KW on the state of the rebuild

[GreenSox]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The players in the Cubs system didn't just start with Theo.  Perfect example is that Altuve was drafted long before the rebuild started.

And Chris Sale was part of the Sox rebuild because he created Moncada et al.  
Altuve spent his first 3 years in Houston looking like Yolmer does now - I don't know if hit was luck or if Luhnow knew to keep him.  Whatever it was, Sox could use some of that.

[Sarava]

4 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

And Chris Sale was part of the Sox rebuild because he created Moncada et al.  
Altuve spent his first 3 years in Houston looking like Yolmer does now - I don't know if hit was luck or if Luhnow knew to keep him.  Whatever it was, Sox could use some of that.

And that's the big thing that kept getting said when the Sox started their rebuild. That no team has ever started a rebuild with the massive amount of assets to sell-off to kick-off their rebuild like the Sox did. And that it should lead to a shorter rebuild than other recent teams.

Now, I'm not blaming anyone for injuries which have ravaged most of our top prospects in recent months. That's just bad luck.

But I also think it's time to move on some things this coming winter. I think a bigger effort to sign potentially flippable assets could have been made this past winter. I don't know if their motive was to save money, keep roster spots clear for the yutes, or if they were planning on tanking for a top 5 pick again. Only Hahn, Kenny and JR know what their true intentions were.

But in any event, IMO it's time for Jerry to get the checkbook out this winter. If they have another winter of leaving gaping holes, going in to the season with an atrocious bullpen...they're going to start losing a lot of the fans that have supported the rebuild.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Sarava said:

And that's the big thing that kept getting said when the Sox started their rebuild. That no team has ever started a rebuild with the massive amount of assets to sell-off to kick-off their rebuild like the Sox did. And that it should lead to a shorter rebuild than other recent teams.

Now, I'm not blaming anyone for injuries which have ravaged most of our top prospects in recent months. That's just bad luck.

But I also think it's time to move on some things this coming winter. I think a bigger effort to sign potentially flippable assets could have been made this past winter. I don't know if their motive was to save money, keep roster spots clear for the yutes, or if they were planning on tanking for a top 5 pick again. Only Hahn, Kenny and JR know what their true intentions were.

But in any event, IMO it's time for Jerry to get the checkbook out this winter. If they have another winter of leaving gaping holes, going in to the season with an atrocious bullpen...they're going to start losing a lot of the fans that have supported the rebuild.

The bullpen has been league average or better by every measure.  They are currently 9th in MLB in team war from relievers.

[Eminor3rd]

1 hour ago, Buehrlesque said:

This is starting to become conventional wisdom, but I don't think it's that iron-clad. There's this perception out there that when you are rebuilding, you shouldn't sign any FA. If there's a good player available and you like him and his price is fair, get him. It's part of building your team. There are factors to consider (losing a draft pick to sign a player with a QO, signing someone over 35, overlapping someone on the major league roster), but there's also a risk of being too cute and passing on a fair deal for a good player to be left with worse options the following year. Harper and Machado are pipedreams, and that's fine. But guys like Pollock, Corbin, Richards, Donaldson and Keuchel could all make varying degrees of sense for the Sox in the right situation. Unless the Sox are so zeroed in on a guy like Arenado, Rendon or Goldschmidt in the following year's class, I hop the Sox walk away with something this winter. (That said, if the price tag on any of those guys exceeds what value you think they'd bring, then it's an easy pass.)

Yeah, I agree with that.

[TaylorStSox]

3 hours ago, GreenSox said:

It's reassuring that he's sticking with the rebuild but he didn't really explain why he needs more than the 3 years that the Astros, Cubs, Braves and Phillies needed.  He wasn't asked either, unfortunately.

3 years? ?

[harkness99]

Didn't think he said much of anything.. just the usual blah blah that you hear.

[Thad Bosley]

45 minutes ago, Sarava said:

And that's the big thing that kept getting said when the Sox started their rebuild. That no team has ever started a rebuild with the massive amount of assets to sell-off to kick-off their rebuild like the Sox did. And that it should lead to a shorter rebuild than other recent teams.

Now, I'm not blaming anyone for injuries which have ravaged most of our top prospects in recent months. That's just bad luck.

But I also think it's time to move on some things this coming winter. I think a bigger effort to sign potentially flippable assets could have been made this past winter. I don't know if their motive was to save money, keep roster spots clear for the yutes, or if they were planning on tanking for a top 5 pick again. Only Hahn, Kenny and JR know what their true intentions were.

But in any event, IMO it's time for Jerry to get the checkbook out this winter. If they have another winter of leaving gaping holes, going in to the season with an atrocious bullpen...they're going to start losing a lot of the fans that have supported the rebuild.

Lol - ya think?  The team is only in the fourth (and soon to be third, given Seattle's fortunes this season) longest playoff drought in all of baseball as we speak, and has only played in four playoff games in total since walking off the field in Houston in October 2005.  Who knew then that the next 13 seasons (and perhaps longer) would only feature one trip to the postseason for our Sox, comprising only four games and just one win. 

So yes, it's time.  It's time to make some moves to begin to restore relevance to this team.  And if that means the owner parting ways with more of his taxpayer-subsidized profits than he historically ever has, so be it.  

[greg775]

2 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

Wait until 2020, sign Arenado and Sale.

Of course wait. Always wait. Wait til next year. And next year ...

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Fan O'Faust said:

Lol - ya think?  The team is only in the fourth (and soon to be third, given Seattle's fortunes this season) longest playoff drought in all of baseball as we speak, and has only played in four playoff games in total since walking off the field in Houston in October 2005.  Who knew then that the next 13 seasons (and perhaps longer) would only feature one trip to the postseason for our Sox, comprising only four games and just one win. 

So yes, it's time.  It's time to make some moves to begin to restore relevance to this team.  And if that means the owner parting ways with more of his taxpayer-subsidized profits than he historically ever has, so be it.  

I don't know that I have ever seen someone more jealous of someone else's success.

[Dam8610]

13 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Of course wait. Always wait. Wait til next year. And next year ...

I advocated for spending a boatload of the owners' money on veteran players to help the team compete, and still you're unhappy it. Why? Isn't that what you want?

[Chicago White Sox]

Realistically, where would people want to see additions.  Below is a way too early forecast of the 2019 roster with no outside additions.

Lineup:  

• 1B: Abreu
• 2B: Moncada
• SS: Anderson
• 3B: Sanchez
• LF: Jimenez
• CF: L. Garcia / Cordell
• RF: A. Garcia
• DH: Davidson / Palka
• ? Castillo / Zavala

If you can add a superstar, by all means add one wherever, but CF is probably the only spot that could desperately use a short-term upgrade.  Obviously that could change if guys like Abreu, Avi, or Yolmer are moved.

Rotation:

• #1: Rodon
• #2: Lopez
• #3: Kopech
• #4: Giolito
• #5: Stephens

I personally see no need to add a high-priced starter just yet.  Give these guys half a season and then have Dunning (if healthy) replace the weakest guy.  I’d reevaluate prior to the 2020 season.

Bullpen:

• CL: Jones
• SU: Burdi
• SU: Fry
• MR: Hamilton
• MR: Bummer
• MR: Vieira
• LR: Covey

I think adding one proven, quality arm and perhaps a depth piece makes a lot of sense.  Otherwise, I’d like to give these arms a chance to develop.

So ultimately my view of free agency is to plug a couple obvious holes with short-term stop-gaps, but otherwise go big or go home.  While I think we should try to put a respectable product on the field, 2019 should still be a development focused year.  No need to overpay for B & C free agents to get a few more wins if there a decent looking young player worthy of playing time.

[bmags]

I don’t mind adding market rate SP at all.  Where I think sox can have good cost savings is if they can make an organic bullpen.

[fathom]

Said it about a month ago, but there is no doubt Hahn and company thought they would be more competitive this year. He was on every radio station this offseason saying how Sox would be quiet but the next offseason (after this season) would be exciting. 

Edited July 5, 2018 by fathom

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don’t mind adding market rate SP at all.  Where I think sox can have good cost savings is if they can make an organic bullpen.

I just don’t see the need to add one prior to the 2020 season or whenever we are finally ready to go for it.  I really think next year’s rotation should be all kids except Rodon.

[Jose Abreu]

8 minutes ago, fathom said:

Said it about a month ago, but there is no doubt Hahn and company thought they would be more competitive this year. He was on every radio station this offseason saying how Sox would be quiet but the next offseason (after this season) would be exciting. 

I think he thinks we're getting Machado. 

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I think he thinks we're getting Machado. 

If he truly wants to stick at SS, then no thanks. 

[Jose Abreu]

5 minutes ago, fathom said:

If he truly wants to stick at SS, then no thanks. 

Agreed. I still believe he's just playing there to increase potential value. 

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Agreed. I still believe he's just playing there to increase potential value. 

100% this.  He’ll go where the money’s at first & foremost.

[WBWSF]

33 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Realistically, where would people want to see additions.  Below is a way too early forecast of the 2019 roster with no outside additions.

Lineup:  

• 1B: Abreu
• 2B: Moncada
• SS: Anderson
• 3B: Sanchez
• LF: Jimenez
• CF: L. Garcia / Cordell
• RF: A. Garcia
• DH: Davidson / Palka
• ? Castillo / Zavala

If you can add a superstar, by all means add one wherever, but CF is probably the only spot that could desperately use a short-term upgrade.  Obviously that could change if guys like Abreu, Avi, or Yolmer are moved.

Rotation:

• #1: Rodon
• #2: Lopez
• #3: Kopech
• #4: Giolito
• #5: Stephens

I personally see no need to add a high-priced starter just yet.  Give these guys half a season and then have Dunning (if healthy) replace the weakest guy.  I’d reevaluate prior to the 2020 season.

Bullpen:

• CL: Jones
• SU: Burdi
• SU: Fry
• MR: Hamilton
• MR: Bummer
• MR: Vieira
• LR: Covey

I think adding one proven, quality arm and perhaps a depth piece makes a lot of sense.  Otherwise, I’d like to give these arms a chance to develop.

So ultimately my view of free agency is to plug a couple obvious holes with short-term stop-gaps, but otherwise go big or go home.  While I think we should try to put a respectable product on the field, 2019 should still be a development focused year.  No need to overpay for B & C free agents to get a few more wins if there a decent looking young player worthy of playing time.

Interesting  lineup/roster you have for 2019.  I would agree with your thoughts. I don't think the White Sox are going to spend any money on any free agents.  I've always thought that this rebuild would be done as cheaply as possible.

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

Interesting  lineup/roster you have for 2019.  I would agree with your thoughts. I don't think the White Sox are going to spend any money on any free agents.  I've always thought that this rebuild would be done as cheaply as possible.

Well that wasn’t the point of my post.  I fully expect them to spend big money, but they got to see where the holes are going to be first.  You can’t do that if you sign a bunch of B free agents and block your young players.  The exception is if you can sign a young positional star like Machado, Harper, or Arenado.

[bmags]

37 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I just don’t see the need to add one prior to the 2020 season or whenever we are finally ready to go for it.  I really think next year’s rotation should be all kids except Rodon.

Not sure need is the right word but I think having some good more stable SP would help our better prospects develop. I think one of the reasons for our errors is guys constantly pressing knowing the pitchers need everything they can get.

but this is all just intangible stuff. I like Morton/Keuchel as fits with our staff and would be fine signing them.

[Chicago White Sox]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

Not sure need is the right word but I think having some good more stable SP would help our better prospects develop. I think one of the reasons for our errors is guys constantly pressing knowing the pitchers need everything they can get.

but this is all just intangible stuff. I like Morton/Keuchel as fits with our staff and would be fine signing them.

Fair points.

[fathom]

15 minutes ago, bmags said:

Not sure need is the right word but I think having some good more stable SP would help our better prospects develop. I think one of the reasons for our errors is guys constantly pressing knowing the pitchers need everything they can get.

but this is all just intangible stuff. I like Morton/Keuchel as fits with our staff and would be fine signing them.

Absolutely agree they need experienced arms for next year. As we've seen this year, the youth can be hard to rely on to fill innings.  I could see them bringing in two...one bigger name and also bringing back Shields.

Edited July 6, 2018 by fathom

[footlongcomiskeydog]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

Said it about a month ago, but there is no doubt Hahn and company thought they would be more competitive this year. He was on every radio station this offseason saying how Sox would be quiet but the next offseason (after this season) would be exciting. 

Rick Hahn is really in a can't lose situation right now. If the team plays above expectations than he can say that things are moving in the right direction and quicker than expected.

If the team is terrible like our current one then he can just say that rebuilding is a fluid process and there is expected peak and valleys. Being God awful also brings a better draft pick and that can be sold to fans later down the line.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, Fan O'Faust said:

Lol - ya think?  The team is only in the fourth (and soon to be third, given Seattle's fortunes this season) longest playoff drought in all of baseball as we speak, and has only played in four playoff games in total since walking off the field in Houston in October 2005.  Who knew then that the next 13 seasons (and perhaps longer) would only feature one trip to the postseason for our Sox, comprising only four games and just one win. 

So yes, it's time.  It's time to make some moves to begin to restore relevance to this team.  And if that means the owner parting ways with more of his taxpayer-subsidized profits than he historically ever has, so be it.  

White Sox are 3rd...only Mariners and Padres fans have waited longer.