work out in their favor, I do not expect it to.

In my alternate reality, we traded future assets to get Doncic, whom I think will be a star. We sign Clint Capela to pair next to Lauri. Try and find a better PG fit for the pace. We roll with this core and try to find consistently more 3pt shooting and develop a 3rd star.

Capela is RFA, i would "overpay" in hoping Rockets view lack of flexibility as too big of an issue. Or, you drafted Robert Williams as C at 22 and try to trade him to them later.

That is a future I have confidence in. This one, still have zero clue. 

[Dick Allen]

21 minutes ago, bmags said:

I do think there is a good case to be made that drafting the best player you think exists in the hopes of compiling assets to have ready to trade out when a team is being forced to trade a star or is ready to offload a top draft pick is equally fine in order to get the stars needed to compete.

The thing that obviously undercuts it is our front office is unlikely to operate this way and is more likely just to fall in love with some good not great players who try hard (cough taj gibson). Evidence of this exists in their not investing into a larger scouting and analytics department when they decided to rebuild, it is in fact one of the smallest depts in the league. If they were planning on finding value whereever it exists, you'd want a system to do that. The bulls do not have it.

I'm sympathetic to the view that Carter was a good pick, will be good, but also this is a bad sign of things to come. They kept Robin Lopez thinking his value could be turned into something, it didn't, his value to the bulls on play time directly undercut their value in the draft. Same with Niko, they made a bet it would work out in their favor, I do not expect it to.

In my alternate reality, we traded future assets to get Doncic, whom I think will be a star. We sign Clint Capela to pair next to Lauri. Try and find a better PG fit for the pace. We roll with this core and try to find consistently more 3pt shooting and develop a 3rd star.

Capela is RFA, i would "overpay" in hoping Rockets view lack of flexibility as too big of an issue. Or, you drafted Robert Williams as C at 22 and try to trade him to them later.

That is a future I have confidence in. This one, still have zero clue. 

I agree. My issue isn't Carter. He's a fine player, but I don't see NBA finals because of him. They needed to do what they could do to move up. Just staying where they were, they did what anyone would do with 7. If the Porter medicals were bad, and they must have been if so many teams passed, then they have to take Carter, or trade it. They seem to think they can develop players into stars because of Jimmy Butler. If they really were that good at it, they wouldn't be in this situation. Maybe they get lucky and a star FA signs with them eventually. I will not be holding my breath.

[bmags]

RIght, based on past history it seemed the most likely area bulls could succeed in a rebuild is via draft, it seems less likely that will be available. Lucy with the football.