Kopech "getting closer"

[Chicago White Sox]

I will add that these struggles give Jordan Stephens a good opportunity to grab a rotation in the near future.

[Two-Gun Pete]

6 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

I'll continue to see these athletes as humans with emotions. I'm sorry you feel differently. 

Now, that's silly.

I'm reading all sorts of ridiculous excuses to rush a guy up, when he has a snowball's chance in hell right now. "Frustration" means exactly jack and shit when you're walking the yard, and forcing more workload on less-talented team mates in the bullpen. If he were to be rushed up now, WE'D all be frustrated, his team mates would be struggling [particularly the flimsy bullpen], and HE'D have the new excuse of having "lost confidence." 

Here's a novel concept that many are reluctant to embrace: Let him EARN HIS SPOT by right of superior performance, instead of rushing him up Carson Fulmer-style. [And squandering an option year, and wasting his pre-arb controllable years while he figures it out, Carson Fulmer-style.]

Setting expectations for young men has never hurt anyone, and I'm still dubious about "frustration" harming his prospective MLB career, or hurting him in any way. Of course he's human, but I'm pretty sure he puts on his "big boy pants," irrespective of his emotions.

4 hours ago, ptatc said:

However, As I said previously if people want to wait for his BB rate to go below say 4.5 BB/9, they may never see him in the MLB. He just isn't that type of pitcher.

He's plenty young enough, and I'm willing to wait to try to find out if it were in any way possible to do. If a reduction in walk rate to 4-ish "cost him" a marginal declination in K/9 down to, say ~10ish, it would be worth it, IMHO. At the same time, his LD% suggests he'd be hit around were he to come up as well. I'd prefer that number to be south of 20%, as BABIP on line drives is high.

 

As an aside, there's something about the younger SPs in the org that I've wondered about. Consider the BB/9 for the following:

 

Rodon: 4.02 in 2017

Lopez: 3.96 this year

Fulmer: 6.68 in Chicago this year

Kopech: 6.06 in Charlotte this year

 

I wonder if this org would be better-served to focus on FB command/control for their higher-level SP prospects BEFORE having them master a change. [I don't know this to be the case or not, but the cavalcade of walks is irritating, and leads me to speculate about this.] Heck, even Lopez and Rodon, who are the best of the bunch, aren't exactly Mark Buehrle in terms of limiting the free pass.

 

Happily, Hansen's BB/9 was < 4.0 in all stops last year, so I'll concede that I may be finding trends where perhaps there aren't any. I just hate walks.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Two-Gun Pete

[Dick Allen]

19 hours ago, ptatc said:

He can throw enough strikes with better stuff to do better than the other two. He is still learning how to pitch, no doubt. However, his K:bb ratio will still put him in far better position. Giolito has a negative ratio.

If there is one thing this stretch has shown, Kopech isn’t ready for the major leagues. It might be good for him long term.

[ptatc]

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If there is one thing this stretch has shown, Kopech isn’t ready for the major leagues. It might be good for him long term.

Its definitely good for him long term. Baseball is a game of dealing with and learning from failing. They need to learn to make adjustments. Its best this happens in the minors first out of the spotlight of the MLB. I think this was the issue with Beckham. He really didnt need to adjust until the MLB and he couldnt do it.

I still dont necessarily think this means he isnt ready but the next few starts will be a good learning experience on how to adjust and come back from an awful start.

[Dominikk85]

On 6/15/2018 at 1:41 PM, [email protected] said:

So Michael Kopech is the right handed version of Randy Johnson? Very interesting... I guess we can already say that Hahn won the Sale trade then. 

 

 

I was just saying that with elite swing and miss stuff command doesn't need to be perfect. Johnson of course is a 99.99th percentile outcome, nobody is as good as him.

However of course 5+ bb/9 is not going to cut it for kopech, he either would get shellacked or alternatively if he didn't give in be maybe could make it through 4 and then he has to be pulled with 100 pitches. His command doesn't need to be perfect but 5+ walks clearly won't work and he needs more time unless it is a one inning reliever role.

[Steve9347]

Someone needs to update the thread title to: Kopech no longer "getting closer".

My take is this is simple psychology. The guy is ready for the big leagues and is not engaged in the minor leagues anymore. We're seeing regression because he wasn't called up when he was ready. You bring him up and he'll shape right up and, obviously, be our best starter the second he's called up.

I understand rebuilding, but when prospects show they're ready and are past the Super 2, it is detrimental to their development to leave them in the minors for no reason.

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, Steve9347 said:

Someone needs to update the thread title to: Kopech no longer "getting closer".

My take is this is simple psychology. The guy is ready for the big leagues and is not engaged in the minor leagues anymore. We're seeing regression because he wasn't called up when he was ready. You bring him up and he'll shape right up and, obviously, be our best starter the second he's called up.

I understand rebuilding, but when prospects show they're ready and are past the Super 2, it is detrimental to their development to leave them in the minors for no reason.

I feel the opposite.  Getting called up isn't going to help.  He has to be able to find the strike zone consistently.  He is running into guys at AAA who will chase less, so he is struggling more.  That is only going to get worse at the major league level.

[Jake]

I'll just reiterate that the choice is really simple: Unless he has a run of major, major duds like his last outing, you call him up as soon as he strings together 2 or 3 decent outings.

[Bob Sacamano]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-haugh-white-sox-michael-kopech-20180619-story.html

Posted for relevance.

Edited June 19, 2018 by soxfan2014

[BlackSox13]

3 hours ago, Steve9347 said:

Someone needs to update the thread title to: Kopech no longer "getting closer".

My take is this is simple psychology. The guy is ready for the big leagues and is not engaged in the minor leagues anymore. We're seeing regression because he wasn't called up when he was ready. You bring him up and he'll shape right up and, obviously, be our best starter the second he's called up.

I understand rebuilding, but when prospects show they're ready and are past the Super 2, it is detrimental to their development to leave them in the minors for no reason.

I doubt this. Kopech was never ready so if he's butthurt over not being called up yet then he's got some maturing to do yet. 

[Bob Sacamano]

17 hours ago, BlackSox13 said:

I doubt this. Kopech was never ready so if he's butthurt over not being called up yet then he's got some maturing to do yet. 

And probably not mentally strong enough to be an MLB pitcher.

[BlackSox13]

31 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

And probably not mentally strong enough to be an MLB pitcher.

Exactly. I was going to throw " mental midget" into that post but it gets used often enough.

IMHO, Kopech looks to be mentally pressing to perform for the call-up and could be going through a bit if a dead arm phase. I watched highlights of his last start and it was obvious he couldn't find his release point to save his life. He was all over the place. It's why I suspect the dead arm phase as part of the problem. He'll get his muscle memory back and be fine. He's just not ready, yet.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

18 hours ago, BlackSox13 said:

I doubt this. Kopech was never ready so if he's butthurt over not being called up yet then he's got some maturing to do yet. 

Yea me too. Either show what you got where you are or stay there until you prove you belong at a higher level. No one can say for sure the reason that he under performing. Personally I just think it's because he has a lot to learn. I think he comes out of his funk fairly soon . Once he proves he is ready by commanding some of his pitches he'll be here. Just string some very solid starts together, like  4 out of 5 , and he'll be here at a still very young age.

[chitownsportsfan]

I'd suggest he tunes down the football style training next offseason as well and works instead on finding the weight range that will be optimal for him as a MLB pitcher for the next decade.  I can't imagine it's easier to find a release point when you put on 5-8lbs of lean mass.  Body is just positioned a bit differently in the motion.

[BlackSox13]

27 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Yea me too. Either show what you got where you are or stay there until you prove you belong at a higher level. No one can say for sure the reason that he under performing. Personally I just think it's because he has a lot to learn. I think he comes out of his funk fairly soon . Once he proves he is ready by commanding some of his pitches he'll be here. Just string some very solid starts together, like  4 out of 5 , and he'll be here at a still very young age.

IIRC, Cooper said Kopech tries to throw the shit out if every pitch. Right now he's a thrower and not a pitcher, which I believe Stone has basically said as well. Hopefully Kopech will realize his stuff is plenty good enough where he doesn't need max effort for every pitch. He's still learning how to become a pitcher.

[Bob Sacamano]

26 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said:

IIRC, Cooper said Kopech tries to throw the shit out if every pitch. Right now he's a thrower and not a pitcher, which I believe Stone has basically said as well. Hopefully Kopech will realize his stuff is plenty good enough where he doesn't need max effort for every pitch. He's still learning how to become a pitcher.

I've been saying the guy could sacrifice a bit of velocity for control and still throw really hard.

[joejoedairy]

The Knights game that they showed on TV in Chicago where Kopech pitched, he didn't appear to be over throwing or maxing out every pitch to me. It was fairly smooth and easy motion and he was 95-98 with good movement. 

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I'd suggest he tunes down the football style training next offseason as well and works instead on finding the weight range that will be optimal for him as a MLB pitcher for the next decade.  I can't imagine it's easier to find a release point when you put on 5-8lbs of lean mass.  Body is just positioned a bit differently in the motion.

This really doesnt make a difference as l0ng as he maintains the flexiblity. As ive said all along its more about not trying trying to throw the ball through a wall consistently.

[ptatc]

36 minutes ago, joejoedairy said:

The Knights game that they showed on TV in Chicago where Kopech pitched, he didn't appear to be over throwing or maxing out every pitch to me. It was fairly smooth and easy motion and he was 95-98 with good movement. 

Smooth mechanics doesnt mean he isnt using the top range of his velocity too often. 

[BlackSox13]

Didn't Kopech lose a friend recently? That along with his breakup with his girlfriend could be weighing on him mentally. Give him time and he'll rebound, hopefully starting tonight.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

58 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said:

Didn't Kopech lose a friend recently? That along with his breakup with his girlfriend could be weighing on him mentally. Give him time and he'll rebound, hopefully starting tonight.

His cousin died.

[soxfan49]

*Tries to look at the brightside*

If Moncada turns out to be even close to Cano and Kopech ends up as one of baseball's best closers, it's still a great trade.

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, Tony said:

https://theathletic.com/400846/2018/06/21/whats-behind-michael-kopechs-recent-struggles/

Thanks for that update.  That explains a lot.

[ptatc]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Thanks for that update.  That explains a lot.

What? Family issues and personal issues don't effect someone's  performance at work, especially if you are never there and don't get to see anyone.

It's difficult to appreciate the personal hardships of a baseball season. Granted they get paid well once they get to the MLB but not in the minors.

I did it for a couple of seasons in the minors and a partial MLB season and had to get out. We didn't get paid like the players though. ?

[kitekrazy]

On 6/16/2018 at 6:13 AM, Dick Allen said:

If there is one thing this stretch has shown, Kopech isn’t ready for the major leagues. It might be good for him long term.

So true.  I know this season is bad but I don't care to risk a kid's development because the Sox are so terrible. Sept. is OK.  I don't want to enter the debate of a failed prospect is because they brought them up too soon. Besides I'm really enjoying watching Milb.