Dick Allen Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 20 minutes ago, justBLAZE said: If they match, will they have cap for 2 MAX next offseason? Like they are ever going to sign 2 max guys. Child please. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Officially matched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 They don’t have enough talent to let him walk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Just love paying the dumbest players on the court the most money 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, bmags said: Just love paying the dumbest players on the court the most money Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: They don’t have enough talent to let him walk. This is true as well unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: They don’t have enough talent to let him walk. I agree. LaVine has his flaws and this contract could be a problem in a few years, but he does have superstar upside and I don’t see a choice but gambling on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Is there a more frustrating owner in sports in JR? All of his employee has lifetime job security so why make the risky moves? Just remain at status quo so we can make a 1st round PO appearance in a couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 2 hours ago, justBLAZE said: If they match, will they have cap for 2 MAX next offseason? Not counting re-upping Portis or a Nwaba deal, they'll just barely have two slots. $43M in cap. http://www.shamsports.com/capulator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 37 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said: Is there a more frustrating owner in sports in JR? All of his employee has lifetime job security so why make the risky moves? Just remain at status quo so we can make a 1st round PO appearance in a couple years. Is this a serious question? There are dozens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 I’m glad they didn’t b**** out. The kid is the same age as their 1-22 and has as much upside as anyone. You don’t give LaVine away when you need talent. Would you rather they spend this money on guys like DeAndre Jordan?? Letting LaVine walk would have been astronomically stupid. Anyone who disagrees is a Russian spy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Quinarvy said: Not counting re-upping Portis or a Nwaba deal, they'll just barely have two slots. $43M in cap. http://www.shamsports.com/capulator They would need to move Felicio though. Hard to do but can probably use Portis or Valentine to move him. This was a little more than I’d want to pay. Would have preferred a 1 plus 1 deal but at least this deal has protections against his knee. Gifted scorer who is young and athletic and hopefully he can get that positive trajectory going after a season of “rehab”. Having two max spots is huge though. Opens up a lot of possibilities. Also plenty of opportunity to fail but swing big baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Quinarvy said: Is this a serious question? There are dozens. JR isn't a bad owner, I admire his commitment to win for both of his franchises. But his loyalty to his employees is a double edged sword and it's incredibly frustrating in the current landscape of the Bulls. Guys like Robin Ventura and Gar, Pax clearly aren't the right person for the job and would have been let go a long time ago by other franchises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 28 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: They would need to move Felicio though. Hard to do but can probably use Portis or Valentine to move him. This was a little more than I’d want to pay. Would have preferred a 1 plus 1 deal but at least this deal has protections against his knee. Gifted scorer who is young and athletic and hopefully he can get that positive trajectory going after a season of “rehab”. Having two max spots is huge though. Opens up a lot of possibilities. Also plenty of opportunity to fail but swing big baby! Trade him for Melo. Buyout Melo. 22 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said: JR isn't a bad owner, I admire his commitment to win for both of his franchises. But his loyalty to his employees is a double edged sword and it's incredibly frustrating in the current landscape of the Bulls. Guys like Robin Ventura and Gar, Pax clearly aren't the right person for the job and would have been let go a long time ago by other franchises. Ok, now I gotcha. His loyalty can indeed be frustrating. But l guess it's the combination of him being hyper loyal and not a Vivek-level fool that makes it frustrating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 8 hours ago, Steve9347 said: I’m glad they didn’t b**** out. The kid is the same age as their 1-22 and has as much upside as anyone. You don’t give LaVine away when you need talent. Would you rather they spend this money on guys like DeAndre Jordan?? Letting LaVine walk would have been astronomically stupid. Anyone who disagrees is a Russian spy. Deandre Jordan ... what? Look at the other $20 mill players. Congrats, we just signed a taller JR Smith to $20 mill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 48 minutes ago, bmags said: Deandre Jordan ... what? Look at the other $20 mill players. Congrats, we just signed a taller JR Smith to $20 mill. Maybe, but GarPax chose this lane.the lane of “developing” players. Forget that in this league 99% of the time you are what you are at Lavines point. The fact is they made him out to be a star when they acquired him. Told him to take his time in rehab then come back with all these restrictions and seemingly soured on him when he wasn’t Michael Jordan. He will be better than he was, and GarPax is looking to make the playoffs. No more tanking. They are about development. What would it say if they gave up on trying to develop their most athletic player because he wasn’t all star caliber after a long layoff and minutes restriction? They did what they had to do. Chances are it won’t work out. It is something everyone except GarPax can see coming forever, just like next year when they get trumped for free agents by the Lakers and Sixers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 hour ago, bmags said: Deandre Jordan ... what? Look at the other $20 mill players. Congrats, we just signed a slightly smarter JR Smith to $20 mill. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Dick Allen said: Maybe, but GarPax chose this lane.the lane of “developing” players. Forget that in this league 99% of the time you are what you are at Lavines point. The fact is they made him out to be a star when they acquired him. Told him to take his time in rehab then come back with all these restrictions and seemingly soured on him when he wasn’t Michael Jordan. He will be better than he was, and GarPax is looking to make the playoffs. No more tanking. They are about development. What would it say if they gave up on trying to develop their most athletic player because he wasn’t all star caliber after a long layoff and minutes restriction? They did what they had to do. Chances are it won’t work out. It is something everyone except GarPax can see coming forever, just like next year when they get trumped for free agents by the Lakers and Sixers. The issue isn't Lavine himself. Lavine might turn out to be a 23-5-4 player (with bad defense, bad team basketball, and lots of bad shot attempts), it is that we effective taken ourselves out of signing 2 max deals next summer (class of Jimmy, Kyrie, Leoard, KD, Klay, so on), and AD sweepstake in 2020 (hard to imagine AD coming here without a true perimeter star player). I know we haven't had luck in landing max level players in the past, but given up prematurely and throwing $20m at Lavine is just a lazy move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said: The issue isn't Lavine himself. Lavine might turn out to be a 23-5-4 player (with bad defense, bad team basketball, and lots of bad shot attempts), it is that we effective taken ourselves out of signing 2 max deals next summer (class of Jimmy, Kyrie, Leoard, KD, Klay, so on), and AD sweepstake in 2020 (hard to imagine AD coming here without a true perimeter star player). I know we haven't had luck in landing max level players in the past, but given up prematurely and throwing $20m at Lavine is just a lazy move. It’s a move they backed themselves into a corner and had to make. They still have space for one star, and probably could make it for 2 if that was needed. I am thinking it won’t be needed, unless they brought in a new decision maker. Jimmy isn’t coming back let alone bring Kyrie with him. All those others will sign somewhere else. The Bulls as long as the same clowns are in place, will be used and abused by players and agents. I don’t think Lavine will ever reach his potential, but I do think the odds are way better he develops into a star than the Bulls signing 2 max guys. Edited July 7, 2018 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 4 hours ago, Dick Allen said: It’s a move they backed themselves into a corner and had to make. They still have space for one star, and probably could make it for 2 if that was needed. I am thinking it won’t be needed, unless they brought in a new decision maker. Jimmy isn’t coming back let alone bring Kyrie with him. All those others will sign somewhere else. The Bulls as long as the same clowns are in place, will be used and abused by players and agents. I don’t think Lavine will ever reach his potential, but I do think the odds are way better he develops into a star than the Bulls signing 2 max guys. There are already a lot of rumors Jimmy and Kyrie wants to play together so the seed is already planted. Staying in the East would be ge smart thing to do for them, and Boston may be the only contender the Bulls have in the East. I’m not going to go into a lengthy debate on why the Bulls is preferred over the Celtics or vice versa, but we should be in the running. Now we’re out of the running unless a miracle happens. The bigger issue you mentioned is by signing Lavine, the Bulls have acknowleged they had trouble landing stars in the past and are willing to settle for paying big bucks to 2nd and 3 tier players. Rather than correcting the issue which is the culture and the image of this franchise we are choosing to not even cross that road. It is an incredibly irresponsible thing to do because in the NBA the teams with the most stars are the only that will go deep in playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 14 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said: There are already a lot of rumors Jimmy and Kyrie wants to play together so the seed is already planted. Staying in the East would be ge smart thing to do for them, and Boston may be the only contender the Bulls have in the East. I’m not going to go into a lengthy debate on why the Bulls is preferred over the Celtics or vice versa, but we should be in the running. Now we’re out of the running unless a miracle happens. The bigger issue you mentioned is by signing Lavine, the Bulls have acknowleged they had trouble landing stars in the past and are willing to settle for paying big bucks to 2nd and 3 tier players. Rather than correcting the issue which is the culture and the image of this franchise we are choosing to not even cross that road. It is an incredibly irresponsible thing to do because in the NBA the teams with the most stars are the only that will go deep in playoffs. Basically, right now the Bulls are all-in on the idea that their scouting and drafting and development will continue to be better than other teams in the East. If they're right, then this will work. They showed promise in Lauri, they got a player outplaying his draft spot by a lot last year. They showed some promise in Dunn also. They need to have the same thing happen with these guys this year, including Lavine and the 2 draftees, and if that happens, then they're in good shape. If that doesn't happen, then they're set back for another several years and they have Lavine in a wasted contract. I'd call that a bet the GM should be fired for if he's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Can someone explain to me why two max contracts is not possible now? From what I can tell it still seems like a possibility. And quite frankly, if we could someone convince Butler & Irving to come here, we could easily move guys like Dunn or Hutchison to clear cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 48 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Basically, right now the Bulls are all-in on the idea that their scouting and drafting and development will continue to be better than other teams in the East. If they're right, then this will work. They showed promise in Lauri, they got a player outplaying his draft spot by a lot last year. They showed some promise in Dunn also. They need to have the same thing happen with these guys this year, including Lavine and the 2 draftees, and if that happens, then they're in good shape. If that doesn't happen, then they're set back for another several years and they have Lavine in a wasted contract. I'd call that a bet the GM should be fired for if he's wrong. I want to believe that they truly believe in Lavine and that the rest of the league is sleeping on him, but I highly doubt it. The fact that no one else other than Vlade Divac of the world offered him a contract says something. Also reports from earlier were internally they are mixed on him and didn’t want to pay what he was asking for until someone gave him an offer sheet. I don’t think you would do that if you think that player will be a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 32 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Can someone explain to me why two max contracts is not possible now? From what I can tell it still seems like a possibility. And quite frankly, if we could someone convince Butler & Irving to come here, we could easily move guys like Dunn or Hutchison to clear cap space. 2 max requires about $71m cap space. They could meet it if they renounce Valentine, Payne, Grant, and stretch provision Felicio. Now they’re at around $50m, which is well short. You can use the capulator below to run the numbers for different scenarios. http://www.shamsports.com/capulator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 4 hours ago, thxfrthmmrs said: I want to believe that they truly believe in Lavine and that the rest of the league is sleeping on him, but I highly doubt it. The fact that no one else other than Vlade Divac of the world offered him a contract says something. Also reports from earlier were internally they are mixed on him and didn’t want to pay what he was asking for until someone gave him an offer sheet. I don’t think you would do that if you think that player will be a star. If they were mixed on him they should have let him walk. If they wanted to let the market develop to see what he'd actually get offered, this was a totally fair move. Who else has the cap space to make a $15 million offer at this point? Sportrac says the Hawks, Kings, and Bulls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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