Losing Culture

[YonderLaroche]

This season is a wash, yes the Sox will have a top 3 draft pick , and some top prospects are getting MLB experience , but 2019 needs change.  This losing Culture that's gone on practically since 2007 has nearly wiped out half the fan base.  The horrible general managing from 2007-2015 destroyed the farm system , now it's finally good, but only 50% off the top guy's will make it as average major leaguers , 1 in 5 or so will be above average , and 1 in 10 will be a all star.  The Sox have had plenty of early first round picks , and have failed miserably for years (minus Chris Sale).  The scouting has been down right awful , as far as scouting talent and opponets.  The manager has been a trash since Ozzie in 2006.    2019 needs a winning a culture , this team has the money to spend (we need to spend big on a franchise player (Machado) and a ace. This team needs to buy a bullpen , catcher at minimum.  With the talent coming up over the next two years a winning culture needs to happen and they must spend big money , and get a good, experienced manager.  A winning culture and true player development is much needed , or this rebuild will be a massive fail, and attendence will continue to decline.  Ready for 2019, as this team is too hard to watch, and I continue to watch more Cubs games than sox , And I truly dislike the Cubs .  

[fathom]

this is what happens when you have a franchise where loyalty is so strong.  Hahn should have been fired the second the 2016 season ended.  I will let balta take it from here.

[greg775]

16 minutes ago, fathom said:

this is what happens when you have a franchise where loyalty is so strong.  Hahn should have been fired the second the 2016 season ended.  I will let balta take it from here.

I think RR should be fired at the all star break and let Coop be interim. Think of how fun it would be just to see Coop's head explode after games, blasting everybody. Then in the offseason hire Omar or Girardi.

[Chicago White Sox]

I was 100% pro tank this year, but they do need to find a way to improve the on-field product next year even if a lot of their prospects are still not ready to start the season.  Losing 100+ games again should not be an option IMO.

[Ducksnort]

19 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I was 100% pro tank this year, but they do need to find a way to improve the on-field product next year even if a lot of their prospects are still not ready to start the season.  Losing 100+ games again should not be an option IMO.

You mean, like not signing players such as Miguel Gonzalez, Hector Rondon, and Hector Santiago?

Not that those pitchers are the bulk of our issue, but I think the FO needs to be more intentional about signing pitchers who not only can eat innings when these young'ns faulter, but also those who can, ya know,actually pitch competitively.

Next season, barring injuries, I expect a rotation of Giolito, Rodon, Lopez, Kopech, Stephens (in not any specific order). Gonna need some good long relief arms to cover for those young starters when they go through stretches of 3-5 inning starts.

Cease starting in AAA and probably comes up later in the season to take either Gio or Stephen's spot.

Lineup already looks better with Eloy in it.

Moncada-2B

Yolmer-3B

Abreu-1B

Avi-RF

Eloy-LF

DH (my guess is Davidson/Palka share this position...)

Anderson-SS

Castillo-C

I wish for a free agent CF with Leury and Tilson being our backups, but they probably give Engel another chance.

Smith the backup. Unless Narvaez does what he has been doing for the rest of the season.

Biggest weaknesses I see for next season: Bullpen, Defense, and growing pains from the starters.

[Chicago White Sox]

27 minutes ago, Scoots said:

You mean, like not signing players such as Miguel Gonzalez, Hector Rondon, and Hector Santiago?

Not that those pitchers are the bulk of our issue, but I think the FO needs to be more intentional about signing pitchers who not only can eat innings when these young'ns faulter, but also those who can, ya know,actually pitch competitively.

Next season, barring injuries, I expect a rotation of Giolito, Rodon, Lopez, Kopech, Stephens (in not any specific order). Gonna need some good long relief arms to cover for those young starters when they go through stretches of 3-5 inning starts.

Cease starting in AAA and probably comes up later in the season to take either Gio or Stephen's spot.

Lineup already looks better with Eloy in it.

Moncada-2B

Yolmer-3B

Abreu-1B

Avi-RF

Eloy-LF

DH (my guess is Davidson/Palka share this position...)

Anderson-SS

Castillo-C

I wish for a free agent CF with Leury and Tilson being our backups, but they probably give Engel another chance.

Smith the backup. Unless Narvaez does what he has been doing for the rest of the season.

Biggest weaknesses I see for next season: Bullpen, Defense, and growing pains from the starters.

This is pretty much my plan for next year at the moment.

I really hope they can find a short-term, CF option that can hold down the fort for one or two years.  I have no idea who that might be, but adding a veteran would be nice.

[WBWSF]

A number of people have posted here as to when the White Sox will be Playoff Contenders. Some people say 2019, 2020, 2021 and some think 2022. I wish I could be optimistic about this but I can't. The team hasn't had a winning season since 2012. I'm not talking about White Sox  contending for the playoffs. I just wonder  when   will the team  finish with a winning record?   A winning season would provide some hope for the future.

[ChiSox1917]

there isn't a losing culture, the team just sucks, and it's supposed to suck the way it's assembled.  

[YonderLaroche]

1 hour ago, Scoots said:

You mean, like not signing players such as Miguel Gonzalez, Hector Rondon, and Hector Santiago?

Not that those pitchers are the bulk of our issue, but I think the FO needs to be more intentional about signing pitchers who not only can eat innings when these young'ns faulter, but also those who can, ya know,actually pitch competitively.

Next season, barring injuries, I expect a rotation of Giolito, Rodon, Lopez, Kopech, Stephens (in not any specific order). Gonna need some good long relief arms to cover for those young starters when they go through stretches of 3-5 inning starts.

Cease starting in AAA and probably comes up later in the season to take either Gio or Stephen's spot.

Lineup already looks better with Eloy in it.

Moncada-2B

Yolmer-3B

Abreu-1B

Avi-RF

Eloy-LF

DH (my guess is Davidson/Palka share this position...)

Anderson-SS

Castillo-C

I wish for a free agent CF with Leury and Tilson being our backups, but they probably give Engel another chance.

Smith the backup. Unless Narvaez does what he has been doing for the rest of the season.

Biggest weaknesses I see for next season: Bullpen, Defense, and growing pains from the starters.

Eloy will be a nice addition , Definetly need to trade or sign a proven spark plug CF, definetly a proven veteran type ace , a true closer , and a bullpen.  Some young starters may and will have to be demoted to pen.  Also a lot of defensive holes , which are big problems .  2b/SS need gold glove potential guys on a winning ball club , though they deserve more time to prove themselves but not the usually 3-5 years because they were Sox top prospects who have been failed on development or lack the talent needed.   Also, this is a losing culture and free agents tend not to want to come here unless Sox over pay , and they're usually medicore players at best, and it's usually a career killer by the end of contract.  

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, fathom said:

this is what happens when you have a franchise where loyalty is so strong.  Hahn should have been fired the second the 2016 season ended.  I will let balta take it from here.

2013. 

[Balta1701]

50 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This is pretty much my plan for next year at the moment.

I really hope they can find a short-term, CF option that can hold down the fort for one or two years.  I have no idea who that might be, but adding a veteran would be nice.

AJ Pollock. Really solid numbers, regularly injured so he won't be getting more than a couple year offer, will require us to have some depth behind him.

[southsider2k5]

Be careful what you wish for.  You just might get it. If losing games in a rebuild is that bothersome,  find something else to do for a few years. Come back with the rest of the bandwagoners. 

[Chicago White Sox]

50 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

AJ Pollock. Really solid numbers, regularly injured so he won't be getting more than a couple year offer, will require us to have some depth behind him.

I’d love him on a short-term deal, but I can’t but help think he’ll get four years at least.  Cutch is the guy I’d really wanted a year or so ago, but I doubt he can play a solid CF anymore.  Adam Jones would have been ok on a one year deal, but his defense has completely deteriorated.  I just can’t come up with a perfect option.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’d love him on a short-term deal, but I can’t but help think he’ll get four years at least.  Cutch is the guy I’d really wanted a year or so ago, but I doubt he can play a solid CF anymore.  Adam Jones would have been ok on a one year deal, but his defense has completely deteriorated.  I just can’t come up with a perfect option.

I cannot fathom a 31 year old who has been a DL player 3x in the previous 3 years getting a 4 year deal. 

[SCCWS]

1 hour ago, ChiSox1917 said:

there isn't a losing culture, the team just sucks, and it's supposed to suck the way it's assembled.  

Many of the White Sox players come through Charlotte. That franchise has had probably 20 years of misery.  I think losing culture is pretty accurate. 

[GreenSox]

I think the FO over-prioritizing culture and "happy clubhouse" has contributed to this blight.

Better players will quickly take care of any "culture" issues.

Edited July 8, 2018 by GreenSox

[Ducksnort]

19 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I think the FO over-prioritizing culture and "happy clubhouse" has contributed to this blight.

Better players will quickly take care of any "culture" issues.

Better players meaning what? Just curious...

I mean, we all know we had "better players" in Adam Eaton, Chris Sale, and even LaRoche. They were direct results of culture issues in that clubhouse. And in my opinion a big reason as to why they didn't succeed, other than the mediocre managing of Ventura among other things.

I will say, I fell into the trap this past off-season of believing that this team would surprise people and make a push for the wild card because of their upbeat and close knit clubhouse. I drank the kool-aid of the podcasts and what not.

What this season has taught me, is that it takes way more than positive vibes in a clubhouse to win...HOWEVER...until or unless I am proven otherwise,I do think Ricky, however questionable at times with his in-game managing skills, is the right man to set a foundation of winning attitudes and fundamentally sound baseball, which I believe paves the path for championships.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Scoots

[Drwhoo1]

1 hour ago, ChiSox1917 said:

there isn't a losing culture, the team just sucks, and it's supposed to suck the way it's assembled.  

Now I know that most fans on here just want to complain. They don’t care what is really going on. Because if they did, they would get what this comment says. All this talk of winning this year or next. I guess people just don’t get it. 

Yes, we have been awful the last decade or so. Yes, there has been nothing to look forward too. But 18 months ago a decision was made to try and rectify it. This team is not supposed to win now. Outside of a couple players, do you really think any of the rest are any good. 

Now some of you don’t think things will improve even after the changes but I like what I see in the minors. Everything points to us having some good players coming up. Only time will tell for sure but so far things look good. But there is 1 problem, ITS ONLY BEEN 18 MONTHS. What happened before doesn’t matter because there was no plan. What players have been called up in those months. Lopez and Giolito? Can’t forget Moncada. Anyone else? Certainly not anybody considered to be good. 

Anybody who knows how this rebuild will go right now is just being ridiculous. You won’t know until 2020 at the earliest. By then we should have 2 more high draft picks and some of our high profile prospects should be up. If they suck after that then I am all for getting rid of our entire management team. They won’t deserve to have it. But right now I am very excited with the players coming up. Not just the big names. There is more to our system than just them. I hope everyone understands this and just want to vent. I can’t tell. But I am very excited to be a Sox fan. I’ve been to Wrigley and GRF is just so much more fun. I plan on going many more times because I see the whole picture and it’s looking like it will be good. You should too

[harkness99]

ehh losing culture doesn't necessarily mean a lot when most of these players won't even be on the team when we are actually trying to win.

[reiks12]

Can you find me an organization that went through 10 years of shit but had a 'winning culture'?

[kwolf68]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Be careful what you wish for.  You just might get it. If losing games in a rebuild is that bothersome,  find something else to do for a few years. Come back with the rest of the bandwagoners. 

You got it man. I have been a Sox devotee since 1977-ish...nothing gonna change it. Love the White Sox....yea it sucks now, but when they come roaring back I'll be there and if ANYONE calls me a band wagon fan shit gonna get ugly. 

I do wish the team played better defense...the pitching is worse than I thought it would be...but NO losing is not the issue, sometimes its HOW they are losing. 

[FloydBannister1983]

1 hour ago, harkness99 said:

ehh losing culture doesn't necessarily mean a lot when most of these players won't even be on the team when we are actually trying to win.

It does when the people in charge of the train wreck are still engineering the shiny new train.

[maxjusttyped]

Years of building up a losing culture didn't seem to prevent the Astros, Cubs, or Royals from winning when they had the talent to do so.

[kitekrazy]

1 hour ago, maxjusttyped said:

Years of building up a losing culture didn't seem to prevent the Astros, Cubs, or Royals from winning when they had the talent to do so.

For the Royal though it was very short lived.  That has to be a frustrated fan base.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

And now introducing your 2022 World Series Champions Chicago White Sox ( brought to you this evening by Bulleit bourbon ;} )

1.  Nick Madrigal-Second Base ( Little Nicky becomes Chicago's version of Dustin Pedroia) 
2. Luis Robert- Center Field ( Shakes off injury prone label to become a poor mans Mike Trout) 
3. Nolan Arenado- Third Base ( Sox shock the world and sign Arenado to a 6 year contract after the 2019 season and all he does is rake rake rake...) 
4. Eloy Jimenez- Right Field ( RBI machine reminds Sox fans of an amalgamation of the Big Hurt, Jermaine Dye, and Jose Abreau) 
5. Zach Collins- First Base ( Converted catcher turns into an OBP machine with massive pop from the left side) 
6. Adley Rutschman- Catcher ( #3 pick in the 2019 draft wins ROY of the year in 2022 and resembles a young Buster Posey) 
7. Tim Anderson - Short Stop ( continues to be a perennial 20 20 guy and defensive games grows by leaps and bounds under manager Omar Vizquel)
8. Micker Adolfo - Left Field ( Cannon arm unaffected by Tommy John surgery in 2018 and provides massive pop at the bottom of the order) 
9. MIguel Cabrera-DH ( Kenny Williams always gets his guy! RH part of a DH platoon with Gavin Sheets) 

 

Starting Rotation 

1. Patrick Corbin ( Given a 100 million plus deal after 2018 season and turns into the next coming of Chris Sale) 
2. MIchael Kopech ( Fireballer right recovers nicely from Tommy John surgery in 2019 and becomes a rock solid #2) 
3. Carlos Rodon ( chronically injured pitcher signs extension after 2020 and turns in career years in 2021 and 2022) 
4. Casey Mize ( acquired prior to the 2022 season from Detroit for Yoan Moncada in a bust for bust trade. Thrives under new Sox pitching coach Mark Buehrle)
5. Reynaldo Lopez ( continues to eat innings and remind Sox fans of former pitcher Jose Contreras)

Bench

1. Laz Rivera ( Replaces Yolmer Sanchez as the Sox super utility man) 
2. Gavin Sheets ( LH part of the DH platoon and back up first baseman) 
3. Tyler Flowers ( Rick Hahn gets redemption and Flowers gets a ring before retirement) 
4. Steele Walker ( reserve outfielder with porn star name helps Sox forget the flame out of Blake Rutherford)

Bullpen

1. Closer- Dylan Cease ( flamethrower who couldn't stick as a starter turns into an all star closer) 
2. SetUp- Zach Burdi ( Failed closer turns into effective set up man) 
3. Set Up Lefty- Konnor Pilkington ( Reminds sox fans everywhere of Matt Thorton) 
4. High Leverage Righty- Alec Hansen ( Failed starter shakes off injuries to become dominant reliever) 
5. LOOGY-Bernando Flores ( every bullpen needs a good LOOGY)
6. Long Relief- Jordan Stephens ( failed starter finds role in long relief) 
7. Jack of All trades- Lincoln Henzman ( Sox's Louiseville connection makes good with occasional spot starter 

Woah!!! Get it done Hahn! I know you are on here lurking and burning like Bryan Colangelo!