footlongcomiskeydog Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 21 minutes ago, fathom said: Good call, and it's not like their offense is excelling. What they have though is 5 competent starting pitchers, including an ace in Nola The Phillies have been rebuilding since 2014 and are only 5 games above 500. Let's check back in on them in a couple months. If the Sox follow that course we won't see above 500 play until 2021. That sounds depressing. The Phillies also spent some $ on Arrieta. You have to figure that they will be be going hard after Machado, Harper, Arenando as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 15 minutes ago, DH in the NL said: At the time of the trade Tatis wasn’t a top 300 prospect. It’s a horrible trade now because of Tatis’ surge. That couldn’t have been projected back then by anyone. Padres took a chance, and so far it’s looked good for them. You forget that the Sox drafted Sale and got Quintana for nothing. Jury is still out, but Moncada, Kopech, and Basabe was a very good haul for Sale. No other team could’ve gotten Jimenez and Cease for Quintana. Why isn’t everyone just as excited about that deal as the Padres are in Tatis? I know I am. I assume “expecting to compete” means a playoff spot correct? Answering that is dependent on many factors. I’d hope after this year the Sox spend some money on proven players, not projects to flip, and make a trade or 2 that give us a more competitive team headed into next year. That’s how I could see the Sox “competing” in 2019. AJ Preller had already scouted Tatis Jr. pretty heavily before the White Sox even signed him. There’s a thread about this. We got snookered by a guy with perhaps the most extensive Latin American scouting focus in the game today, quite simply. Their scouts were all over extended spring games in 2016 reconfirming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: AJ Preller had already scouted Tatis Jr. pretty heavily before the White Sox even signed him. There’s a thread about this. We got snookered by a guy with perhaps the most extensive Latin American scouting focus in the game today, quite simply. Their scouts were all over extended spring games in 2016 reconfirming. And yes the Sox getting Eloy in a trade was great, but they also gave up a great asset to get him. Getting someone who's likely the number 1 prospect in baseball heading into 2019 for James Shields (let's not forget his last Padres start) is potentially one of those historic trades everyone remembers. I've always said I'm less angry the Sox gave up Tatis than I am them going after Shields anyway. Hahn clearly should have been fired after 2016. Edited June 20, 2018 by fathom 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 43 minutes ago, [email protected] said: I don't trust this FO and think it is extremely incompetent. Just a few years back Hahn and Williams were talking about some 3 year plan that never came to fruition and/or was abandoned after 2 years. They traded a guy who is the now a top five prospect in all of baseball for James Shields and then decided to switch gears and rebuild. That trade is a fire-able offense in my world. You seem to know what the plan is. Can you please tell me what year the Sox are expecting to compete in? I thought it was 2020, but I might have missed the memo that it got pushed back to 2011. Thank you. I remember when the 2013 white Sox season collapsed Hahn traded for Avi Garcia which Hahn said was the start of a rebuild. The team has gone nowhere in the 6 years Hahn has been the GM. He should thank his lucky stars he still has his job. If he had been the GM in virtually every MLB city he would of been fired by now. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 49 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: That's what I would guess, but you have to figure they will have a pretty good September. They always do when they aren't in contention. They aren't in contention now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, fathom said: And yes the Sox getting Eloy in a trade was great, but they also gave up a great asset to get him. Getting someone who's likely the number 1 prospect in baseball heading int 2019 for James Shields (let's not forget his last Padres start) is potentially one of those historic trades everyone remembers. Will it match Brock for Broglio. By the talk here, it may have already. Right now i would say liriano for escobar was worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footlongcomiskeydog Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 19 minutes ago, DH in the NL said: At the time of the trade Tatis wasn’t a top 300 prospect. It’s a horrible trade now because of Tatis’ surge. That couldn’t have been projected back then by anyone. Padres took a chance, and so far it’s looked good for them. You forget that the Sox drafted Sale and got Quintana for nothing. Jury is still out, but Moncada, Kopech, and Basabe was a very good haul for Sale. No other team could’ve gotten Jimenez and Cease for Quintana. Why isn’t everyone just as excited about that deal as the Padres are in Tatis? I know I am. I assume “expecting to compete” means a playoff spot correct? Answering that is dependent on many factors. I’d hope after this year the Sox spend some money on proven players, not projects to flip, and make a trade or 2 that give us a more competitive team headed into next year. That’s how I could see the Sox “competing” in 2019. I disagree here. Someone in the Sox organization saw enough in Tatis to sign him and he has the bloodlines which were obviously known about at the time of the trade. The Sox eating most of Shields salary, Eric Johnson, and a couple deep dish pizzas should have been enough for Shields. Hahn and company done messed up there. You are basically agreeing with my original premise in your last paragraph. The Sox need to spend some $ on the right free agents if they want to get after it in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticky Stuff Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, fathom said: And yes the Sox getting Eloy in a trade was great, but they also gave up a great asset to get him. Getting someone who's likely the number 1 prospect in baseball heading into 2019 for James Shields (let's not forget his last Padres start) is potentially one of those historic trades everyone remembers. I've always said I'm less angry the Sox gave up Tatis than I am them going after Shields anyway. Hahn clearly should have been fired after 2016. There’s no doubt in my mind KW pulled the trigger on the Shields deal. Shields was washed up before we got him, but in KW fashion let’s get the guys here that had hell of careers elsewhere and are no longer relevant major league players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 46 minutes ago, fathom said: Good call, and it's not like their offense is excelling. What they have though is 5 competent starting pitchers, including an ace in Nola Right we certainly need that but their run of great looking pitching in 2016 was both serially injured, or faced setbacks to their development. We are seeing both but we do not have a Nola right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, fathom said: Hahn clearly should have been fired after 2016. Indeed. It's still not too late. The Shields deal was all Hahn. Hahn learned the game from Kenny Williams. He's the only guy he ever worked for in baseball. Sure he may have wanted to rebuild before Kenny did, but they are aligned. The Shields trade was a lazy effort, similar to Williams' 2012 trades for Liriano and his 5.31 ERA and Myers. Edited June 20, 2018 by GreenSox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticky Stuff Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, [email protected] said: I disagree here. Someone in the Sox organization saw enough in Tatis to sign him and he has the bloodlines which were obviously known about at the time of the trade. The Sox eating most of Shields salary, Eric Johnson, and a couple deep dish pizzas should have been enough for Shields. Hahn and company done messed up there. You are basically agreeing with my original premise in your last paragraph. The Sox need to spend some $ on the right free agents if they want to get after it in 2010. The Sox have plenty of money to spend this off season. I’m on board with spending it. I just don’t think Machado or Harper would be a wise decision this off season, and extending Abreu is pointless if we can get something of value in trade for him now. I want Arenado, but giving up prospects for him with no guarantee of him signing with us is the same situation we’d have if we traded for Machado now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, ptatc said: Will it match Brock for Broglio. By the talk here, it may have already. Right now i would say liriano for escobar was worse. But at least 2012 squad was in a pennant race. As for Escobar, there was absolutely nothing to suggest he could hit in the big leagues. He had below average wRC+ in A, AA and AAA. Escobar is 29 and has accumulated 8.4 fWAR. I strongly believe Tatis Jr. will have more than that by the time he turns 23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Speaking of Escobar, how come I get the feeling he has supplanted Moustakas as most likely free agent acquisition by the WSox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 29 minutes ago, DH in the NL said: There’s no doubt in my mind KW pulled the trigger on the Shields deal. Shields was washed up before we got him, but in KW fashion let’s get the guys here that had hell of careers elsewhere and are no longer relevant major league players. The classic everything KW does is bad, everthing Hahn does is good defense is going to plague this board forever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, fathom said: Speaking of Escobar, how come I get the feeling he has supplanted Moustakas as most likely free agent acquisition by the WSox? Adam Jones fits the Hahn/Williams profile. The Shields trade was definitely worse. While both were basically negligent, at least the Sox were actually in the race in 2012 and had reason to make a trade. Hahn was rubbing his rabbit's foot in 2016. And with all due respect to Escobar's nice 2018, Tatis has far more value. Edited June 20, 2018 by GreenSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said: The classic everything KW does is bad, everthing Hahn does is good defense is going to plague this board forever. Just like KW has plagued the Sox 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, GreenSox said: Adam Jones fits the Hahn/Williams profile. He's horrible defensively, so yep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticky Stuff Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Just now, Buehrle>Wood said: The classic everything KW does is bad, everthing Hahn does is good defense is going to plague this board forever. Who said everything Hahn does is good? KW had established himself for years signing or trading for guys that were done long before he got them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 38 minutes ago, [email protected] said: I disagree here. Someone in the Sox organization saw enough in Tatis to sign him and he has the bloodlines which were obviously known about at the time of the trade. The Sox eating most of Shields salary, Eric Johnson, and a couple deep dish pizzas should have been enough for Shields. Hahn and company done messed up there. This has been discussed an length on this board. And then at length again. And again. And again. Time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 hour ago, DH in the NL said: There’s no doubt in my mind KW pulled the trigger on the Shields deal. Shields was washed up before we got him, but in KW fashion let’s get the guys here that had hell of careers elsewhere and are no longer relevant major league players. KW evil incarnate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Sounds like I missed a close one. I hope Ricky made everyone run laps after the game. Did our DP combo lead the way again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 3 hours ago, elrockinMT said: No argument there. Luckily tomorrow is a new game It's not said enough. You, elrockin are the best fan of any team in sports history. ... Name a better one if you disagree. I have no idea how you do it. Somebody should honor you at Sox Park. El Rockin bobblehead day. p.s. I'd try to be more like you, but I always go back to the $$$. A lot of people are making money and I'm out for the fan who I feel gets ripped off at sporting events, thus I want the team to at least be good if the fan is gonna spend that kind of jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 hours ago, DH in the NL said: The Sox have plenty of money to spend this off season. I’m on board with spending it. I just don’t think Machado or Harper would be a wise decision this off season, and extending Abreu is pointless if we can get something of value in trade for him now. I want Arenado, but giving up prospects for him with no guarantee of him signing with us is the same situation we’d have if we traded for Machado now. Old school Greg says IF we were to acquire Machado (we aren't for many reasons; Harper is a lol; no chance) that would be even more reason to keep Abreu. Wow, what a 3B, 1B power combo! To go with Moncada and Tim A who obviously have vast potential of excellence. Seriously ... if Machado is a certainty to join the Sox, which he most certainly isn't, that's more reason to keep Abreu. You'd have something brewing at 1B and 3B for gawd sakes. Trading Abreu whilst acquiring Machado makes zero sense, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 This is reminding me of the Dale Sveum era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 4 hours ago, DH in the NL said: Why would that bother you if they lost that many games when it has been explained to all of us what the plan is? We haven’t been lied to by the FO on the plan. Expectations from the start of this rebuild should’ve been lowered considerably. What are you, and everyone else complaining about this team, pissed off at? You asked and I could answer but I won't. But I would like to point out, I could have answered and not been out of line (peeps on here think I repeat myself too much but in reality a lot of peeps do the same) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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