KW on the state of the rebuild

[footlongcomiskeydog]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

One postseason appearance when 4 teams total made it. They were in the playoffs with the current format in 1990 and 1994 if no strike.

One postseason appearance and zero trips to the WS. Is that all we are hoping for with this rebuild? 

If the goal is to just make the postseason once and hope for a 2005 type playoff then the Sox should have kept Sale, Eaton, and Q. They could have signed Lowrie, Moustakas, Matt Adams, Sabathia, and Chacin for dirt cheap. 

[Dick Allen]

7 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

One postseason appearance and zero trips to the WS. Is that all we are hoping for with this rebuild? 

If the goal is to just make the postseason once and hope for a 2005 type playoff then the Sox should have kept Sale, Eaton, and Q. They could have signed Lowrie, Moustakas, Matt Adams, Sabathia, and Chacin for dirt cheap. 

Obviously it's not all you hope for, but you have to be realistic. If being bad for 5 years is a guarantee for years upon years of greatness, everyone would do it, and not every team can be successful at the same time. It's a zero sum game. The White Sox will always have the Yankees and the Red Sox throwing big money at their problems. If winning the WS consistently was fairly simple, someone would actually do it. They should be able to dominate their division like Cleveland, Minnesota and Detroit have all done at various points. Even KC had a decent stretch, considering the advantages they have over their division opponents, but then you get to the playoffs and who knows how that will go. 

 

Besides, if they had made the playoffs those other years if it was formatted as it is now, you can't say they wouldn't have won. 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Dick Allen

[35thstreetswarm]

1 hour ago, [email protected] said:

Sure the Astros were built mainly from the farm, but it is delusional to think that the Sox can replicate that. You are assuming then that the Sox FO, scouting, and development people are as good as Houston's. The last 7 years or so provide evidence that that is simply not the case. Let me know when the Sox develop four positional players as good as Altuve, Correa, Springer, and Bregman. 

You keep saying this, but I think you know that the plan IS for the Sox's highly-touted farm system to turn out a core of elite talent comparable to Houston's.  If all goes according to plan, Eloy, Moncada, Robert, Madrigal, etc. will be comparable to the young cores of Houston and other successful rebuilds.  That's the whole idea.

Now, nobody yet knows for sure if that will happen since they are still just touted prospects and not established MLB stars (just like Altuve, Correa, Springer, and Bregman a few years ago).  You don't have to believe it.  Maybe the baseball world was wrong about Moncada and Eloy.  But the Sox have built a top farm system with projected star power, which is all you can really ask at this stage of a rebuild .  Your issue really seems to be with the talent the rebuild has assembled (and the projections for that talent), not the rebuild process.  And if you just think that the talent in the Sox system is no good, we're pretty much sunk and free agent signings aren't going to save us.

[fathom]

5 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If you're bringing in two veteran starters, then you're most certainly blocking some kids.  Who do you in envision in the rotation next year?  

Rodon, Lopez, Kopech

[Jake]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

Rodon, Lopez, Kopech

While it very well may be completely undeserved, I'd be surprised if Giolito doesn't at least get a handful of turns through the rotation next season.

[BlackSox13]

9 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

At basically every position, the White Sox either already have someone who needed playing time to see if they were going to be anything useful, or will soon need playing time. Injuries have hit a few of those spots but hopefully you'll grant that you can't predict which position they will have them at.

DH: Davidson/Delmonico
3b: Sanchez, Saladino (already traded)
SS: Anderson
2b: Moncada
1b: Abreu
CF: Tilson/Cordell/Engel/Leury
RF: Avisail Garcia
LF: Jiminez, Delmonico
SP: Giolito, Lopez, Fulmer, Kopech, Rodon, Shields already under contract.

They didn't really have anyone who was worth the time at Catcher and I even thought they'd be stupid enough to call Collins up from single-A to fill the role, but then they signed Castillo. Unfortunately there was a steroid thing there, but they did that at catcher.

In the bullpen they had room to acquire flippable guys. Hey look Soria!

With Rodon out they had room to acquire a flippable guy in the rotation too. Hey look, Miguel Gonzalez and Hector Santiago!

At the positions where they had room for those guys, where they had ample playing time, they did acquire guys who could be flipped. Elsewhere though, they had to give guys playing time to see if they could turn into anything or filter themselves out. Some of those guys (Cordell, Engel, Delmonico) are doing exactly that and filtering themselves out, where I'm more than happy to block them next year.

Thank you Balta. I was about to post a response very similar to this.

[Dominikk85]

4 hours ago, [email protected] said:

One postseason appearance and zero trips to the WS. Is that all we are hoping for with this rebuild? 

If the goal is to just make the postseason once and hope for a 2005 type playoff then the Sox should have kept Sale, Eaton, and Q. They could have signed Lowrie, Moustakas, Matt Adams, Sabathia, and Chacin for dirt cheap. 

This is definitely not the expectation. The goal should be to compete for 5-6 years and make the postseason at least 3-4 times during that window. Hopefully it culminates with a WS appearance but you can't plan that.

The ideal outcome of the rebuild would be what the nats did 2012-17 but with a few more playoff series wins:).

[ptatc]

17 hours ago, Fan O'Faust said:

Not factual on any account, and as typical of you, nothing more than your usual splattering of lipstick on this pig of an ownership our beleaguered fan base has been strangled with these nearly past four decades.  

First off, nothing “hateful” coming from me, just facts fully tethered in results.  Fourth longest playoff drought in all of baseball, no playoff appearance in a decade now and none seemingly on the horizon - no die-hard White Sox fan is happy about this sad state of affairs.  

As for the “bottom line” and what “they make”, fullest of shame on you for trying to divert attention away from the “sweetheart lease deal” this owner negotiated with the State in the most obscene of ways back in the late ‘80s that guaranteed ownership maximum profits no matter if 964 people are in the stands or 30,000 - ALL AT THE EXPENSE OF ILLINOIS TAXPAYER REVENUES.  

That’s the “bottom line”, buddy, and continued shame on you for defending the disgusting practice of this failed owner.   

JR should be commended for the deal he negotiated. It's a great business deal. If you're mad at anyone, be mad at the stupid politicians who agreed to it.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

11 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Obviously it's not all you hope for, but you have to be realistic. If being bad for 5 years is a guarantee for years upon years of greatness, everyone would do it, and not every team can be successful at the same time. It's a zero sum game. The White Sox will always have the Yankees and the Red Sox throwing big money at their problems. If winning the WS consistently was fairly simple, someone would actually do it. They should be able to dominate their division like Cleveland, Minnesota and Detroit have all done at various points. Even KC had a decent stretch, considering the advantages they have over their division opponents, but then you get to the playoffs and who knows how that will go. 

 

Besides, if they had made the playoffs those other years if it was formatted as it is now, you can't say they wouldn't have won. 

Have you looked around baseball lately? The odds on Cleveland winning the Central Division are -10000 on Fourth of July weekend! They are the only team in the Central that is even attempting to compete this year. Cincy, Miami, Texas, Tampa, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and San Diego are all tanking as well.  A third of the league is trying to be bad for multiple seasons in an attempt to mimic the Cubs and Astros.  

The Giants won 3 titles in 6 years. That is pretty consistent in my humble opinion. 

 

[greg775]

1 hour ago, [email protected] said:

Have you looked around baseball lately? The odds on Cleveland winning the Central Division are -10000 on Fourth of July weekend! They are the only team in the Central that is even attempting to compete this year. Cincy, Miami, Texas, Tampa, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and San Diego are all tanking as well.  A third of the league is trying to be bad for multiple seasons in an attempt to mimic the Cubs and Astros.  

The Giants won 3 titles in 6 years. That is pretty consistent in my humble opinion. 

 

Quite frankly this tanking stuff is ruining sports. The only reason we couldn't win with Sale and Co. is the front office was so inept at bringing in real talent. You know what? We had a playoff workhorse pitcher in Sale. We had closers in the past. All we needed was some better set up guys. It's really ridiculous to think tanking for draft picks and making 2-3 trades will win us divisions and WS. The Sox have so much work to do still it's ridiculous. Eloy better be a fricking phenom. And the Sox have to sign so many relievers and maybe 1-2 veteran starters to go with hopefully 3 guys who pan out from the rebuild trades. If I were commissioner I'd be kicking some owner ass in meetings if I suspected them of tanking. It's sickening really. Fans wanting teams to lose and to trade any decent player they have is just wrong. I hate to break it to the tank people but if you trade Avi and Abreu you are really setting back this rebuild cause the White Sox are not going to win it all without some veterans. Jerry R. should be ashamed of what is going on in his sport.

Edited July 7, 2018 by greg775

[Dick Allen]

6 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Have you looked around baseball lately? The odds on Cleveland winning the Central Division are -10000 on Fourth of July weekend! They are the only team in the Central that is even attempting to compete this year. Cincy, Miami, Texas, Tampa, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and San Diego are all tanking as well.  A third of the league is trying to be bad for multiple seasons in an attempt to mimic the Cubs and Astros.  

The Giants won 3 titles in 6 years. That is pretty consistent in my humble opinion. 

 

1 team out of 30.

the fact is you cannot have 30 great teams. There isn’t enough talent. Some of these rebuilds will go on for decades. Sox we just have to hope one of them isn’t the White Sox. Here’s a link to the 2014 farm systems. The Twins had 8 top 100 guys. Getting really bad is no guarantee of getting really good. Just go down the list and read about breakout prospects, prospects you have to see... 4 years later you haven’t heard of most of them.

https://www.baseballprospectus.com/prospects/article/22906/prospects-will-break-your-heart-2014-organizational-rankings/

Edited July 7, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Jake]

7 hours ago, greg775 said:

Quite frankly this tanking stuff is ruining sports. The only reason we couldn't win with Sale and Co. is the front office was so inept at bringing in real talent. You know what? We had a playoff workhorse pitcher in Sale. We had closers in the past. All we needed was some better set up guys. It's really ridiculous to think tanking for draft picks and making 2-3 trades will win us divisions and WS. The Sox have so much work to do still it's ridiculous. Eloy better be a fricking phenom. And the Sox have to sign so many relievers and maybe 1-2 veteran starters to go with hopefully 3 guys who pan out from the rebuild trades. If I were commissioner I'd be kicking some owner ass in meetings if I suspected them of tanking. It's sickening really. Fans wanting teams to lose and to trade any decent player they have is just wrong. I hate to break it to the tank people but if you trade Avi and Abreu you are really setting back this rebuild cause the White Sox are not going to win it all without some veterans. Jerry R. should be ashamed of what is going on in his sport.

All I know is that his famed poor September pitching played a role in the Sox blowing their best chance to make the playoffs in his time here (2012).

[FloydBannister1983]

57 minutes ago, Jake said:

All I know is that his famed poor September pitching played a role in the Sox blowing their best chance to make the playoffs in his time here (2012).

Huh.  The numbers don't show that.  Sale was 3-3 that September with an ERA less than the team average.  The rest of the team was 10-15 in games Sale didn't pitch.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

20 hours ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

You keep saying this, but I think you know that the plan IS for the Sox's highly-touted farm system to turn out a core of elite talent comparable to Houston's.  If all goes according to plan, Eloy, Moncada, Robert, Madrigal, etc. will be comparable to the young cores of Houston and other successful rebuilds.  That's the whole idea.

Now, nobody yet knows for sure if that will happen since they are still just touted prospects and not established MLB stars (just like Altuve, Correa, Springer, and Bregman a few years ago).  You don't have to believe it.  Maybe the baseball world was wrong about Moncada and Eloy.  But the Sox have built a top farm system with projected star power, which is all you can really ask at this stage of a rebuild .  Your issue really seems to be with the talent the rebuild has assembled (and the projections for that talent), not the rebuild process.  And if you just think that the talent in the Sox system is no good, we're pretty much sunk and free agent signings aren't going to save us.

I clearly understand what the Sox are trying to do. It is delusional to think that all is going to go according to plan, however. In fact, we are now 1.5 years into the rebuild and things are already going off track a bit. Luis Robert is doing his best Charlie Tilson impersonation and Moncada is striking out 35% of the time. 

The Sox are going to need to pony up for a couple big ticket FAs in order for this rebuild to succeed. Let's hope they can get it done.

[Jake]

1 hour ago, Juschill said:

Huh.  The numbers don't show that.  Sale was 3-3 that September with an ERA less than the team average.  The rest of the team was 10-15 in games Sale didn't pitch.

I didn't mean to imply that he turned into Lucas Giolito, but in that year he was not himself in September. He had a 4.11 ERA and .790 OPS against, we lost 3 of his 6 starts, including a loss to Detroit and a shellacking as we made our last gasp at the end of September.

For his career, this playoff workhorse has a 3.78 September ERA (overall career ERA of 2.93) with a surprisingly high HR rate. 

He also owns an 8.38 ERA in his one postseason.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 7/6/2018 at 5:17 AM, Balta1701 said:

At basically every position, the White Sox either already have someone who needed playing time to see if they were going to be anything useful, or will soon need playing time. Injuries have hit a few of those spots but hopefully you'll grant that you can't predict which position they will have them at.

DH: Davidson/Delmonico
3b: Sanchez, Saladino (already traded)
SS: Anderson
2b: Moncada
1b: Abreu
CF: Tilson/Cordell/Engel/Leury
RF: Avisail Garcia
LF: Jiminez, Delmonico
SP: Giolito, Lopez, Fulmer, Kopech, Rodon, Shields already under contract.

They didn't really have anyone who was worth the time at Catcher and I even thought they'd be stupid enough to call Collins up from single-A to fill the role, but then they signed Castillo. Unfortunately there was a steroid thing there, but they did that at catcher.

In the bullpen they had room to acquire flippable guys. Hey look Soria!

With Rodon out they had room to acquire a flippable guy in the rotation too. Hey look, Miguel Gonzalez and Hector Santiago!

At the positions where they had room for those guys, where they had ample playing time, they did acquire guys who could be flipped. Elsewhere though, they had to give guys playing time to see if they could turn into anything or filter themselves out. Some of those guys (Cordell, Engel, Delmonico) are doing exactly that and filtering themselves out, where I'm more than happy to block them next year.

Balta you re a great poster who analyzes many things accurately but sometimes it seems like you are playing both sides of the fence and expect things to work out in perfect fashion if they stick to some magic script of rebuilding.

You expect the Sox to spend money this off season right ? You have said that before and you want heads to roll if they don't , correct ? I'm just asking why do you insist that all the guys you mentioned in your list all needed playing time ? Is Tilson, Delmonico, Davidson, Cordell, Leury, Engel, Sanchez all so highly thought of that losing any one or more of them would have been so terrible. Sure you want to see them develop but realistically  they are all nothing special and thats where tough decisions have to be made. If one comes back to be a good player some day so be it. That also is going to be a part of the rebuild process.

Sometimes you just have to go off script when opportunities present themselves such as this past off season. I think you have to add good players when you can either to flip or keep. You want some good free agent(s) next year, Some want to wait longer . At what point when these guys refuse your offers do to start to get really worried ? The youth will only carry you so far and as of now there are tons of holes filled with guys who we are giving chances to that just aren't producing or developing.

Outside of Jimenez and Kopech and a few relievers do you actually expect to be good enough to play on a great team ? Most of the talent on the farm is still at least a year away . Then there will be the growing pains .It just feels as if the timeline  for success keeps getting pushed another year away.

This past season I wanted Moustaskas and JD Martinez . I think i made decent choices depending on what the Royals get for him if traded at the deadline to see if its considered better than the draft pick we would have lost for him.

I'm not saying I'm right and you are wrong but everyone has in there heads rebuilds go step by step according to some grand plan when I think improvisation once in a while isn't so bad.

[greg775]

7 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

1 team out of 30.

the fact is you cannot have 30 great teams. There isn’t enough talent. Some of these rebuilds will go on for decades. Sox we just have to hope one of them isn’t the White Sox. Here’s a link to the 2014 farm systems. The Twins had 8 top 100 guys. Getting really bad is no guarantee of getting really good. Just go down the list and read about breakout prospects, prospects you have to see... 4 years later you haven’t heard of most of them.

https://www.baseballprospectus.com/prospects/article/22906/prospects-will-break-your-heart-2014-organizational-rankings/

Your post should scare everybody. Although even though it might take decades, the rebuild still could be popular. Never underestimate the power of unknown players. "Wait til next year" has been popular with fans forever as long as there are players being touted as future saviors.

[FloydBannister1983]

2 hours ago, Jake said:

I didn't mean to imply that he turned into Lucas Giolito, but in that year he was not himself in September. He had a 4.11 ERA and .790 OPS against, we lost 3 of his 6 starts, including a loss to Detroit and a shellacking as we made our last gasp at the end of September.

For his career, this playoff workhorse has a 3.78 September ERA (overall career ERA of 2.93) with a surprisingly high HR rate. 

He also owns an 8.38 ERA in his one postseason.

Yes.  I well remember them getting shutout 3-0 to lowly Kansas City that year and losing a close game to Detroit when they forgot how to hit.

Reminds me of Clayton Kershaw in the postseason.

 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Balta you re a great poster who analyzes many things accurately but sometimes it seems like you are playing both sides of the fence and expect things to work out in perfect fashion if they stick to some magic script of rebuilding.

You expect the Sox to spend money this off season right ? You have said that before and you want heads to roll if they don't , correct ? I'm just asking why do you insist that all the guys you mentioned in your list all needed playing time ? Is Tilson, Delmonico, Davidson, Cordell, Leury, Engel, Sanchez all so highly thought of that losing any one or more of them would have been so terrible. Sure you want to see them develop but realistically  they are all nothing special and thats where tough decisions have to be made. If one comes back to be a good player some day so be it. That also is going to be a part of the rebuild process.

Sometimes you just have to go off script when opportunities present themselves such as this past off season. I think you have to add good players when you can either to flip or keep. You want some good free agent(s) next year, Some want to wait longer . At what point when these guys refuse your offers do to start to get really worried ? The youth will only carry you so far and as of now there are tons of holes filled with guys who we are giving chances to that just aren't producing or developing.

Outside of Jimenez and Kopech and a few relievers do you actually expect to be good enough to play on a great team ? Most of the talent on the farm is still at least a year away . Then there will be the growing pains .It just feels as if the timeline  for success keeps getting pushed another year away.

This past season I wanted Moustaskas and JD Martinez . I think i made decent choices depending on what the Royals get for him if traded at the deadline to see if its considered better than the draft pick we would have lost for him.

I'm not saying I'm right and you are wrong but everyone has in there heads rebuilds go step by step according to some grand plan when I think improvisation once in a while isn't so bad.

Moustakas and JD Martinez would have both been terrible wastes of money for the 2018 White Sox. This team is not going anywhere, we'd have spent large amounts of money on them for a team that wasn't going anywhere, and now we'd be sitting here paying a DH $20 million a year on a team that isn't going anywhere. And again, Yolmer has been worth 1 WAR and Moustakas 1.6 WAR. That was a plainly wrong move for the White Sox to think about last offseason and it would be a plainly wrong move this offseason when the guy is a year older.

This offseason, I'm totally ok with going out and targeting a CF, ours just aren't cutting it. We've got Sanchez into at the worst a strong backup IF at this point, ditto Leury. LF and RF are full, 2b and SS are full. 3b is plenty open if we want to go for the big money guy, but that only makes sense if we get a guy who will be good in 3-4 years. We could use some catching help right now but that's because of a steroid suspension. The other place worth upgrading is the bullpen, and frankly I'd still put that first.

We really don't need DH help right now, we really don't need corner OFs, so JD Martinez would have been a terrible waste of $20 million for this roster. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

Moustakas and JD Martinez would have both been terrible wastes of money for the 2018 White Sox. This team is not going anywhere, we'd have spent large amounts of money on them for a team that wasn't going anywhere, and now we'd be sitting here paying a DH $20 million a year on a team that isn't going anywhere. And again, Yolmer has been worth 1 WAR and Moustakas 1.6 WAR. That was a plainly wrong move for the White Sox to think about last offseason and it would be a plainly wrong move this offseason when the guy is a year older.

This offseason, I'm totally ok with going out and targeting a CF, ours just aren't cutting it. We've got Sanchez into at the worst a strong backup IF at this point, ditto Leury. LF and RF are full, 2b and SS are full. 3b is plenty open if we want to go for the big money guy, but that only makes sense if we get a guy who will be good in 3-4 years. We could use some catching help right now but that's because of a steroid suspension. The other place worth upgrading is the bullpen, and frankly I'd still put that first.

We really don't need DH help right now, we really don't need corner OFs, so JD Martinez would have been a terrible waste of $20 million for this roster. 

My whole point was just because you suck doesnt mean you cant have good players on the roster  You can't fill every hole at once. Look at the Sox now. Hitting , bad, defense , bad. starting pitching , bad, bullpen has actually been a bright spot but about to get bad unless some of the fill in do better.

How far away are most of your minor league players? 1-2 yrs or more . You wanted to be much better next year . How is that exactly going to happen ? Won't anyone they get still be a waste of money  on a bad team ? You talk about certain positions being full already ? Full of what ? A bunch of question marks . Not a single guy we can honestly call an All Star . We are so far away from winning the division its frightening and even father away from winning a World Series. We need a roster full of good players and we don't even have one. Just wave the magic wand and it'll all be fine in 2019 oops 2020 oops 2021 oops 2022.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

My whole point was just because you suck doesnt mean you cant have good players on the roster  You can't fill every hole at once. Look at the Sox now. Hitting , bad, defense , bad. starting pitching , bad, bullpen has actually been a bright spot but about to get bad unless some of the fill in do better.

How far away are most of your minor league players? 1-2 yrs or more . You wanted to be much better next year . How is that exactly going to happen ? Won't anyone they get still be a waste of money  on a bad team ? You talk about certain positions being full already ? Full of what ? A bunch of question marks . Not a single guy we can honestly call an All Star . We are so far away from winning the division its frightening and even father away from winning a World Series. We need a roster full of good players and we don't even have one. Just wave the magic wand and it'll all be fine in 2019 oops 2020 oops 2021 oops 2022.

This, FWIW, is also exactly what the Braves and Phillies would have written last year, which is the point. 

We now have the talent in our organization. We need to give it time to struggle, which we are doing literally right now, but we also have to plan that some of them will overcome those struggles, and we should be ready when they do.

If they don't, then we're not going anywhere regardless of whether or not we sign anyone, and that will be time #5 to fire Rick Hahn - this time based on failures of scouting and development in the players he acquired. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

This, FWIW, is also exactly what the Braves and Phillies would have written last year, which is the point. 

We now have the talent in our organization. We need to give it time to struggle, which we are doing literally right now, but we also have to plan that some of them will overcome those struggles, and we should be ready when they do.

If they don't, then we're not going anywhere regardless of whether or not we sign anyone, and that will be time #5 to fire Rick Hahn - this time based on failures of scouting and development in the players he acquired. 

I just don't consider signing guys who aren't in the contention window a waste of money. You do know guys can be traded right ? You need good players to get good players and when is a better time to spend when your payroll is low ? If we had Moose or JD how would they look as trade bait right about now ? Maybe later you'd like the Sox to trade guys who have the talent of a Jimenez or Cease or a Torres like the Cubs did ? The Sox need a ton of talent we will always be wasting some of the good young talents cheap years as we go.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I just don't consider signing guys who aren't in the contention window a waste of money. You do know guys can be traded right ? You need good players to get good players and when is a better time to spend when your payroll is low ? If we had Moose or JD how would they look as trade bait right about now ? Maybe later you'd like the Sox to trade guys who have the talent of a Jimenez or Cease or a Torres like the Cubs did ? The Sox need a ton of talent we will always be wasting some of the good young talents cheap years as we go.

If we had those guys how would they look as trade bait? We'd get scraps for Moustakas because teams aren't going to pay much for 1 WAR for August and September for 3b. Martinez - well the Red Sox could use him, but that's also why they bid for him. JD Martinez brought scraps literally last year when he was cheaper and nearing free agency. He'd be a salary dump at best, and no team out there is going to take on a $100 million contract at the deadline. So congrats on drafting 5th instead of 3rd next year, because that's what the $25 million you spent on those guys this year alone accomplished.

[pcq]

On 7/6/2018 at 12:41 AM, Fan O'Faust said:

Not factual on any account, and as typical of you, nothing more than your usual splattering of lipstick on this pig of an ownership our beleaguered fan base has been strangled with these nearly past four decades.  

First off, nothing “hateful” coming from me, just facts fully tethered in results.  Fourth longest playoff drought in all of baseball, no playoff appearance in a decade now and none seemingly on the horizon - no die-hard White Sox fan is happy about this sad state of affairs.  

As for the “bottom line” and what “they make”, fullest of shame on you for trying to divert attention away from the “sweetheart lease deal” this owner negotiated with the State in the most obscene of ways back in the late ‘80s that guaranteed ownership maximum profits no matter if 964 people are in the stands or 30,000 - ALL AT THE EXPENSE OF ILLINOIS TAXPAYER REVENUES.  

That’s the “bottom line”, buddy, and continued shame on you for defending the disgusting practice of this failed owner.   

I don't think the owner has been the problem or spending is the cure-all solution. Bad judgment or bad luck has been a problem. Throwing a quarter-billion or so at a top free agent could have many long-term consequences. The stadium is old news except that they rarely draw an average number of fans in a major market. 

[greg775]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Moustakas and JD Martinez would have both been terrible wastes of money for the 2018 White Sox. This team is not going anywhere, we'd have spent large amounts of money on them for a team that wasn't going anywhere, and now we'd be sitting here paying a DH $20 million a year on a team that isn't going anywhere. And again, Yolmer has been worth 1 WAR and Moustakas 1.6 WAR. That was a plainly wrong move for the White Sox to think about last offseason and it would be a plainly wrong move this offseason when the guy is a year older.

This offseason, I'm totally ok with going out and targeting a CF, ours just aren't cutting it. We've got Sanchez into at the worst a strong backup IF at this point, ditto Leury. LF and RF are full, 2b and SS are full. 3b is plenty open if we want to go for the big money guy, but that only makes sense if we get a guy who will be good in 3-4 years. We could use some catching help right now but that's because of a steroid suspension. The other place worth upgrading is the bullpen, and frankly I'd still put that first.

We really don't need DH help right now, we really don't need corner OFs, so JD Martinez would have been a terrible waste of $20 million for this roster. 

When and why did you reinvent yourself as a poster? You suddenly are MVP of the board after blah status.