Official NHL COVID season thread

[Jack Parkman]

I'm tired of people who can't have a rational thought. I'm done with this thread. 

@Tony @soxfan49 

Your hate for Bowman clouds everything. Like it or not, there was logic behind every move going back to Panarin/Saad. This is the price the Hawks are paying for success. 

I'm fine either way really. It would be a good thing to get a fresh set of eyes on the roster. If you want to make the the argument that they need a new GM because Bowman's been here for a decade and they need a new perspective, that's understandable. It's the same reason Q was fired. However, I really don't think that there was much he could do to avoid this kind of drop off. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Harry Chappas]

I'm going to lob my bomb and walk out.

Bowman inherited three maybe four Hall of Famers that had not even entered their prime and now they are not even a playoff team.  

Stan is like Jerry Krause he stumbled into a gold mine. 

 

 

[Steve9347]

4 hours ago, Tony said:

We all know you aren’t done with this thread, because you can’t help yourself. 

In your last sentence, you said you don’t think there was much he could do to avoid this drop off. How about drafting and developing an NHL defenseman and actually having them be part of the lineup? For the all the roses you throw Stan’s way, blue line seems fairly important and he’s been a massive failure in that area. 

Again, they haven’t won a playoff series in 5 years. That hasn’t happened to teams like the Bruins, Penguins, Capitals, Sharks, etc. Don’t try and spin this is just what happens to good teams. This window should NOT have closed this early, they have done a tremendously poor job of managing resources and assets. 

They squandered Patrick Kane’s physical prime without a playoff series win. Unreal.

[soxfan49]

6 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm tired of people who can't have a rational thought. I'm done with this thread. 

@Tony @soxfan49 

Your hate for Bowman clouds everything. Like it or not, there was logic behind every move going back to Panarin/Saad. This is the price the Hawks are paying for success. 

I'm fine either way really. It would be a good thing to get a fresh set of eyes on the roster. If you want to make the the argument that they need a new GM because Bowman's been here for a decade and they need a new perspective, that's understandable. It's the same reason Q was fired. However, I really don't think that there was much he could do to avoid this kind of drop off. 

I'm still trying to figure out the logic behind dealing Teuvo, extending Seabrook and dealing Jokiharju as well as drafting all of the nobodies that he has, but none of that is important I suppose.

Price they pay for success? Seriously? Like Tony said, the Bruins and Pens, among others, haven't had an issue maintaining success.

@Tony now he's fine either way. Another mindset shift. Why am I not surprised?

Edited February 26, 2020 by soxfan49

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, soxfan49 said:

I'm still trying to figure out the logic behind dealing Teuvo, extending Seabrook and dealing Jokiharju as well as drafting all of the nobodies that he has, but none of that is important I suppose.

Price they pay for success? Seriously? Like Tony said, the Bruins and Pens, among others, haven't had an issue maintaining success.

@Tony now he's fine either way. Another mindset shift. Why am I not surprised?

Jokiharju is nothing special, and the Hawks didn't have many forwards in the system with top 6 potential. 

Teravainen continues to be incredibly overrated by Blackhawks fans and everyone seems to forget how much of a disappointment he was when he was here. 

Seabrook was indefensible. 

I've been on the fence with Bowman all season but I'm reluctant to fire him because he and Kelley are nails on draft day, especially in the first round. Regardless of what the Hawks are saying publicly this is a rebuild and has been for 2 seasons. That's why I'm not as angry and up in arms as most fans.  This is like screaming that you want to fire Rick Hahn after the 2018 season citing his 2012-16 performance as evidence. 

Of all of the players Bowman and Kelley have drafted in the first round this past  decade only one(Mark McNeill) didn't become an NHL contributor. All others were top 9 forwards, and the jury is still out on Jokiharju/Boqvist/Dach but early returns are very promising for the two that remain with the team. 

They're rebuilding, they gave Bowman the keys. Let him see it through. 

My only complaint is that they're not tearing it down even more. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[soxfan49]

21 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Jokiharju is nothing special, and the Hawks didn't have many forwards in the system with top 6 potential.

And neither is Nylander. For a guy who can't seem to find any good defensemen, trading a solid one who's extremely young for a bad player was a dumb decision. And wait, why didn't they have many forwards with top 6 potential? I thought he's "nails" on draft day. Spectacular take

Teravainen continues to be incredibly overrated by Blackhawks fans and everyone seems to forget how much of a disappointment he was when he was here. 

What? Yeah he struggled as a 20 year old in Chicago. As a *20 year old.* Another good take by you. He also ended his final year with the Hawks with 10 points in 18 games in the playoffs. He has gotten better every single season, including being almost a PPG guy last season. 

Seabrook was indefensible. 

"Logic behind every move." I guess not every one, huh?

I've been on the fence with Bowman all season but I'm reluctant to fire him because he and Kelley are nails on draft day, especially in the first round. Regardless of what the Hawks are saying publicly this is a rebuild and has been for 2 seasons. That's why I'm not as angry and up in arms as most fans.  This is like screaming that you want to fire Rick Hahn after the 2018 season citing his 2012-16 performance as evidence. 

How is this even remotely similar? Hahn was admitting failure on purpose. The Hawks are trying to win yet they suck. Bowman completely whiffed 2015's entire draft. 2012's sucked besides Teuvo. 2013's was a waste of time. 2014's was primarily disappointing. 

Of all of the players Bowman and Kelley have drafted in the first round this past  decade only one(Mark McNeill) didn't become an NHL contributor. All others were top 9 forwards, and the jury is still out on Jokiharju/Boqvist/Dach but early returns are very promising for the two that remain with the team. 

NHL contributor? Who cares? You don't draft guys in the first round to simply contribute. I guess Trubisky was a good pick too for the Bears since he's "contributing." Hartman sucks. Schmaltz is a no one. Who know who is a contributor? Jokiharju, who he traded for a bad player. Teuvo, who he traded for nothing. Funny how you say things to fit your narrative but bash it otherwise. You say Teuvo was a disappointment as a 20 year old but you're already saying Boqvist and Dach are promising despite uneven play from each of them.

They're rebuilding, they gave Bowman the keys. Let him see it through. 

They aren't rebuilding. Everything they're doing is somewhere in the middle.

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by soxfan49

[Jack Parkman]

20 minutes ago, Tony said:

1. I knew you couldn’t stay away. But good effort. You lasted a whole 7 hours. 

2. You realize the point of all of this “sports stuff” is to win, right? You keep hammering the point of the Hawks drafting abilities, but what has it gotten them the last 5 seasons, seasons that should have seen them make runs in the playoffs? You’ve had 3 HOF players in their primes on the roster and continued to fail to surround them with talent to win. 

3. The Hawks have never been “rebuilding” under Bowman but even if they were...isn’t that an even bigger knock against his performance as GM? You have to rebuild this thing with the core you have? For real? 

As always, you have all these ideas in your head that aren’t based on any actual evidence, and performance from this team over the last 5 seasons says you are absolutely in the wrong, as does pretty much everyone else in this thread. 

There's this thing called the salary cap. Learn what it is, and why it exists. 

Anyone arguing that the Hawks could have or should have kept Teravainen, Schmaltz and Panarin has no clue about the salary cap. Those guys were gone regardless. 

The Hawks sold out from 2014-16 to try to win as many cups as they could in that span. They're paying the piper for that right now. They traded a LOT of first and 2nd round picks during that time span. 

For those praising Pittsburgh and Boston, those teams took a significant step back before opening a second window. Back in 2014 the Hawks window was still open where Pittsburgh and Boston's were slammed shut. It took a lot of re-tooling and Boston missed the playoffs for a couple seasons before re-opening their window. Getting Pastrnak at pick #24 is something that can't be counted on to happen. It's a stroke of luck when stuff like that happens. Pittsburgh lost in the first or 2nd round 5 years in a row and had a massive roster restructuring before re-opening their window. 

 

The Hawks had one 8 year window where Boston had 2 4 year ones and Pittsburgh had a 3 year window, and then opened another one 5 years later. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Jack Parkman]

@soxfan49

Nick Schmaltz is more of a contributor than Jokiharju. He put up 52 points 2 seasons ago and is having a very similar season to Teravainen this year. If Schmaltz is nothing, then what is Teravainen? 

Anything that you get from a player drafted past the midpoint of the 2nd round is gravy anyway. 

All of the forwards that the Hawks drafted were at least top 9 players and that's all you can realistically expect from late 1st round picks. You hope they're middle 6ers and anything more is gravy. 

You can't trade players like Toews and Kane anymore in the NHL. They're essentially untradeable. You'd never get fair value for a player of that caliber. If McDavid asked for a trade the Oilers would be fucked because nobody would give up fair value for even the best player on the planet. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[soxfan49]

Schmaltz last year- 0.63 points per game... Teuvo last year- 0.93 points per game

Schamltz this year- 0.64 points per game... Teuvo this year- 0.92 points per game

Not even close, dude.

There's a difference between "well you can't expect mid to late 1st rounders to be great" and "I hesitate to want Bowman fired because he's 'nails' in the draft." How do you not see that? 

Getting in the playoffs is the goal. IIRC Pittsburgh's made the playoffs 14 years in a row. They won the Stanley Cup in 2016, dude. So much for slammed shut from 2014-2016, huh?

The problem is you're giving Bowman entirely too much credit for that window. Did he REALLY have that big of an impact? The answer is no, and like Tony said, that window should still be open, not shut for 5 years consecutively.

Next.

Edited February 26, 2020 by soxfan49

[Jack Parkman]

15 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Schmaltz last year- 0.63 points per game... Teuvo last year- 0.93 points per game

Schamltz this year- 0.64 points per game... Teuvo this year- 0.92 points per game

Not even close, dude.

There's a difference between "well you can't expect mid to late 1st rounders to be great" and "I hesitate to want Bowman fired because he's 'nails' in the draft." How do you not see that? 

Getting in the playoffs is the goal. IIRC Pittsburgh's made the playoffs 14 years in a row. They won the Stanley Cup in 2016, dude. So much for slammed shut from 2014-2016, huh?

The problem is you're giving Bowman entirely too much credit for that window. Did he REALLY have that big of an impact? The answer is no, and like Tony said, that window should still be open, not shut for 5 years consecutively.

Next.

No I was talking about Boston there.

Pittsburgh lost in the first round in 2011, 12 and 13. You don't remember the epic meltdown that the Penguins had vs the Flyers? Where they got absloutely spanked in multiple games and gooned it up? Why doesn't anyone lament Crosby and Malkin's physical primes being wasted? (They were btw) 

The Penguins had 2 separate windows, so did the Bruins. 

BTW I give Bowman 100% of the credit for that window for signing Hossa instead of retaining Havlat. The Hawks win zero Stanley Cups without Marian Hossa. That was a Bowman move. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[soxfan49]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

No I was talking about Boston there.

Pittsburgh lost in the first round in 2011, 12 and 13. You don't remember the epic meltdown that the Penguins had vs the Flyers? Where they got absloutely spanked in multiple games and gooned it up? Why doesn't anyone lament Crosby and Malkin's physical primes being wasted? (They were btw) 

The Penguins had 2 separate windows, so did the Bruins. 

BTW I give Bowman 100% of the credit for that window for signing Hossa instead of retaining Havlat. The Hawks win zero Stanley Cups without Marian Hossa. That was a Bowman move. 

Right because someone said everyone else involved wanted Havlat. Yeah I bet only the intelligent Stan Bowman thought Hossa was a Hall of Famer and everyone else thought otherwise

[Jack Parkman]

8 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Right because someone said everyone else involved wanted Havlat. Yeah I bet only the intelligent Stan Bowman thought Hossa was a Hall of Famer and everyone else thought otherwise

No, there were reports that part of the reason that Tallon got fired was that. The Hawks had a freaking 9 year window and won three championships over that span, with two other conference final appearances while having to retool the depth pieces in the process. What more do you want? 

Another critical factor in Boston and Pittsburgh's continued success is timing of contract expiration. Crosby got to sign a 10 year deal under the CBA that still allowed such contracts. Malkin/Bergeron/Krejci signed shortly after the last lockout when the cap was significantly reduced from where it was when 19/88 signed their deals. Anyone that doesn't take that into account is a fool and just trying to fit their narrative. 

I'm not arguing that Bowman has been perfect(nowhere close actually) I'm not arguing that he should or shouldn't be retained. I have a problem with everyone saying that he's an awful GM because he's not and he'd have 5-10 job offers within days of being dismissed. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Jack Parkman]

22 minutes ago, Tony said:

Except there is no actual evidence of this, and Dale Tallon was the GM when Hossa was signed. 

For 15 days? It was already known between the draft and July 1st that Tallon was out. There is no way in hell that he was making decisions. None whatsoever. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[soxfan49]

O-VER-RA-TED

[SoxAce]

Man that franchise just can't catch a break. They've had a bunch of talent signed to sweet heart deals (partially thanks to the no state tax) and still can't buy a cup. Makes me appreciate the Hawks getting 3 cups in the Toews and Kane era (although people ripping Bowman for wasting those two the past 4-5 years is warranted too).

[Steve9347]

I personally don't give a shit how impossible  it was, good franchises figure out a way to keep a guy like Panarin. The motherfucker has 90 points in 64 games ffs. We gave him away for nothing.

[SoxAce]

Kid is straight filth.

[soxfan49]

The Hawks just lost to the fucking Red Wings.

[SoxAce]

9 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

The Hawks just lost to the fucking Red Wings.

It'll be worth it if they can have some lotto luck and get Lafreniere. That kid is the real deal. 

Still though I get nauseous losing to that franchise. Only thing worse is to lose to the Blues on Sunday (I'm all for beating our rivals). 

[soxfan49]

8 hours ago, SoxAce said:

It'll be worth it if they can have some lotto luck and get Lafreniere. That kid is the real deal. 

Still though I get nauseous losing to that franchise. Only thing worse is to lose to the Blues on Sunday (I'm all for beating our rivals). 

Especially when they're one of the worst teams of the last decade

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, soxfan49 said:

Especially when they're one of the worst teams of the last decade

They're actually the worst team in the last 25 years. 

They're on pace for the fewest points since the 1995-96 Ottawa Senators. 

If Detroit wins 2 of their last 13 they'll tie them. 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[soxfan49]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

They're actually the worst team in the last 25 years. 

They're on pace for the fewest points since the 1995-96 Ottawa Senators. 

If Detroit wins 2 of their last 13 they'll tie them. 

Yeah, absolutely pathetic. The organization needs some changes

[Balta1701]

 

[StrangeSox]

RIP sports

 

 

[SoxAce]

NHL player just tested positive.