caulfield12 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 https://www.mlb.com/news/rick-hahn-patient-during-rebuilding-process/c-284681614 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 I agree with the premise of the article but that was really poorly written at some points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 This needs to be pasted after every single post certain posters make. "Overall development more important than daily results, GM says" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: This needs to be pasted after every single post certain posters make. "Overall development more important than daily results, GM says" ok -- how would you characterize the "overall development" of Yoan Moncada and Lucas Giolito? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Ginger Kid said: ok -- how would you characterize the "overall development" of Yoan Moncada and Lucas Giolito? Making mistakes at the major leagues is a part of developing. I have no idea how so many people wanted a rebuild but had no idea what playing young people at the major league level looks like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Just now, southsider2k5 said: Making mistakes at the major leagues is a part of developing. I have no idea how so many people wanted a rebuild but had no idea what playing young people at the major league level looks like. I get that, 100%. But I do have concerns about a guy who's name comes up too often when issues of hustle and focus are concerned. It's easy to blame a manager or a coach (I do it reflexively) but it doesn't seem like a week goes by when Moncada does something that makes you shake your head. And I'm not talking about strikeouts or stats. At least we got Lopez in that Nats trade; that dude genuinely has a fire about him on the mound, he wants to compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 GMs really should not be listened to when it comes to timeframes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, The Ginger Kid said: I get that, 100%. But I do have concerns about a guy who's name comes up too often when issues of hustle and focus are concerned. It's easy to blame a manager or a coach (I do it reflexively) but it doesn't seem like a week goes by when Moncada does something that makes you shake your head. And I'm not talking about strikeouts or stats. At least we got Lopez in that Nats trade; that dude genuinely has a fire about him on the mound, he wants to compete. Moncada is definitely pressing cause of his offensive struggles and it’s affecting the other areas of his game. I know it can be painful to watch at times, but once his offensive game starts clicking again the rest of his game will follow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Buehrle>Wood said: GMs really should not be listened to when it comes to timeframes Yeah, message board posters are much more reliable 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 7:36 PM, southsider2k5 said: Making mistakes at the major leagues is a part of developing. I have no idea how so many people wanted a rebuild but had no idea what playing young people at the major league level looks like. Because everyone was supposed to come up and immediately play like an all-star, obviously. That's what player development is, getting to the MLB level and immediately getting great results. I mean, if Mike Trout and Bryce Harper can do it, we shouldn't expect any less from our guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Everybody on this club, including Hahn, has about 75 games left where improvement as a club doesn't matter -- where "sucking ass" is a feature not a bug. Everything changes February 18th or so 2019. I don't think you can sell another 55-65 win club next year, not with all the young talent that should be arriving by early summer next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 One thing is for sure. If they want to start winning their share of series starting next year they are going to need a setup guy and a closer who are GOOD, not just bodies. They are going to need a catcher and they are going to need Eloy and another GOOD hitting outfielder to join Avi out there. And they are going to need 1 or 2 veteran starters, likely 2 to put together a B-plus or at least a C starting rotation. All those improvements and you still likely are not a .500 team, but closer. It would be a .500 team in my scenario if the team plays grade C defense. If the defense is a D, that's not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 9:03 PM, Jose Abreu said: Yeah, message board posters are much more reliable Unironically true if they're not protecting million dollar jobs by saying these things. That's true for literally anyone else. Even if what Hahn says is true it should absolutely discarded. He has plenty of motivation to say these things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 7:40 PM, The Ginger Kid said: I get that, 100%. But I do have concerns about a guy who's name comes up too often when issues of hustle and focus are concerned. It's easy to blame a manager or a coach (I do it reflexively) but it doesn't seem like a week goes by when Moncada does something that makes you shake your head. And I'm not talking about strikeouts or stats. At least we got Lopez in that Nats trade; that dude genuinely has a fire about him on the mound, he wants to compete. If every Chicago team had a bunch of grinders WHO HAD DAT FIRE AND DA PASSION!!!!!1 this city's fans would be so excited whether they won or lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 33 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: If every Chicago team had a bunch of grinders WHO HAD DAT FIRE AND DA PASSION!!!!!1 this city's fans would be so excited whether they won or lost. If they had mustaches they'd live on for eternity as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPickle Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said: Everybody on this club, including Hahn, has about 75 games left where improvement as a club doesn't matter -- where "sucking ass" is a feature not a bug. Everything changes February 18th or so 2019. I don't think you can sell another 55-65 win club next year, not with all the young talent that should be arriving by early summer next year. If in August next year the White Sox have this team out there C - Collins/Castillo 1B - Abreu 2B - Moncada SS - Anderson 3B - Sanchez LF - Jimenez CF - Still Adam Engel Somehow RF - Garcia DH - Palka/Davidson SP - Rodon SP - Lopez SP - Giolito SP - Kopech SP - Cease/Hansen/Dunning/Fulmer Bullpen - Fry, Then I don't think it's unreasonable to think that the team is still going to be pretty mediocre. Based on the way this season has gone I don't think it makes any sense to spend money in free agency other than filling in gaps in the bullpen or possibly a short term deal for a CF that would sign for cheap. I don't think it is out of the question that team loses 100 games. I think it's more likely than that team going .500. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) As far as preaching patience, the question is, what do the Sox need to acquire to go .500 next year? Will this do it? Starters in 2019: Gio, Lopez, Rodon, Kopech, Covey. My verdict: odds are that rotation will be as bad as this year's. My suggestion: Acquire 1 very good starter via free agency if there are any and pray for natural improvement of Gio, Lopez, Rodon which is possible; I assume our young studs are not ready except for Kopech, Gio, Lopez, Rodon. Is it possible this rotation would be good? Yes it is possible. Bullpen: I don't know what to say. It projects to be horrific pen with our current 40 man. I don't know what's available in free agency or how Hahn would acquire it otherwise, but only guys worth keeping off the 40 man are Avilan, Fry, Nate and maybe Hector. The bullpen projects to be awful and like Hawk says without a bullpen you got nothing. I have no idea what the plan is to improve it. Catcher: Zack Collins. He has great stats this season. He's got to be ready in his age 24 season. First: Abreu. He's proven. Second: Moncada. He's capable of big big things. SS: Tim. Next year should be amazing for him. 3B: Nobody on our current roster projects to be good enough. Yolmer is good enough to be on the team, however, a good clubhouse guy and still young. Personally I'd sign Moose but only for 3-4 years. Moose is no star but has pop and is no Mark Teahen. Any manager should consider that infield strong. OUTFIELD: Avi rightfield is proven; Eloy LF is a star. CF: We need one badly. Free agency? None of our studs are ready besides Eloy I assume to come up. DH: Davidson over Palka. Just a gut feeling there. CONCLUSION: As it stands, it's a similar team to this year. On paper a good , MLB infield, but suspect pitching, especially bullpen. The key would be frankly for Eloy, Moncada and Timmy to take the next step and be STARS. We might need 2 veteran starters instead of one and we certainly need real bullpen pieces especially a very good closer. How bout sign Michael Brantley, Moose, Herrera and Harper? If we could sign Brantley, Moose, Herrera, Harper and maybe Matt Harvey and Keuchel do we have a winner?? Respond please. I tried. It'll cost some money. If in the future we need to make room for young studs, we trade some of these guys. Just.Win.Baby.In.2019. Edited July 9, 2018 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 18 minutes ago, TomPickle said: If in August next year the White Sox have this team out there C - Collins/Castillo 1B - Abreu 2B - Moncada SS - Anderson 3B - Sanchez LF - Jimenez CF - Still Adam Engel Somehow RF - Garcia DH - Palka/Davidson SP - Rodon SP - Lopez SP - Giolito SP - Kopech SP - Cease/Hansen/Dunning/Fulmer Bullpen - Fry, Then I don't think it's unreasonable to think that the team is still going to be pretty mediocre. Based on the way this season has gone I don't think it makes any sense to spend money in free agency other than filling in gaps in the bullpen or possibly a short term deal for a CF that would sign for cheap. I don't think it is out of the question that team loses 100 games. I think it's more likely than that team going .500. Can't go into the season with Engel and Palka as two of the three OF imo. Not sure what options will be there but those guys are dead enders in the OF and 25 man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPickle Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 37 minutes ago, greg775 said: As far as preaching patience, the question is, what do the Sox need to acquire to go .500 next year? Will this do it? CONCLUSION: As it stands, it's a similar team to this year. On paper a good , MLB infield, but suspect pitching, especially bullpen. The key would be frankly for Eloy, Moncada and Timmy to take the next step and be STARS. We might need 2 veteran starters instead of one and we certainly need real bullpen pieces especially a very good closer. How bout sign Michael Brantley, Moose, Herrera and Harper? If we could sign Brantley, Moose, Herrera, Harper and maybe Matt Harvey and Keuchel do we have a winner?? Respond please. I tried. It'll cost some money. If in the future we need to make room for young studs, we trade some of these guys. Just.Win.Baby.In.2019. I hate to break it to you, but the White Sox are not going to spend $600 million+ in free agency next off season for a chance at winning 90 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, TomPickle said: I hate to break it to you, but the White Sox are not going to spend $600 million+ in free agency next off season for a chance at winning 90 games. Hmmm. You say it'd cost $600 million to get the guys I want. Interesting isn't it, to look at it one way: Sox even in spending an alleged $600 million (your words) this offseason still might not win the division. That's how far away the Sox are. Though I think we would win the division probably especially with Harper bolstering what we got. Edited July 9, 2018 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPickle Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Harper is either going to get $400 million from a team or sign a one year deal for $30 million+ Herrera: gets the standard 3 year reliever deal for $33 million Brantley: 3 years and $40 million Moustakas: 3 years and $40 million Harvey: 1 year, $8 million Kuechel: 4 years, $72 million I guess it's hard to project out since the free agent market totally cratered last year. I don't think those are totally unreasonable amounts and that's just under $600 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, TomPickle said: If in August next year the White Sox have this team out there C - Collins/Castillo 1B - Abreu 2B - Moncada SS - Anderson 3B - Sanchez LF - Jimenez CF - Still Adam Engel Somehow RF - Garcia DH - Palka/Davidson SP - Rodon SP - Lopez SP - Giolito SP - Kopech SP - Cease/Hansen/Dunning/Fulmer Bullpen - Fry, Then I don't think it's unreasonable to think that the team is still going to be pretty mediocre. Based on the way this season has gone I don't think it makes any sense to spend money in free agency other than filling in gaps in the bullpen or possibly a short term deal for a CF that would sign for cheap. I don't think it is out of the question that team loses 100 games. I think it's more likely than that team going .500. Looking at your team for 2019 tells me that you're probably right on your roster. I don't think the team is going to spend any money on any free agents. All in all it looks like another long season in 2019. 2019 will be year 7 of the dreadful Rick Hahn era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, WBWSF said: Looking at your team for 2019 tells me that you're probably right on your roster. I don't think the team is going to spend any money on any free agents. All in all it looks like another long season in 2019. 2019 will be year 7 of the dreadful Rick Hahn era. What I don't understand is if we are going to bring up Eloy and Kopech early next season, why we don't try to win next season? Again it would require some money. Why do we have to wait for ALL the prospects to be ready to try to compete at all? It seems to me the strategy is to build an entire pitching staff with our current prospects as well as the 3-4 currently ready. And the strategy is to fill the outfield with our current prospects plus maybe Avi. To wait for all of 'em. With a handful of the prospects ready and on the MLB team next year, all it would cost is money to compete. Anderson will already be a veteran for gosh sakes, third year guy. Moncada full of experience as well. It seems to me we won't even try til Robert is ready and Madrigal is ready and many more pitchers besides Kopech are ready. Dumb. If the Sox don't try to fix this bullpen and acquire at least one GOOD veteran starter I will forever be convinced Jerry checks his net worth every single day and drools over it. I guess Hahn can sell it as getting yet another top three pick. Good luck with the next two top three picks. My guess are they'll go for college pitchers. We.Shall.See. Edited July 9, 2018 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said: Can't go into the season with Engel and Palka as two of the three OF imo. Not sure what options will be there but those guys are dead enders in the OF and 25 man. this is exactly what I was going to type....not if you plan on competing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, Wanne said: this is exactly what I was going to type....not if you plan on competing. Probably true. But Palka is worth the price of admission on a given night ... if he connects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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