Balta1701 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Well, Lebron opting out basically takes the Houston superteam out of the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Well, Lebron opting out basically takes the Houston superteam out of the picture. Why is that? They couldn't still do a "sign and trade"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 29, 2018 Author Share Posted June 29, 2018 12 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: Bulls are reportedly telling teams they are willing to help facilitate transactions by taking bad contracts off their hands. Good. Hope to see it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 14 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: Bulls are reportedly telling teams they are willing to help facilitate transactions by taking bad contracts off their hands. Good. Wouldn't this have made more sense before the draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 1 minute ago, Harry Chappas said: Wouldn't this have made more sense before the draft? Think teams are more willing to give up 1st round picks now then they were right before draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, Soxbadger said: Think teams are more willing to give up 1st round picks now then they were right before draft. Exactly; Bulls were willing entering the draft, but the whole concept of Memphis giving up a #4 pick purely for a contract like Parsons was nuts. Now maybe they give up a future 1st rounder (whether there is a bit more uncertainty, lottery protections, etc added in). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 6 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: Wouldn't this have made more sense before the draft? 5 minutes ago, Soxbadger said: Think teams are more willing to give up 1st round picks now then they were right before draft. In addition, during the draft is still 2017-18 cap constraints, now it's the new year. They would have really struggled to fit Parsons on last years budget, now they could swallow some big contracts for assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 On 6/28/2018 at 11:52 AM, Chisoxfn said: Why? What exactly have they screwed up since the Butler deal? Did they screw up the 7th overall draft pick a year ago when they arguably got one of the 3 best players in the draft? Did they not get quality development out of Dunn this past year? Lavine has to still be evaluated but that shouldn't be a major surprise given he was coming back from an ACL injury. Yes, the Bulls didn't suck as bad as everyone expected but they got two quality picks in this past draft. So people wanted us to suck and now they are knocking on the Butler deal? I thought there was only a very small minority who were against the Butler deal? I'm not as sour on the Butler deal as a lot of folks around here, but the fact we didn't keep our own pick was really bad IMO. Hard for me to believe the Wolves would have walked away had we insisted on keeping our 1st rounder out of the deal, but it seems we blinked first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 I hate that there's a legitimate Lonzo Ball to the Bulls rumor. I hate that I want it to happen and know it won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, thxfrthmmrs said: I think you're giving too much credit to this FO. The biggest offense was resigning Mirotic when their goal was to tank and rebuild. This is a well known symptom with the Bulls for many years, that they simply cannot let average players go for nothing, even though it doesn't align with the goal of the team. Which is why I fully expect them to overpay and retain Lavine. Had we not had the Mirotic effect, we likely be looking at a 1st or 2nd pick. When it's all said and done, but we effectively moved up from 37th pick to the 22nd pick while taking on $14M future salary. But moved up from the worst record to the 6/7th worst. Second biggest offense is after we lucked into getting Bell at a spot much lower than most expected him to go, we sold him for cash considerations. General consensus was this is a bad move at the time (not revisionist history). Bell now looks like the next Clint Capela with maybe even more impact defensively and a better passer. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a top 10-15 pick this draft. Third biggest offense was poor talent evaluation and overpaid for Felicio who has only shown glimpse of potential but as the same time limitations. The worst part is locking him up for 4 years. I'm also surprised they couldn't at least get rid of Holiday, or even Lopez, but I will cut them some slack on this one. So had these moves not screwed up for us, we'd like be looking at a core of Bell/Lauri/Doncic/Dunn with money for 2 max players this and next year. I'll give credit to them for hitting the the Lauri pick and buying low on Dunn. But they haven't gotten much right for this rebuild ever since. 1) I didn't mind the Mirotic signing. He didn't have much trade value at the time and it wasn't a bad contract. Given how he had played up to that point, I don't think any would have guessed that he was actually good enough to tip the scale and make the Bulls win at a pretty decent clip for a bad team. 2) I also don't see the big deal selling that 2nd round pick. Yes, Bell ended up being pretty good, and yes, it didn't really seem like a necessary move, but end of the day the odds were against that pick being anything meaningful. If Bell was such a certainty he wouldn't have gone 2nd round. 3) Agree on Felicio. You also missed out on their love affair with Payne and the pretty bad deal to get rid of McDermott and Gibson. IMO the biggest mistakes in the last 5-6 years were: 1) not tanking fully (even if it meant getting rid of Thibs, who I loved, but is vastly overrated as a coach) after Rose got hurt the 2nd time. That would have been a perfect opportunity to grab a top 5 guy in the following draft, possibly pulling off a Robinson/Duncan type scenario. Obviously it didn't play out that way as Rose is made of glass, but we basically ruined Noah's career over a worthless 2nd round exit. 2) the McDermott trade to draft him, which I was all for since they needed a shooter and he was the best one, but in hindsight that was really bad 3) the revolving door of PG's, especially the trade to bring in Payne. What a waste. I'm not ready to say the Butler trade was a total disaster. I probably would have kept him and tried to go the FA route, but they needed to move him or they'd be stuck in NBA hell given that no FA's come to Chicago. Giving up that 1st was stupid. But if Dunn and Markennan can develop, I think that's about the best you can do for a fringe top 15 player. Edited June 29, 2018 by Jenksismyhero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, Steve9347 said: I hate that there's a legitimate Lonzo Ball to the Bulls rumor. I hate that I want it to happen and know it won't. Oh god, why? The last thing this town needs is Ball's dad in the papers everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jenksismyhero said: 1) I didn't mind the Mirotic signing. He didn't have much trade value at the time and it wasn't a bad contract. Given how he had played up to that point, I don't think any would have guessed that he was actually good enough to tip the scale and make the Bulls win at a pretty decent clip for a bad team. I enjoyed this read from a couple days ago on this subject: Quote The Bulls never had any idea how good Nikola Mirotic was, something they proved time and time again. I cannot remember one team misevaluating its own player to such a significant degree for so many years. Behind every major f*** up, there was Mirotic standing off in the distance. There is no greater monument to the incompetence of the Bulls’ front office than the signing of Dwyane Wade. The move was ostensibly made to give Jimmy Butler a true co-headliner with Derrick Rose, Pau Gasol and Joakim Noah finally out of the picture. The Bulls believed in this so much that they wildly overbid against themselves, essentially paying Wade $39 million for one season of work. The irony here is that the Bulls had a great co-star for Butler already on the roster. That was Mirotic. The Bulls should have empowered Niko by using his shooting to space the floor around Butler and his ball handling to alleviate Jimmy’s massive creation burden. Instead, they eliminated all the agency from his role, reducing Mirotic to spot-ups in the corner as Butler and Wade dribbled for 18 consecutive seconds and Rajon Rondo ran around in circles. Rondo got hurt, the prophecy of Bulls in six never happened, and the front office decided it was better to trade Butler than pay him the extension he rightfully earned two summers from now. From the moment the Bulls traded Butler, their plan was clear: lose, lose, lose and lose some more, with the ultimate goal being getting the first pick in the draft. The Bulls blew it badly this time too, and it was all because of Mirotic. The Bulls’ undervalued Niko so much that they never even considered the possibility he’d ruin the tank. For three years, he was maddeningly inconsistent, a fever dream of pump fakes and poor shot selection, always better in theory than in reality. But when given real agency for the first time in his career, Mirotic turned into a star. With him in the lineup, the team that was 3-20 started winning at a pace that would have equaled 46 victories and the No. 5 seed in the East if spread out over the course of the entire season. Mirotic is a top-50 player in this league, but the Bulls never realized it until Wade’s check had cleared and their draft pick was ruined. Yes, he fetched the Bulls the No. 22 pick that would eventually turn into Hutchison, but even that only happened after the Bulls ate another $16 million. Mirotic will go down as one of the most frustrating players in franchise history, someone who was never good enough until the exact moment they stopped needing him to be good. Was that the Bulls’ fault or Mirotic’s? Regardless of how you answer that, the front office’s complete inability to properly evaluate their own player is going to impact this franchise for longer than anyone anticipated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) oh geez, the signing of Wade should have been on my list. I was fine giving it a go with Wade/Rondo and Butler, but not for the exorbitant price they paid when no one else in teh league was going to offer him that much. Edited June 29, 2018 by Jenksismyhero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jenksismyhero said: oh geez, the signing of Wade should have been on my list. I was fine giving it a go with Wade/Rondo and Butler, but not for the exorbitant price they paid when no one else in teh league was going to offer him that much. That was the only reason he left Miami. For better or obviously worse, he wasn't going to leave Miami without a truck of cash backed into his driveway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Lavar Ball vs this front office would be a lot more entertaining than anything the FO is capable of putting on the court. Please happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 What is this Lonzo Ball rumor? Is it like Ball and Deng to the Bulls for a 2nd round pick or something? Otherwise I have a hard time figuring out how the Bulls could possibility be involved in a Lonzo Ball trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Not sure how I see the bulls as a trade partner for Ball. I wouldnt give up next years first. I guess if somehow you can sign trade Lavine? But really what else. If they wanted Dunn, then Id really second guess trading him because I think Pop is a good talent evaluator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Just now, Soxbadger said: Not sure how I see the bulls as a trade partner for Ball. I wouldnt give up next years first. I guess if somehow you can sign trade Lavine? But really what else. If they wanted Dunn, then Id really second guess trading him because I think Pop is a good talent evaluator. I would move Dunn for Ball quite readily even if Dunn is a better player right now. I can't see any way that Lavine works into that equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 45 minutes ago, Soxbadger said: Not sure how I see the bulls as a trade partner for Ball. I wouldnt give up next years first. I guess if somehow you can sign trade Lavine? But really what else. If they wanted Dunn, then Id really second guess trading him because I think Pop is a good talent evaluator. I would move next year’s first for Ball in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 1 minute ago, Steve9347 said: I would move next year’s first for Ball in a heartbeat. Talent wise, I would do that in a heartbeat. The problem is I don't want to deal with Lavar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 41 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I would move Dunn for Ball quite readily even if Dunn is a better player right now. And not think twice. If his daddy wasn't so extra, Lakers wouldn't be entertaining trading somebody like him. Dude is only 20 years old too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Just now, SoxAce said: And not think twice. If his daddy wasn't so extra, Lakers wouldn't be entertaining trading somebody like him. Dude is only 20 years old too. They'd move him if it gave them a strong shot at a superteam and wouldn't think twice, regardless of who his family is. They might have a legit shot if the Spurs are willing to deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Just now, Balta1701 said: They'd move him if it gave them a strong shot at a superteam and wouldn't think twice, regardless of who his family is. They might have a legit shot if the Spurs are willing to deal. Yea but they would be trading an Ingram, Randle, etc to make the contracts work, not Ball since those guys play the wing. Obviously Lavar makes the decision much easier for Magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 9 minutes ago, Steve9347 said: I would move next year’s first for Ball in a heartbeat. Maybe if it was lottery protected, otherwise no real interest in Ball at all. Hes not the player that youre looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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