How eventful will be this years deadline?

[steveno89]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Typically it wouldn't be too early, but with the injury history and the questions about work ethic, that is what gets me wondering.

The Sox and Rodon are better served waiting for him to prove he is healthy before looking to spend money on him. I'm all for trying to save money, but I genuinely do not know how he is going to hold up long term. 

[GreenSox]

34 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Expect to get dealt:

Soria and Avilan

Perhaps, but would need to be good offer:

Abreu, Yolmer and Jones

 

I can't see  Jones  in the "need to be a good offer" category.  That said I can't say I expect him to be dealt as he isn't having a good year.

Abreu's understandably there.  Are they even entertaining trading Yolmer? It's not like guys are lining up to play 3rd in this organization.

Edited June 11, 2018 by GreenSox

[southsider2k5]

Nate Jones is an odd situation.  Don't forget he has the odd clause in his contract where if he had elbow surgery, his 2019 option was actually for league minimum, plus a couple of more options.

That could actually add to his worth on the open market.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Nate Jones is an odd situation.  Don't forget he has the odd clause in his contract where if he had elbow surgery, his 2019 option was actually for league minimum, plus a couple of more options.

That could actually add to his worth on the open market.

This. The Sox control Nate through 2021 for AAV of $2.75M.  They aren't trading him away for nothing.  

[BlackSox13]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think a lot of people underestimate how important it is for players to not only have good coaching from the staff, but to have people off of the staff that also show leadership.  The best organizations are self-taught and self-disciplined.  Jose Abreu leading the way for the young players is going to have a much larger impact than anything the coaching staff has to say.  Leading by example has a huge impact.

Oh, and it also is really nice that Jose Abreu is a legitimate middle of the order bat who is extremely consistent from year to year.

Absolutely! Imagine how much more unbearable the Sox have been to watch without his production this season. Uhg!

This is a perfect example of what we're talking about in Abreu's leadership and what it means to the team. 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-white-sox-rangers-spt-0818-20170817-story.html

"

Lopez told them both were fine, but as the pair made their way back to the dugout, first baseman Jose Abreu stepped in to make sure there wasn't anything bothering Lopez, a player Abreu knows is expected to be a big part of the rebuilding team's future."

"First and foremost, we have to highlight he wanted to pitch through the pain," Abreu said afterward through an interpreter. "But when Ricky left, I asked him, 'Hey, are you sure you're feeling good?' Because I think with that kind of talent, you can't mess around. You have to take care of these kids, especially if you are thinking of the future. He told me his right side was sore, and then at that moment, I decided to call Ricky back to let him know."

[Boopa1219]

5 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

Yes Strasburg did sign an extension, but it wasn't team-friendly. Guy still got paid. After this year, he is still owed $138m over 5 years.

Yeah that's true but he when he signed his deal he was an established star player in the league. Rodon isn't that so you could get something team friendly 

[Bob Sacamano]

Not as eventful(/fun?) as last season. That's for sure.

Edited June 11, 2018 by soxfan2014

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Joshua Strong said:

Yeah that's true but he when he signed his deal he was an established star player in the league. Rodon isn't that so you could get something team friendly 

Rodon doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that isn't going to bet on himself.  I see almost no scenario that he agrees to an extension 3.5 years away from free agency unless the Sox really pay up.  

[Jake]

Why are we talking about trading Rodon? We have him for three more seasons after this one. It will be hard to win again if he's not leading our rotation when we make our run. The only scenario where trading him makes sense might be if he's pitching badly mid-way into next season and the Sox start to think he's on the verge of flaming out entirely.

[Lip Man 1]

57 minutes ago, Jake said:

Why are we talking about trading Rodon? We have him for three more seasons after this one. It will be hard to win again if he's not leading our rotation when we make our run. The only scenario where trading him makes sense might be if he's pitching badly mid-way into next season and the Sox start to think he's on the verge of flaming out entirely.

Two reasons:

1. Because of his agent. He's hitting the open market eventually and will not be giving the Sox a "discount" especially if he is pitching well. You trade him when he still has a few years on his contract to help maximize the return.

2. Because if the bulk of the young talent from a starting standpoint can actually pitch (Kopech, Hansen, Dunning, Lopez, Gialito, Crease off the top of my head) Rodon while valuable if the Sox keep him, won't be a team breaker if they trade him. Starting pitching could be a strength. 

[TheFutureIsNear]

19 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Two reasons:

1. Because of his agent. He's hitting the open market eventually and will not be giving the Sox a "discount" especially if he is pitching well. You trade him when he still has a few years on his contract to help maximize the return.

2. Because if the bulk of the young talent from a starting standpoint can actually pitch (Kopech, Hansen, Dunning, Lopez, Gialito, Crease off the top of my head) Rodon while valuable if the Sox keep him, won't be a team breaker if they trade him. Starting pitching could be a strength. 

1. Nobody owes anybody a “discount”. Don’t understand why you’d be critical of any person trying to maximize their value. There isn’t even a “for the good of the team salary cap” excuse in baseball.

2. That’s called counting your chickens before they hatch. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by TheFutureIsNear

[greg775]

37 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Two reasons:

1. Because of his agent. He's hitting the open market eventually and will not be giving the Sox a "discount" especially if he is pitching well. You trade him when he still has a few years on his contract to help maximize the return.

2. Because if the bulk of the young talent from a starting standpoint can actually pitch (Kopech, Hansen, Dunning, Lopez, Gialito, Crease off the top of my head) Rodon while valuable if the Sox keep him, won't be a team breaker if they trade him. Starting pitching could be a strength. 

Geez. According to what you wrote, we never should draft a guy with that agent. If there's zero hope of keeping a guy, even one as average as Rodon, WTF? Just stay away from all Boras guys in the future.

[LittleHurt05]

3 hours ago, greg775 said:

Geez. According to what you wrote, we never should draft a guy with that agent. If there's zero hope of keeping a guy, even one as average as Rodon, WTF? Just stay away from all Boras guys in the future.

You have control over his salary for the first 6 years of his major league career.  I know you prefer players in their 30s, but that's ideal, no matter who the agent.

[Lip Man 1]

5 hours ago, greg775 said:

Geez. According to what you wrote, we never should draft a guy with that agent. If there's zero hope of keeping a guy, even one as average as Rodon, WTF? Just stay away from all Boras guys in the future.

Historically the Sox haven't had a lot of Boras clients. His relationship with the Sox hasn't been the best. For years he and Williams weren't even on speaking terms after the Alex Rodriguez situation. JR also had a very strong "dislike" towards him for many years as well.

It's a simple fact, this is the way Boras operates. I'm not criticizing him for it, his job is to get his client the most money. That means when they have a chance to hit the open market, they go, period. 

Looking at it from the Sox standpoint Greg they don't really have much choice.

Rodon is going to hit the free agent market at some point. If he's pitching well, he'll be priced way out of the Sox market (unless of course new ownership is in place, which could be a possibility) if he isn't pitching well or continues to be injured why would the Sox want him given the possible strength of their young pitchers anyway?

What makes the most sense in my opinion given those factual circumstances, is that the Sox hope he pitches well and stays healthy the next year or year and a half, then they deal him for a very good package since he'll still have a year and a half or two years to go before Boras takes him to the free agent market.

If you wait to long with him you run the risk of not getting a lot back if he only has a year or a half season to go before becoming a free agent.

That's the reality of things Greg given the agent, his documented history and the history of the Sox as a franchise that as of this writing,has never given out a nine figure deal to a player...and believe me, if Rodon pitches very well the next few years, that's exactly what Boras is going to be asking for.

The only thing that could change that situation is new ownership in which case all bets are off, a new owner may not even blink twice at authorizing a 100 million dollar deal. As Walter Cronkite used to say, "and that's the way it is."

Not the ideal situation but one that is the most probable in my opinion.

 

[Lip Man 1]

5 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

1. Nobody owes anybody a “discount”. Don’t understand why you’d be critical of any person trying to maximize their value. There isn’t even a “for the good of the team salary cap” excuse in baseball. 

I'm not critical of it in the least. The bottom line though is that unless current ownership isn't no longer running the franchise when Rodon becomes a free agent the Sox have very little chance of retaining his services ESPECIALLY if he has pitched well the few years before that. They simply have not to this point, EVER given out those type of deals.

Maybe that changes in the near future, we'll see. If so they have a shot to bring in some of the top talent that will be available this off season. Again we'll have to wait and see.

[BlackSox13]

With Rodon's recent injury history he isn't going anywhere this year. I get the points of Boras being his agent and that the Sox have promising talent but it isn't happening this year, period.

If the idea is to eventually trade Rodon then it would be best to maximize his value first. IMHO the best course of action would be to keep Rodon through the '19 season with the hope that he stays healthy and returns to form. By then the Sox will have a better idea of who's ready to replace him ( Dunning, Hansen, Cease) and could put Rodon on the trade market over the 2019/'20 winter with two years of control left. If all goes well he would be worth much more at that time than he would be this July.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I'm not critical of it in the least. The bottom line though is that unless current ownership isn't no longer running the franchise when Rodon becomes a free agent the Sox have very little chance of retaining his services ESPECIALLY if he has pitched well the few years before that. They simply have not to this point, EVER given out those type of deals.

Maybe that changes in the near future, we'll see. If so they have a shot to bring in some of the top talent that will be available this off season. Again we'll have to wait and see.

Unless you count "internal" extensions for Buehrle, Contreras, Ordonez, Konerko, Danks, etc.

I guess we can certainly say we haven't given out boatloads of $100+ million extensions...but we've been very smart about guys like Eaton, Sale, Q and now Tim Anderson (creating surplus value.)

We potentially were in similar situations with Crede and Jenks but injuries derailed their careers before extensions could be signed (luckily, for the Sox.)

Edited June 12, 2018 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

15 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Two reasons:

1. Because of his agent. He's hitting the open market eventually and will not be giving the Sox a "discount" especially if he is pitching well. You trade him when he still has a few years on his contract to help maximize the return.

2. Because if the bulk of the young talent from a starting standpoint can actually pitch (Kopech, Hansen, Dunning, Lopez, Gialito, Crease off the top of my head) Rodon while valuable if the Sox keep him, won't be a team breaker if they trade him. Starting pitching could be a strength. 

The Sox control Rodon through 2021.  So that would be 2 years of prime contention.  Good teams will lose players in free agency; you just have to replace them, usually with younger players. Some churn is healthy, as it brings in new people, new faces, new ideas (the org. as a whole could use some churn).
And they can always trade him in the future; trade him next year, and you'll get a lot more as his value is set.  Sure he could pitch poorly between now and then, but the Sox wouldn't get much for him now anyway.

The Sox could also use a pitcher who "knows the ropes." It's refreshing to have one who isn't on the downside of his career, unlike Shields et al.

Edited June 12, 2018 by GreenSox

[steveno89]

8 hours ago, BlackSox13 said:

With Rodon's recent injury history he isn't going anywhere this year. I get the points of Boras being his agent and that the Sox have promising talent but it isn't happening this year, period.

If the idea is to eventually trade Rodon then it would be best to maximize his value first. IMHO the best course of action would be to keep Rodon through the '19 season with the hope that he stays healthy and returns to form. By then the Sox will have a better idea of who's ready to replace him ( Dunning, Hansen, Cease) and could put Rodon on the trade market over the 2019/'20 winter with two years of control left. If all goes well he would be worth much more at that time than he would be this July.

I'm surprised how many seem to think we won't be able to "afford" Rodon down the line. Right now he is 3.5 seasons away from free agency and has a long way to proving 1) he is healthy 2) he is a quality starter. Pure stuff alone will not be able to overcome injury concerns when it comes to a big contract. 

If Rodon finishes this season and next fully healthy and effective, we could start considering an extension two full seasons away from free agency. If he keeps getting hurt there will not be a big free agent payday.

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

I'm surprised how many seem to think we won't be able to "afford" Rodon down the line. Right now he is 3.5 seasons away from free agency and has a long way to proving 1) he is healthy 2) he is a quality starter. Pure stuff alone will not be able to overcome injury concerns when it comes to a big contract. 

If Rodon finishes this season and next fully healthy and effective, we could start considering an extension two full seasons away from free agency. If he keeps getting hurt there will not be a big free agent payday.

When 1) is true, so is 2) 

[FloydBannister1983]

17 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

1. Nobody owes anybody a “discount”. Don’t understand why you’d be critical of any person trying to maximize their value. There isn’t even a “for the good of the team salary cap” excuse in baseball.

Where was his criticism?  Here's what he wrote:  "1. Because of his agent. He's hitting the open market eventually and will not be giving the Sox a "discount" especially if he is pitching well. You trade him when he still has a few years on his contract to help maximize the return. "  That's reality.  That's not a criticism. 

I myself wonder when we will see the guy who is going to demand a nine figure deal.  He's been a solid MOR starter but nothing that would command nine figures.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Juschill

[TheFutureIsNear]

11 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I'm not critical of it in the least. The bottom line though is that unless current ownership isn't no longer running the franchise when Rodon becomes a free agent the Sox have very little chance of retaining his services ESPECIALLY if he has pitched well the few years before that. They simply have not to this point, EVER given out those type of deals.

Maybe that changes in the near future, we'll see. If so they have a shot to bring in some of the top talent that will be available this off season. Again we'll have to wait and see.

Ok got ya. I understand your point, but I think/hope the mindset of the team has to change. I can understand not getting into bidding wars with high price free agents, but I think it’s going to be hard to establish a long term winning franchise without retaining our own players. To me it just seems unrealistic to expect to continuously develop and replace high level players. Obviously Rondon hasn’t established himself on a consistent high level yet, but in this hypothetical situation of him getting a huge contract he would be and trying to replace him with a young/unproven arm to save $ would be frustrating to me as a fan.

[kwolf68]

Trade Rodon? HELL NO. Not unless someone vastly overpays for him. Right now he is the most talented all around pitcher ANYWHERE in our organization. He has better stuff than everyone in this organization and unlike other phenoms like Kopech, Rodon can actually hit the catchers mitt. Did anyone see him in his first game back pumping the 1 at 96 and 97 mixed in with a filthy change up? Let us not forget his OUT pitch (that slider) he really didn't have in that game. Rodon should be considered the current and future #1 for this staff, period.... 

Edited June 12, 2018 by kwolf68

[Superstar Lamar]

I think the most excited people for the Sox at the trade deadline will be Reinsdorf and his investors as I think it will bring salary relief.  I would be happy if they devoted the savings for use in free agency this off season

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, kwolf68 said:

Trade Rodon? HELL NO. Not unless someone vastly overpays for him. Right now he is the most talented all around pitcher ANYWHERE in our organization. He has better stuff than everyone in this organization and unlike other phenoms like Kopech, Rodon can actually hit the catchers mitt. Did anyone see him in his first game back pumping the 1 at 96 and 97 mixed in with a filthy change up? Let us not forget his OUT pitch (that slider) he really didn't have in that game. Rodon should be considered the current and future #1 for this staff, period.... 

Normally i'd agree, but his free agency is looming, and they'll lose him when they can't afford to(beginning of contention window) and it should be better to maximize value via trade in 2019, after he proves his performance and health.