Kopech "getting closer"

[southsider2k5]

 

[kwolf68]

Walking well over 5 per 9 with an ERA pushing 5.00. If he's close I would hate to see someone far. Kopech is on fast track to the bullpen with that command. The Sale trade NEEDS to happen for us and so far early returns cast doubt on how much the Sox will get out of this. NO DOUBT Moncada and Kopech have supreme talent, but also have some serious flaws in their games. 

[southsider2k5]

Hopefully people watching Lucas Giolito now realize that Kopech with his lack of control is going to go through the same types of growing pains when he gets here,

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

I would like "not too distant future" to mean 2019.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Swingandalongonetoleft

[kwolf68]

1 minute ago, Swingandalongonetoleft said:

I would like "not too distant future" to mean 2019.

 

Right now that's what it should be. Kopech has not earned the right to be called up to Chicago. His stuff is obviously electric, but there is only so much upside in a guy with such questionable command. He HAS to get that under control, which CAN happen. Blake Snell in tampa bay has become one of the games brightest young pitchers and you can point directly to the 2nd half of last year where he seemed to just start hitting the strike zone. That simple...Snell went from talented, enigma with electric stuff who struggled with control to a player who now commands his arsenal and can be damn near unhittable. Kopech may end up similar, at least I hope.  

[chitownsportsfan]

19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Hopefully people watching Lucas Giolito now realize that Kopech with his lack of control is going to go through the same types of growing pains when he gets here,

I have no doubt he'll have growing pains but Giolito is working with a squirt gun, Kopech has a master blaster.  Kopech is also a different beast mentally.  Kopech, at least form his public persona, appears to have some Pedro in him.  Lopez gives me the same vibe.  These guys are cocky and step on the mound with ownership.

To use the parlance of our times Gio is the virgin and Kopech and Lopez are the swinging dick chads.  Speaking of that, does Gio rock a chain?  Someone should buy him a nice cuban links, might help his mound presence.

Edited June 12, 2018 by chitownsportsfan

[SoxAce]

21 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Hopefully people watching Lucas Giolito now realize that Kopech with his lack of control is going to go through the same types of growing pains when he gets here,

Eh.. Giolito is probably not a good comparison considering Kopech hasn't lost 5+ mph on his fastball and can repeat his delivery. I can buy Fulmer though (although he was rushed unlike Kopech). 

[Superstar Lamar]

28 minutes ago, Swingandalongonetoleft said:

I would like "not too distant future" to mean 2019.

and really, is there any reason for this not to be true?

There is plausible deniability right now for waiting to bring him up in May 2019.  Take advantage of it.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Just now, kwolf68 said:

Walking well over 5 per 9 with an ERA pushing 5.00. If he's close I would hate to see someone far. Kopech is on fast track to the bullpen with that command. The Sale trade NEEDS to happen for us and so far early returns cast doubt on how much the Sox will get out of this. NO DOUBT Moncada and Kopech have supreme talent, but also have some serious flaws in their games. 

We don't know what he's been working on. He was told to improve his change-up before he got the call up. So it's possible he's been throwing far more change-ups than he normally would, which results in hitters guessing correctly on, or it being the hardest pitch for him to locate, I'm not really sure. 

Not saying that IS the reason, but I think his starts in the majors could be a better reflection of his command than his starts in AAA right now.

[Butter Parque]

26 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

We don't know what he's been working on. He was told to improve his change-up before he got the call up. So it's possible he's been throwing far more change-ups than he normally would, which results in hitters guessing correctly on, or it being the hardest pitch for him to locate, I'm not really sure. 

Not saying that IS the reason, but I think his starts in the majors could be a better reflection of his command than his starts in AAA right now.

This

i get people want results in line with what he did last year, but I just don’t think it’s been as bad as people Markit out to be.

The guy has fewer than 3 walks in 7 out of his 12 starts.

He’s had a WHIP under 1.3 in 9 out of his 12 starts.

He’s had a k/9 at 9 or higher in 11 out of 12 starts. 

He’s had 2 starts that accounted for 48% of his earned runs this season. 

Hes not a finished a product, he’s certainly has had a few clunkers this season, but make no mistake, Kopech has been REALLY GOOD at AAA this year. 

We all know that a 13% BB walk rate won’t get it done, but even with it, he’s pitching to a 3.60 FIP. Having him stay down or come up is not going to make or break him. He just turned 22 years old and he is good enough and has been good enough to learn and iron out his weaknesses while facing ML hitters. I think he should be up by August if I had a say. 

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Swingandalongonetoleft said:

I would like "not too distant future" to mean 2019.

This.  I've said it before and I will say it again.  I'll be disappointed if we see either Kopech or Eloy this season.  Get them up here as soon as we get the extra year on control in 2019.  Let them take their lumps in 2019 and look to 2020 as the year to begin competing. 

[ptatc]

54 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

This.  I've said it before and I will say it again.  I'll be disappointed if we see either Kopech or Eloy this season.  Get them up here as soon as we get the extra year on control in 2019.  Let them take their lumps in 2019 and look to 2020 as the year to begin competing. 

I think you'll be disappointed then. I think both will be here by August.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I think you'll be disappointed then. I think both will be here by August.

We'll see.  I wouldn't be shocked, but don't really see the point. 

[Chicago White Sox]

6 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Hopefully people watching Lucas Giolito now realize that Kopech with his lack of control is going to go through the same types of growing pains when he gets here,

Kopech throws 100 MPH, Giolito throws like 92.  Lopez’s growing pains would be a better comparison.

[Sarava]

18 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

We'll see.  I wouldn't be shocked, but don't really see the point. 

Development? Letting them get their feet wet this season would seem invaluable in their journey to becoming major league players.

[ChiSox59]

Just now, Sarava said:

Development? Letting them get their feet wet this season would seem invaluable in their journey to becoming major league players.

Invaluable?  I don't think Kopech making 6 MLB starts and Eloy playing 40 games in the bigs in 2018 is going to make any difference whatsoever in what they become as players.  They'll have all of 2019 in to develop in the big leagues before the Sox get serious about competing in 2020 and beyond.  if choice is owning their rights for another season when the Sox project to be good as opposed to letting their get their feet wet in a lost season in 2018 - to me, the answer is obvious.  

[Jake]

There is definitely developmental value to playing in MLB. The sooner you do that, the sooner they are ready. You don't want to play so many games with service time that you end up delaying your window for contention.

[ptatc]

14 minutes ago, Jake said:

There is definitely developmental value to playing in MLB. The sooner you do that, the sooner they are ready. You don't want to play so many games with service time that you end up delaying your window for contention.

You can take the baton for awhile. I've been saying this for weeks but I'm  in the minority compared to the service time group.

[Dick Allen]

22 minutes ago, Jake said:

There is definitely developmental value to playing in MLB. The sooner you do that, the sooner they are ready. You don't want to play so many games with service time that you end up delaying your window for contention.

If Kopech was dominating AAA, I would probably agree with you, although there are many cases where that simply was not true. It's hard to come up with a player who spent too much time in the minor leagues that it hurt him. It's probably happened, but would be hard to quantify. 

 

Kris Bryant, didn't hurt him. George Springer, Carlos Correa, didn't hurt. Gleyber Torres, missing a year didn't seem to set him back. If these guys are stars, an extra couple months in AAA isn't going to harm them.  In other sports, I'm sure Lebron James could have played in the NBA when he was a sophomore in HS. He still was pretty good his rookie year, after spending a couple more seasons vs. high school kids. If Kopech is so fragile keeping him in Charlotte the rest of this season and a couple weeks next season is going to really hurt him,  there's a pretty good chance something else will come along much worse and derail him anyway. 

[ptatc]

14 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If Kopech was dominating AAA, I would probably agree with you, although there are many cases where that simply was not true. It's hard to come up with a player who spent too much time in the minor leagues that it hurt him. It's probably happened, but would be hard to quantify. 

 

Kris Bryant, didn't hurt him. George Springer, Carlos Correa, didn't hurt. Gleyber Torres, missing a year didn't seem to set him back. If these guys are stars, an extra couple months in AAA isn't going to harm them.  In other sports, I'm sure Lebron James could have played in the NBA when he was a sophomore in HS. He still was pretty good his rookie year, after spending a couple more seasons vs. high school kids. If Kopech is so fragile keeping him in Charlotte the rest of this season and a couple weeks next season is going to really hurt him,  there's a pretty good chance something else will come along much worse and derail him anyway. 

You keep looking at it backwards. The sox shouldnt be thinking, what wont hurt their development. They should be looking at what is best for his develpment. 

I know we wont agree and maybe its the educator in me but I would focus on whats best for him not what wont hurt him.

For examples look at mike trout. The angels brought him at the end of one year and he played a partial season the next brfore a full sea on in the third year. Maybe thats what they should do. 

They should bring him up whe they feel he is ready. We dont see him in the club house and dugout everyday. They do. They have said they want him to work on the changeup. He is probably throwing them more and in situations where he normally wouldnt to work on it. Are his stats skewed because of it?

Edited June 13, 2018 by ptatc

[ChiSox59]

4 minutes ago, ptatc said:

You keep looking at it backwards. The sox shouldnt be thinking, what wont hurt their development. They should be looking at what is best for his develpment. 

I know we wont agree and maybe its the educator in me but I would focus on whats best for him not what wont hurt him.

What is best for him is improving on his 4.70 ERA, 1.35 WHIP and 5.16 BB/9 innings playing against AAA players.  Until he does that, he's given the Sox every excuse they need to keep him in AAA. 

[ptatc]

6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

What is best for him is improving on his 4.70 ERA, 1.35 WHIP and 5.16 BB/9 innings playing against AAA players.  Until he does that, he's given the Sox every excuse they need to keep him in AAA. 

Numbers arent the only thing that determines if he is ready. However, that could be a reason. Im not saying he needs to come up now. But the determining factor should be if they think he is ready not that they need to wait for next year for service time or that it wont hurt him to stay down.

Edited June 13, 2018 by ptatc

[Dick Allen]

11 minutes ago, ptatc said:

You keep looking at it backwards. The sox shouldnt be thinking, what wont hurt their development. They should be looking at what is best for his develpment. 

I know we wont agree and maybe its the educator in me but I would focus on whats best for him not what wont hurt him.

For examples look at mike trout. The angels brought him at the end of one year and he played a partial season the next brfore a full sea on in the third year. Maybe thats what they should do. 

They should bring him up whe they feel he is ready. We dont see him in the club house and dugout everyday. They do. They have said they want him to work on the changeup. He is probably throwing them more and in situations where he normally wouldnt to work on it. Are his stats skewed because of it?

I don't see the consistency of a guy who is ready for the major leagues. Let him work on it. Next year around tax day call him up for good. He will have all of 2019 to learn. If that isn't enough, he probably isn't a stud. 

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I don't see the consistency of a guy who is ready for the major leagues. Let him work on it. Next year around tax day call him up for good. He will have all of 2019 to learn. If that isn't enough, he probably isn't a stud. 

Thats fair that you dont see the consistency. However, I would trust the people that work with him everyday more. Again your premise tht the service time is more important then the development is what I disagree with.

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Thats fair that you dont see the consistency. However, I would trust the people that work with him everyday more. Again your premise tht the service time is more important then the development is what I disagree with.

I think when it gets to be a month or two, at this stage of the rebuild, you should keep an eye on service time, it's silly not to. There are situations you can't say no, but IMO, we aren't close. Now it is all about hurting his feelings or pissing off a fanbase that is sick of losing almost every night. I think a few wins here and there will quiet the calls for Kopech and Jimenez.