southsider2k5 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/williams-preaching-learning-patience-in-white-sox-rebuild/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 The comments in this thread should be a fun read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Good article but I don't respect KW for lying. At least admit the losses are not only acceptable, but desired. Glad the article had a negative tone about the rebuild at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 4 hours ago, greg775 said: Good article but I don't respect KW for lying. At least admit the losses are not only acceptable, but desired. Glad the article had a negative tone about the rebuild at least. GMs are not allowed to be honest in that regard due to marketing and ticket sales. Even Epstein said stuff like this ("every season is scared"...). But everyone still knows what is happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 If KW thinks that RR and his staff are doing an excellent job teaching the fundamentals then obviously the message isn't getting through to the guys on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 My biggest takeaway from that article is the front office realizes that sometimes a kid needs to go back down to AAA to complete their development. That’s not admitting defeat, it’s acknowledging that certain players are better off trying make adjustments in a low pressure environment. Hopefully Moncada can overcome his recent struggles, but if push comes to shove, a short stint in AAA wouldn’t be the end of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: If KW thinks that RR and his staff are doing an excellent job teaching the fundamentals then obviously the message isn't getting through to the guys on the field. There's only so much a coaching staff can do. If these guys are at the MLB level and don't know the fundamentals by now, they probably just aren't very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 That was a good article of KW saying all the right things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, bmags said: That was a good article of KW saying all the right things. He's a housecat now. Now that he's got the Lifetime JR Achievement Award sitting on his desk in the VP wing Sox HQ he can just kick his feet back up and do a puff interview once and awhile in between scouting missions and personal notes to JR. I wonder what his day to day looks like. Probably a pretty nice gig he's got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footlongcomiskeydog Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) Hey KW and Hahn, White Sox Nation has been patient for quite some time. If my math checks out, it has almost been a decade since this team has been in the postseason. During that time we have seen you waste high draft picks consistently, have one of your international scouts get into a nasty scandal, hire a beloved former player who never had the chops to be manager, sign a bunch of washed up FA busts, and start a mini-rebuild only to abruptly change course. Let's not forget about the Laroche daycare saga and the Chris Sale tailor gone wild incident. You guys drove this franchise into a ditch. It is a shame that JR didn't hire someone else to pull the franchise out of the hole. The early returns on your big blockbuster trades aren't looking so hot and the injury bug has reared its ugly head on many top prospects. Now we are hearing that maybe 2020 is a bit too optimistic and that fans should be looking further out. You guys are already kicking the rebuild can down the road it appears. That is quite a shame. Some fans may have the patience to sit through 4 or 5 years of garbage baseball. However, most will probably not and will turn their attention elsewhere. Let's supplement the young core of prospects that you believe so much in with a superstar or two. The FA class will be very ripe the next two years. Make it happen guys as Sox fans are tired of the excuses. Edited July 5, 2018 by [email protected] 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: He's a housecat now. Now that he's got the Lifetime JR Achievement Award sitting on his desk in the VP wing Sox HQ he can just kick his feet back up and do a puff interview once and awhile in between scouting missions and personal notes to JR. I wonder what his day to day looks like. Probably a pretty nice gig he's got. KW is criticized for when he speaks out of line and undercuts his GM or manager, as well as for when he supports them and underscores the direction the team is going in, got it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 50 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: There's only so much a coaching staff can do. If these guys are at the MLB level and don't know the fundamentals by now, they probably just aren't very good. Then that reflects to a certain extent on the front office doesn't it? I mean this has been going on since the last few years of Ozzie's reign. (i.e. being "baseball-stupid.") Absolutely the players deserve a big share of the blame for this but the organization apparently isn't teaching it very well either since some of these guys the last eight years or so came up through the system. Plus the manager does have one hammer in all this, playing time. If a guy consistently keeps screwing up simple things, like run down's or throwing to the wrong base from the outfield, he can always sit them. Plus a manager can order additional practice before games (which used to be a daily occurrence back in the day) I know Ventura actually did this a few times. It was quickly reported on by the media. The Sox seemed to play better fundamentally for a time if I remember right. Then Ventura stopped doing it for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 59 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: There's only so much a coaching staff can do. If these guys are at the MLB level and don't know the fundamentals by now, they probably just aren't very good. You can have the greatest coaching staff in the world, but having a team full of young players will make anyone look bad. We know the message they are getting, even if it isn't being carried out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Then that reflects to a certain extent on the front office doesn't it? I mean this has been going on since the last few years of Ozzie's reign. (i.e. being "baseball-stupid.") Absolutely the players deserve a big share of the blame for this but the organization apparently isn't teaching it very well either since some of these guys the last eight years or so came up through the system. Plus the manager does have one hammer in all this, playing time. If a guy consistently keeps screwing up simple things, like run down's or throwing to the wrong base from the outfield, he can always sit them. Plus a manager can order additional practice before games (which used to be a daily occurrence back in the day) I know Ventura actually did this a few times. It was quickly reported on by the media. The Sox seemed to play better fundamentally for a time if I remember right. Then Ventura stopped doing it for some reason. Have you been paying attention? There have been multiple stories about late night sessions and additional focus on specific items with specific players in the news this year. Just the other day there was an article about coaches working with Moncada on things, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) It's reassuring that he's sticking with the rebuild but he didn't really explain why he needs more than the 3 years that the Astros, Cubs, Braves and Phillies needed. He wasn't asked either, unfortunately. Edited July 5, 2018 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 41 minutes ago, [email protected] said: Hey KW and Hahn, White Sox Nation has been patient for quite some time. If my math checks out, it has almost been a decade since this team has been in the postseason. During that time we have seen you waste high draft picks consistently, have one of your international scouts get into a nasty scandal, hire a beloved former player who never had the chops to be manager, sign a bunch of washed up FA busts, and start a mini-rebuild only to abruptly change course. Let's not forget about the Laroche daycare saga and the Chris Sale tailor gone wild incident. You guys drove this franchise into a ditch. It is a shame that JR didn't hire someone else to pull the franchise out of the hole. The early returns on your big blockbuster trades aren't looking so hot and the injury bug has reared its ugly head on many top prospects. Now we are hearing that maybe 2020 is a bit too optimistic and that fans should be looking further out. You guys are already kicking the rebuild can down the road it appears. That is quite a shame. Some fans may have the patience to sit through 4 or 5 years of garbage baseball. However, most will probably not and will turn their attention elsewhere. Let's supplement the young core of prospects that you believe so much in with a superstar or two. The FA class will be very ripe the next two years. Make it happen guys as Sox fans are tired of the excuses. Excellent post and may I add that I trust KW and Hahn about as far as I can throw them in seeing a successful rebuild to where the Sox are yearly contenders for many years. The franchise needed entirely new blood in the Front Office much like the Cubs did when they brought in Theo. I'm 72 and probably don't have many rebuilds left on the horizon so I hoping the current one works but I'm not holding my breath 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, GreenSox said: It's reassuring that he's sticking with the rebuild but he didn't really explain why he needs more than the 3 years that the Astros, Cubs, Braves and Phillies needed. He wasn't asked either, unfortunately. The Phillies and Braves haven't won anything yet. The Astros and Cubs also needed more than 3 years to win something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 I think that "may not be 2020 or even 2021" was editorializing but main point may be this fa period sox may not be that active. Could be like Braves of last year, who did some signings to soften the blow but didn't compromise the rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, bmags said: I think that "may not be 2020 or even 2021" was editorializing but main point may be this fa period sox may not be that active. Could be like Braves of last year, who did some signings to soften the blow but didn't compromise the rebuild. If the White Sox are not involved in this year's FA market, heavily, then the people who have said that the ownership group are way too cheap...will finally be right. Last year we could make the excuse, correctly, that they still had bad contracts on the books (Cabreroid, Frazier, Robertson, Shields). This year, some of the money they saved went to Robert's huge bonus, and they've still got a payroll of $86 million. They've only got $50 million committed next year counting Abreu and Garcia, and there's no $50 million international signee excuse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 22 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The Phillies and Braves haven't won anything yet. The Astros and Cubs also needed more than 3 years to win something. Then let me be more precise on the question. Why does this FO need and deserve more than 3 years to rebuild this organization into a winning team, when the Astros, Cubs, Phillies and Braves needed only 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: If the White Sox are not involved in this year's FA market, heavily, then the people who have said that the ownership group are way too cheap...will finally be right. Last year we could make the excuse, correctly, that they still had bad contracts on the books (Cabreroid, Frazier, Robertson, Shields). This year, some of the money they saved went to Robert's huge bonus, and they've still got a payroll of $86 million. They've only got $50 million committed next year counting Abreu and Garcia, and there's no $50 million international signee excuse. It's not about spending money for the sake of spending money, though -- it's about being willing to dip in when the market gives you an opportunity. Under normal circumstances, we SHOULDN'T expect the White Sox to dip heavily into free agency this normal year, but the exceptional youth and talent of the top of this year's class means that they need to be willing to take the additional risk that comes with moving sooner than is ideal in order to have access to talent that won't be available later. I agree with you, but I want our posters to understand the "why" of it, because that will inform our reactions this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, GreenSox said: Then let me be more precise on the question. Why does this FO need and deserve more than 3 years to rebuild this organization into a winning team, when the Astros, Cubs, Phillies and Braves needed only 3. The Astros were below .500 for every season between 2009 and 2014, including 3 straight seasons for losing more than 100 games. The Cubs were below .500 for every season between 2010 and 2014, including 3 straight seasons of 90 or more losses. The Braves spent 4 seasons under .500, including 3 straight years of 90 or more losses. The Phillies were below .500 for every season between 2013 and 2017, with at least 89 losses in all of them, but 90 or more losses for three straight years. Your premise is wrong. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Looking at the free agent class that was supposed to be world class, you look at it now, if Harper or Machado isn't realistic, there are a few relievers, who you supposedly aren't supposed to spend a lot of money, and a suddenly huge question mark in Josh Donaldson, and the rest is pretty much a bunch of crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Just now, Dick Allen said: Looking at the free agent class that was supposed to be world class, you look at it now, if Harper or Machado isn't realistic, there are a few relievers, who you supposedly aren't supposed to spend a lot of money, and a suddenly huge question mark in Josh Donaldson, and the rest is pretty much a bunch of crap. With a Kershaw opt-out looking less likely (and for good reason), this is a good point. And it actually fits in with what I said. Hypothetically, if Harper and Machado both sign insane 12-year, $400m+ contracts with other teams, and the Sox then don't make any significant signings, would you call them cheap? To me, unless you think they were cheap not to be the best offer for Harper/Machado, I think the answer is "no." Those are the only guys that were worth going outside the lines for, because the current team is not at the stage where you even know which holes you need free agency to fill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The Astros were below .500 for every season between 2009 and 2014, including 3 straight seasons for losing more than 100 games. The Cubs were below .500 for every season between 2010 and 2014, including 3 straight seasons of 90 or more losses. The Braves spent 4 seasons under .500, including 3 straight years of 90 or more losses. The Phillies were below .500 for every season between 2013 and 2017, with at least 89 losses in all of them, but 90 or more losses for three straight years. Your premise is wrong. And the White Sox are in their 6th straight below .500 season. I count the Cubs from when Theo was hired; the Astros from when Luhnow was hired; the Phillies from the season that they traded Cole Hamels (which is prior to when their current GM was hired). The Braves won in 2013, had an unexpected down year in 2014, and late in 2014 decided to rebuild: it took 3 years. So if my premise is wrong then the White Sox are in year 6 of the rebuild. Edited July 5, 2018 by GreenSox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.