Soxfest Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 RR is a point A to B manager............Point B to C will be someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 18 hours ago, fathom said: In Heyman's weekly notes, he's made a few comments about how poorly the Sox are playing in terms of fundamentals. Wonder if this is part of why he mentioned the Girardi speculation. They have managed to never have a shortage of baseball dumb players. I don't think it's something they value. By the time kids make it up to the majors they should know the fundamentals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Agreed. Sox have had a ton of dumb dumbs.. Alexei, viciedo... Etc etc.. Its not totally the managers fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, JoshPR said: Agreed. Sox have had a ton of dumb dumbs.. Alexei, viciedo... Etc etc.. Its not totally the managers fault. Alexei was a GG caliber shortstop and a very good player in his prime. Care to elaborate on the dumb dumb comment? Has anybody ever though that maybe SS is a freaking hard position to play, and there will just be more errors/mental lapses due to the difficulty of the position? Also, not sure about the Viciedo comment. Didn't strike me as a dumb guy. He just stunk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 On 6/16/2018 at 10:11 AM, Soxfest said: RR is a point A to B manager............Point B to C will be someone else. THIS. Ricky is destined to be the head of Latin American operations or some position like this within the organization. Great guy...leaves something to be desired for somebody running the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Hot FiRe said: Alexei was a GG caliber shortstop and a very good player in his prime. Care to elaborate on the dumb dumb comment? Has anybody ever though that maybe SS is a freaking hard position to play, and there will just be more errors/mental lapses due to the difficulty of the position? Also, not sure about the Viciedo comment. Didn't strike me as a dumb guy. He just stunk. For what its worth to you I was told by one of the Sox announcers a few years ago when Alexei was playing the he was (direct quote) "the dumbest shortstop in baseball." The comment was made not because of the physical errors which are part of the game but because of all the mental mistakes in the field (example his issues with the double play, touching the actual base for an example) and his base running misjudgements. He was in the league a long time, those didn't seem to improve. I seem to recall an incident between A.J. and him for another example on his positioning when receiving throws from the catcher. A.J. wasn't happy about it. I'd have to agree with a previous poster, the Sox for the last decade or so really make you wonder if the organization stresses anything regarding fundamentals. It seems simple things, baseball situations are screwed up a lot. One way for the rebuild to increase the chances of succeeding is for these kids in the minor leagues to actually learn their trade / craft and master the "little things." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said: For what its worth to you I was told by one of the Sox announcers a few years ago when Alexei was playing the he was (direct quote) "the dumbest shortstop in baseball." The comment was made not because of the physical errors which are part of the game but because of all the mental mistakes in the field (example his issues with the double play, touching the actual base for an example) and his base running misjudgements. He was in the league a long time, those didn't seem to improve. I seem to recall an incident between A.J. and him for another example on his positioning when receiving throws from the catcher. A.J. wasn't happy about it. I'd have to agree with a previous poster, the Sox for the last decade or so really make you wonder if the organization stresses anything regarding fundamentals. It seems simple things, baseball situations are screwed up a lot. One way for the rebuild to increase the chances of succeeding is for these kids in the minor leagues to actually learn their trade / craft and master the "little things." Thank you. Saved me a lot of time. People were blinded by the occasional dazzling play made by Alexei. I was glad when he was gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 FWIW- Jerry Remy is the long-time color announcer for Red Sox games. One of his roles every game in the first inning is to list the defense in the field. Once he lists the 8 positions he gives where the team is rated defensively in the AL. During a White Sox game 3 or 4 years ago, he noted that they were a poor fielding team that year. But then he said he noticed they took very limited infield practice before road games. He said he found that odd since Ventura was a former infielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 4 hours ago, JoshPR said: Thank you. Saved me a lot of time. People were blinded by the occasional dazzling play made by Alexei. I was glad when he was gone You must not be very educated on advanced defensive metrics. Save me some time and go do some research on fangraphs. Alexei was an above average defender at the hardest fielding position to play outside of catcher. It seems it is more you being blinded by his occasional blunders, not me being blinded by his dazzling plays. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Hot FiRe said: You must not be very educated on advanced defensive metrics. Save me some time and go do some research on fangraphs. Alexei was an above average defender at the hardest fielding position to play outside of catcher. It seems it is more you being blinded by his occasional blunders, not me being blinded by his dazzling plays. I got the eye test.... Fielding metrics ain't always accurate and don't cover the broad spectrum. But hey you keep your metrics its fine and your opinion. And thanks for calling me dumb... I guess a computer can tell more than the eye. Tell me how many times didn't he cover the bag? Or miss on the pivot? How many times 2 on and a wild pitcher he would swing at the first piece of carp he would see to GIDP? No situational awareness. Your metrics don't cover that. Metrics in moderation is a good thing, but they don't tell the whole story.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) I am very critical of Rick's in-game management. However, what does firing him right now accomplish? It couldn't be more obvious that he was never supposed to be "the guy" for the real job once it came time to compete. Just keep the ship moving towards our destination. We're not supposed to be winning right now, so... we're not. This is what we all wanted. This is what we all got. If you're preparing to storm the beach at Normandy. Does it really matter whose driving the f*ckin boat to drop you off? Nah. It matters whose leading the charge once you get your boots on solid ground. That guy will be here relatively soon. Look, watching a manager piss away a handful of baseball games isn't fun. Even in a season like this, it still bugs me. Firing him just doesn't do anything. Even with a competent manager, what do we have? 70-72 wins instead of 65? You won't even remember these games we're dropping in 2-3 years. Edited June 18, 2018 by Richie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Having suffered the Robin Ventura era, I have a hard time jumping on Ricky when the games absolutely don't matter. No need to can him now - move along in the off-season to the next former White Sox player with no managerial experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Steve9347 said: Having suffered the Robin Ventura era, I have a hard time jumping on Ricky when the games absolutely don't matter. No need to can him now - move along in the off-season to the next former White Sox player with no managerial experience. Renteria was a former White Sox player with no managerial experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, ptatc said: Renteria was a former White Sox player with no managerial experience? No, Renteria was the outsider brought in as a change-of-pace. Since he didn't work out, we're back in the previous cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 On 6/17/2018 at 7:11 PM, JoshPR said: I got the eye test.... Fielding metrics ain't always accurate and don't cover the broad spectrum. But hey you keep your metrics its fine and your opinion. And thanks for calling me dumb... I guess a computer can tell more than the eye. Tell me how many times didn't he cover the bag? Or miss on the pivot? How many times 2 on and a wild pitcher he would swing at the first piece of carp he would see to GIDP? No situational awareness. Your metrics don't cover that. Metrics in moderation is a good thing, but they don't tell the whole story.... arguing from anecdote on a guy long retired isn't helping your cause. If you want the eye test take it from a guy that loved watching him play and saw him every game -- Hawk. Doesn't get much more "old school" than Hawk and he loved watching Ramirez field. As did anybody that wasn't biased by his occasional mental lapses. Ramirez had a fucking gun for an arm and I miss having it at SS. TA is athletic, but he does not have the cannon Ramirez did in his prime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Ricky rep was teacher of youth. I am not seeing a future Earl Weaver. As long as he doesn't mouth off like Oz he has a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 On 6/17/2018 at 10:58 PM, Richie said: I am very critical of Rick's in-game management. However, what does firing him right now accomplish? It couldn't be more obvious that he was never supposed to be "the guy" for the real job once it came time to compete. Just keep the ship moving towards our destination. We're not supposed to be winning right now, so... we're not. This is what we all wanted. This is what we all got. If you're preparing to storm the beach at Normandy. Does it really matter whose driving the f*ckin boat to drop you off? Nah. It matters whose leading the charge once you get your boots on solid ground. That guy will be here relatively soon. Look, watching a manager piss away a handful of baseball games isn't fun. Even in a season like this, it still bugs me. Firing him just doesn't do anything. Even with a competent manager, what do we have? 70-72 wins instead of 65? You won't even remember these games we're dropping in 2-3 years. Remember that a Harvard guy who could organize Heaven's luau thought Rick could take us through Death Valley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 30 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: arguing from anecdote on a guy long retired isn't helping your cause. If you want the eye test take it from a guy that loved watching him play and saw him every game -- Hawk. Doesn't get much more "old school" than Hawk and he loved watching Ramirez field. As did anybody that wasn't biased by his occasional mental lapses. Ramirez had a fucking gun for an arm and I miss having it at SS. TA is athletic, but he does not have the cannon Ramirez did in his prime. Alexei was the poster child for million dollar arm and 10 cent head at SS. He did get a lot better the longer he was in the US, but he had zero baseball IQ when he first got here. Of all people, that year he spent with Omar Vizquel was huge for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Alexei was the poster child for million dollar arm and 10 cent head at SS. He did get a lot better the longer he was in the US, but he had zero baseball IQ when he first got here. Of all people, that year he spent with Omar Vizquel was huge for him. I think this came up at one point with the Robert signing but the fundamentals of when to throw home, what base to cut to, how to defend a bunt -- stuff that most US players learn in American Legion ball, HS and College just isn't taught at the lower levels in Cuba, the Dominican and Venezuela. PR is bit different as they have a more organized coaching infrastructure in place. It's hard to learn that stuff on the fly in MLB. Alexei's brainfarts never bothered me that much. I did however get a lot of joy out of his plays deep in the hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Just now, chitownsportsfan said: I think this came up at one point with the Robert signing but the fundamentals of when to throw home, what base to cut to, how to defend a bunt -- stuff that most US players learn in American Legion ball, HS and College just isn't taught at the lower levels in Cuba, the Dominican and Venezuela. PR is bit different as they have a more organized coaching infrastructure in place. It's hard to learn that stuff on the fly in MLB. Alexei's brainfarts never bothered me that much. I did however get a lot of joy out of his plays deep in the hole. We saw it with Alexei, we saw it with Dayan, and we saw it with Abreu. They just don't teach the same basics in Cuba. Agree 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesdiego Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Sounded before like the White Sox originally wanted to transition from Ventura to Sandy Alomar Jr before Ricky. He checks the boxes of being a former player and first time manager. And latino so can still relate to the latin players like Ricky has. I imagine he would bunt less. Better in game decisions? Who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Steve9347 said: No, Renteria was the outsider brought in as a change-of-pace. Since he didn't work out, we're back in the previous cycle. Outsider? What was he doing before he was hired to be their manager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 On 6/15/2018 at 11:20 PM, Lip Man 1 said: I do agree that it seems to be a "closed" "family" type operation. Unless you are part of or were part of the Sox there doesn't seem to be a place for outsiders. That's bad because you start to get a "group think" in certain areas if everyone is having the same experiences. They need new blood, outside the organization with fresh ideas and ways of looking at the issues and problems. Again though that's not JR's way, it's seems to be "loyalty" above all else unfortunately. I think the rebuild has a good chance of working, but I think it would have had a better chance if the same front office that put the franchise into the ditch wasn't being asked to fix it. All you can do as a fan is hope it all works in the end. Yes I agree. All we have is hope with nothing to base it on. But there is hope. But JR wasn't always like this. He fired Hemond, fired Piersall, let Caray walk, fired Larusa, fired Hawk, rehired Hawk, fired Torborg, fired Himes.... And then one day he hired Ron Scheuler and for some reason he became the chosen one and from then it has been all in the family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 3 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said: arguing from anecdote on a guy long retired isn't helping your cause. If you want the eye test take it from a guy that loved watching him play and saw him every game -- Hawk. Doesn't get much more "old school" than Hawk and he loved watching Ramirez field. As did anybody that wasn't biased by his occasional mental lapses. Ramirez had a fucking gun for an arm and I miss having it at SS. TA is athletic, but he does not have the cannon Ramirez did in his prime. Hawk also liked to see moises throw....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) Some names to keep an eye on Joe Girardi Raul Ibanez - Dodgers Special Assistant to GM Brad Ausmus - Angels Special Assistant Brandon Hyde - Cubs Bench Coach/Has ties to the Sox Chris Woodward - Dodgers Third Base Coach Sandy Alomar Jr. - Indians First Base Coach/Has ties to the Sox Bo Porter - Braves Special Assistant Jayce Tingler - Rangers Special Assistant Josh Paul - Angels Bench Coach/Has ties to the Sox/Angels Catcher who dropped the third strike on AJ in the 2005 ALCS I was all for the Sox going after and hiring Gabe Kapler to replace Robin Ventura. Now, I still want someone who fits that mold. Edited June 20, 2018 by Joshua Strong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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