Immigration thread

[Soxbadger]

Didnt you read the article Bighurt posted. They are only "briefly" separated. The universe is 5billion years old, 6 months, 1 year is really "brief" in that context.

 

Again lets never forget who the terrible people are. So that we can always remember them. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, raBBit said:

The American people are a welcoming and generous people. But those who enter our country illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of law. And because we live in an age where terrorists are challenging our borders, we simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, and unchecked. Americans are right to demand better border security and better enforcement of the immigration laws.

Ugh.  If there is one thing the Americans have always been, it is xenophobic.  The only thing we have been welcome of it more of our own types.  English speaking white Europeans?  Sure.  Come on over.

We have targeted so many different ethnic groups over the centuries, using the same language and the same phrases to do it.  The Chinese Exclusion Act, Japanese interment camps, The African Slave trade, No Irish allowed, on and on.  All went back to the tried and true "safety" arguments that continue to get used here to this day.  Go back and revisit the Zoot Suit riots where Mexicans were being accused of raping US women and were randomly murdered for essentially no reason other than hysteria.  If you look at maps of our major cities, a large reason why you see places named Chinatown, Little Italy, Germantown, and the like was the forced segregation and the anti-immigrant sentiments of the periods of times for those ethic groups mass migrations.  It is why barrios exist around the US exist today.  And please don't pretend like there wasn't terrorism or immigrant violence in the 19th century or whenever our families came over.  I mean can we start with the Mafia?  Did we shutdown Italian immigration because of that?  There has always been an element of trouble, but that is due to poverty and not due to ethnic lines.  It isn't Mexicans that are more dangerous than other immigrant groups in the 21st century.  That whole idea is just ridiculous.

At the end of the day it is one thing to have a structured and legal immigration program in place.  But this is a whole other level of humanity here.  It also doesn't matter who started it or whatever other political points people want to gain here.  For the modern superpower of the world to be acting in this manner is a disgrace.  We would have a holy fit if American children were being held without legal representation in camps of this nature in another country.  It would be a human rights crisis of the highest degree. 

And honestly this is something that hasn't been touched since Ronald Reagan was President.  No one has had the guts to fix it.  Now comes along Donald Trump to exploit it, and to gain from it.  While other President turned a blind eye, including Democrats, there is no arguing that Trump has pushed this to another level.  The evidence is all 100% clear there.  Both are true.

[StrangeSox]

Scratch that 2k number from April,. Now it's nearly 6,000 children they've simply lost track of.

 

There is no doubt some of the kids torn from their parents will never be reunited.

 

Pure cruelty. And yet people keep defending it.

 

[RockRaines]

Pathetic alt right fucks should be eaten alive by actual conservatives. Let me know when they grow a spine. 

[GoSox05]

34 minutes ago, raBBit said:

I think it's good context for how much the country is shifted. People act like we live in some right wing island but the vast majority of republicans are good with gay marriage and democrats went from wanting common sense immigration to wanting open borders and having disregard for laws. I made no opinions. Just posted the quote.

Nice try? I got SS to Obama a fascist. I'd say that was worth a chuckle. Obama's administration did separate families at the border. Just not to the same extent as the current admin.

Support For Same-Sex Marriage Isn’t Unanimous

Quote

A majority of conservative Republicans (58 percent), Republicans overall (51 percent), Mormons (53 percent), white evangelical Protestants (58 percent) and adults in Alabama (51 percent) oppose same-sex marriage, according to a survey released this week by the Public Religion Research Institute.

A vast majority are not "good" with gay marriage.  It's better than it used to be, but far from a majority being good with it. 

Also, on immigration the Republicans have moved far to the right and Democrats have shifted with them.  What used to be moderate views on immigration are viewed as "open borders!".

 

[Soxbadger]

1 hour ago, raBBit said:

I think it's good context for how much the country is shifted. People act like we live in some right wing island but the vast majority of republicans are good with gay marriage and democrats went from wanting common sense immigration to wanting open borders and having disregard for laws. I made no opinions. Just posted the quote.

Nice try? I got SS to Obama a fascist. I'd say that was worth a chuckle. Obama's administration did separate families at the border. Just not to the same extent as the current admin.

Im not sure what the rest of the countries opinion really matters when it comes to right and wrong. If 99% of the people thought slavery was good, it doesnt make it so.

I think you misunderstand my argument. I dont want a disregard for laws, I want the laws removed. Just like segregation, just like slavery, I want them erased. I want people to look back at this time period and think about how backwards of a time it was for what the US is doing to immigrants.

The laws should make it easier to legally immigrate to the US. 

Here is a Cato article on the positives of Immigration and GDP:

https://www.cato.org/blog/economic-growth-under-trump-immigration-plan

Edited June 19, 2018 by Soxbadger

[StrangeSox]

 

 

[StrangeSox]

We're going to find graves.

[BigHurt3515]

19 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

We're going to find graves.

I am pretty positive they showed on NBC earlier that these tents have AC but that doesn't look as bad if included in the tweet.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

 

 

[Jerksticks]

11 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

Im not sure what the rest of the countries opinion really matters when it comes to right and wrong. If 99% of the people thought slavery was good, it doesnt make it so.

I think you misunderstand my argument. I dont want a disregard for laws, I want the laws removed. Just like segregation, just like slavery, I want them erased. I want people to look back at this time period and think about how backwards of a time it was for what the US is doing to immigrants.

The laws should make it easier to legally immigrate to the US. 

Here is a Cato article on the positives of Immigration and GDP:

https://www.cato.org/blog/economic-growth-under-trump-immigration-plan

Why did we ever start putting limits on immigration in the first place?  Which congress did it and why?

[Soxbadger]

23 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Why did we ever start putting limits on immigration in the first place?  Which congress did it and why?

The main reasons have generally been xenophobic/racist. Rules to keep "others" out. I'm. It sure when first quotas were established but definitely before WWII you were already seeing rules to prevent certain "kinds" of people out. Its late so I'm just guessing but maybe Chinese immigrants or even Irish were the first targets of actual immigration laws. 

I may try and get do some digging tomorrow.

[caulfield12]

16 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Ugh.  If there is one thing the Americans have always been, it is xenophobic.  The only thing we have been welcome of it more of our own types.  English speaking white Europeans?  Sure.  Come on over.

We have targeted so many different ethnic groups over the centuries, using the same language and the same phrases to do it.  The Chinese Exclusion Act, Japanese interment camps, The African Slave trade, No Irish allowed, on and on.  All went back to the tried and true "safety" arguments that continue to get used here to this day.  Go back and revisit the Zoot Suit riots where Mexicans were being accused of raping US women and were randomly murdered for essentially no reason other than hysteria.  If you look at maps of our major cities, a large reason why you see places named Chinatown, Little Italy, Germantown, and the like was the forced segregation and the anti-immigrant sentiments of the periods of times for those ethic groups mass migrations.  It is why barrios exist around the US exist today.  And please don't pretend like there wasn't terrorism or immigrant violence in the 19th century or whenever our families came over.  I mean can we start with the Mafia?  Did we shutdown Italian immigration because of that?  There has always been an element of trouble, but that is due to poverty and not due to ethnic lines.  It isn't Mexicans that are more dangerous than other immigrant groups in the 21st century.  That whole idea is just ridiculous.

At the end of the day it is one thing to have a structured and legal immigration program in place.  But this is a whole other level of humanity here.  It also doesn't matter who started it or whatever other political points people want to gain here.  For the modern superpower of the world to be acting in this manner is a disgrace.  We would have a holy fit if American children were being held without legal representation in camps of this nature in another country.  It would be a human rights crisis of the highest degree. 

And honestly this is something that hasn't been touched since Ronald Reagan was President.  No one has had the guts to fix it.  Now comes along Donald Trump to exploit it, and to gain from it.  While other President turned a blind eye, including Democrats, there is no arguing that Trump has pushed this to another level.  The evidence is all 100% clear there.  Both are true.

McCain, Gang of Eight deserve at least some credit for trying at least.  But you know the optics are simply terrible when Ted Cruz starts turning on Trump in Texas, despite the less than 10% likelihood Beto O’Rourke could actually beat him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_massacre_of_1871 (LA, one of the largest mass lynchings in US history)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Massacre_Cove (Oregon)

 

The Chinese Exclusion Act was a United States federal law signed by President Chester A. Arthur on May 6, 1882, prohibiting all immigration of Chinese laborers. The act followed the Angell Treaty of 1880, a set of revisions to the U.S.–China Burlingame Treaty of 1868 that allowed the U.S. to suspend Chinese immigration. The act was initially intended to last for 10 years, but was renewed in 1892 with the Geary Act and made permanent in 1902. The Chinese Exclusion Act was the first law implemented to prevent a specific ethnic group from immigrating to the United States. It was repealed by the Magnuson Act on December 17, 1943.

61 years it lasted!!!   Of course, Chester Arthur was a Republican, too.  Repealed by a Democratic Congress and FDR.

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Fascist, sure!  Very different slant on things when you deliberately remove the context of those first two paragraphs...isn’t it?  Alas, nuance.

Rep. Will Hurd, a Texas Republican who is one of the GOP's most endangered lawmakers in November, told CNN's Erin Burnett that it wasn't clear what would happen next.

 

"I think it's a little bit ridiculous that we have to legislate that you shouldn't take kids from their mommies," Hurd said.

 

“The thought that they are going to be putting such little kids in an institutional setting? I mean it is hard for me to even wrap my mind around it,” said Kay Bellor, vice president for programs at Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service, “Toddlers are being detained.”
 

 

While many conservatives maligned President Obama when he was in office, it’s easy to forget that he was fairly diligent in his policies working against illegal immigration.

In fact, those views go back even further than his time as president starting in 2008. He gave a passionate speech about immigration reform in 2006, while he was Senator Barack Obama, addressed to President Bush.

Initially, he discusses the benefits that immigration can have on the community when it’s done the correct and legal way.

“I believe we can work together to pass immigration reform in a way that unites the people in this country, not in a way that divides us by playing on our worst instincts and fears,” he said. “Like millions of Americans, the immigrant story is also my story.”

“My father came here from Kenya, and I represent a state where vibrant immigrant communities ranging from Mexican to Polish to Irish enrich our cities and neighborhoods.”

He then proceeds to address the issue of illegal immigration, first describing the American people as, “welcoming and generous.”

“But those who enter our country illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of law. And because we live in an age where terrorists are challenging our borders, we simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented and unchecked,” he continued.

He said all of this in defense of a stronger border security bill and he clearly was and is very passionate about the issue. It is more relevant now than ever and is seen in the headlines of every major news station on a daily basis – if not more.

“Americans are right to demand better border security and better enforcement of the immigration laws,” Obama said.

Edited June 20, 2018 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Privately, many of us who know Nielsen from Georgetown cannot believe that she is the same person who we see as, if not the architect, then certainly the engineer of this tragically dark chapter of our nation's history. "How does she bring herself to do this?" questioned one mutual friend in a recent group chat among several SFS alums. 

 

The issue is that among those of us who know her, we can be fairly certain that Nielsen hates this policy and hates defending it, but she feels that in the oddball "Game of Thrones"-like environment of the Trump presidency, she was handed an opportunity to land a Cabinet level position -- one that she might not have gotten in any other administration. For Nielsen, her reasoning for staying on and pretending to defend the policy could be quite simple: This is the most important role she will ever hold in her life, and to give it up after just a few months on the job would be asinine.

 

But Nielsen needs to think this through more than one chess move ahead. If we have learned anything in the past year and a half of the Trump presidency, it is that Donald Trump never takes responsibility or blame for anything. As this crisis at the border grows in scale and magnitude, and as his claims that this is all the "Democrats' fault" fail to stick anywhere outside of far-right media, Trump will look for a new scapegoat -- and there is none more obvious than his arguably underqualified secretary of Homeland Security. That clock is already ticking.

 

If there is but a scintilla of good left in Kirstjen Nielsen's soul -- and we who have known her for several decades think there is -- she has only one good option and that is to resign her post as secretary of Homeland Security, a move  suggested Monday afternoon by California Sen. Kamala Harris. 

 

If Nielsen were to resign, it would be a powerful blow to Trump's zero-tolerance strategy at the border, by effectively throwing the onus of the unpopular policy back squarely into the Oval Office. An acting homeland secretary would take the reins of a highly toxic policy, while Trump is forced to search for yet another Cabinet level position. The ensuing confirmation hearings would essentially become a congressional referendum on Trump's border and immigration policies, subjecting American living rooms to days, if not weeks, of torrid, heartbreaking stories of children being yanked from their parents' clutches being read aloud in congressional chambers. 

 

But Trump is smarter than that -- he would use Nielsen's departure as an excuse to halt or revert the family separation policy. Nielsen, instead of going down in the annals of the Trump presidency as an enabler of actions that have been compared to World War II Japanese internment camps, could emerge as the heroine of this crisis, falling on her own sword for the good of the more than 2,000 children who don't have a father or mother nearby to console them and for the moral compass of an entire nation. 

 

Kirstjen, think about it.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/19/opinions/dhs-secretary-kirstjen-nielsen-must-resign-wierson/index.html

Edited June 20, 2018 by caulfield12

[StrangeSox]

 

 

[RockRaines]

But the Maga bros told me the babies have oxygen so it’s cool.  

[Brian]

Is it just my computer or is Caufield's font bigger? I feel like he is yelling at me.

[RockRaines]

2 hours ago, Brian said:

Is it just my computer or is Caufield's font bigger? I feel like he is yelling at me.

No, hes definitely yelling at you.

[StrangeSox]

when you copy-paste from another website, it keeps the website's formatting unless you click the "clear formatting" button.

 

[Soxbadger]

We all knew that they were liars and horrible people. Just like the people in this thread who blindly supported them. 

[RockRaines]

11 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

We all knew that they were liars and horrible people. Just like the people in this thread who blindly supported them. 

He's going to try and get credit for putting out a fire that he started.  The pizzagate morons will probably praise him as a humanitarian.

 

 

[GoSox05]

They are probably going to try and attach it to some crazy immigration bill and then when Dems don't vote for it, they will blame Democrats for it.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, GoSox05 said:

They are probably going to try and attach it to some crazy immigration bill and then when Dems don't vote for it, they will blame Democrats for it.

Trump is nothing if not a humanitarian.

 

 

[StrangeSox]