Giolito makes half-year list as 6th most disappointing

[Dick Allen]

Yolmer Sanchez is a success story, but he's an average major league player. It looks better because he far exceeded what most thought Carlos Sanchez would be, and there are so many failures, anyone making a contribution is probably a bit overappriated. But we need to call a spade a spade. Yolmer's a good guy and could have a role on a good team, but more than likely not full time. 

 

The Sox need success stories with players who won't be average. Hopefully it happens. I really doubt all these guys will fail.

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And Hostetler

And Paddy

Etc.  But loyalty.

Hostetler and Paddy have been around for a while. 

[Balta1701]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

Hostetler and Paddy have been around for a while. 

Hostetler's pretty new at least to his role. Paddy's been around for more than half a decade, during which time the White Sox haven't exactly set the world on fire with drafting and scouting. Maybe he doesn't deserve to be tarred and feathered like Rick Hahn, but some level of torture seems appropriate.

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Hostetler's pretty new at least to his role. Paddy's been around for more than half a decade, during which time the White Sox haven't exactly set the world on fire with drafting and scouting. Maybe he doesn't deserve to be tarred and feathered like Rick Hahn, but some level of torture seems appropriate.

Hostetler got his role for some reason, and judging by the Sox drafts before he took over, it apparently wasn't draft recommendations. 

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And Hostetler

And Paddy

Etc.  But loyalty.

The narrative used to fit, but they’ve at least attempted to make changes.  It’s just insane that some people can’t give these changes an actual chance to work out.  Creating a strong scouting & development isn’t going to happen overnight given where we started from. 

So far, I’m optimistic on Paddy & Getz.  The last couple of drafts look promising to me, although way too early to declare anything with any level of certainty.  And I was probably was one of the more vocal anti-Getz guys when hired, but I think it’s apparent he’s brought some best practices into the organzation like IDPs.  Plus overall we’ve seen quite a bit of favorable steps forward this year in our prospect base (health aside).

Edited July 11, 2018 by Chicago White Sox

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Hostetler and Paddy have been around for a while. 

Hostetler has only lead 3 1/2 drafts and has been adding people to his team the last couple of years.  We’re just getting to the point where we can maybe start evaluating him.

[oldsox]

Paddy did get us Tatis.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Hostetler has only lead 3 1/2 drafts and has been adding people to his team the last couple of years.  We’re just getting to the point where we can maybe start evaluating him.

And Paddy was hired in February of 2013.  Realistically it means while he was there for the 2013 class, many of those guys had already been agreed to through early deals.  Considering you are dealing with 14/15/16 year olds, those guys are just now starting to show the ability to evaluated.  Micker, the primary guy out of that 2013 class, still is 21 years old.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, oldsox said:

Paddy did get us Tatis.

Sure, and he deserves credit for that.  But I’m also concerned if this guy had superstar potential why didn’t he push Hahn harder not to give him up?  Were the Padres not going to give Shields up if we offered some other LatAm signing instead?  I don’t think our organization realized what kind of talent they had in Tatis.  Obviously most organization a didn’t or he would have signed for more than $800k, but it does seem like a case where Preller knew the player better than we did.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

And Paddy was hired in February of 2013.  Realistically it means while he was there for the 2013 class, many of those guys had already been agreed to through early deals.  Considering you are dealing with 14/15/16 year olds, those guys are just now starting to show the ability to evaluated.  Micker, the primary guy out of that 2013 class, still is 21 years old.

I’ve been somewhat down on Paddy given the overall lack of results IMO, but I can fully admit that he started with a clusterfuck of a situation due to the whole Wilder fiasco and probably had to build the operation from scratch.  He probably deserves a bit more time before jumping to any conclusions.

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, oldsox said:

Paddy did get us Tatis.

His job is actually the biggest crapshoot of them all. It's easy to identify Luis Robert and if your team is willing to pony up the $50 million, you're a genius. 

Projecting 15 and 16 year olds, who have never been to the US,  as major leaguers is a pretty tough task.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

His job is actually the biggest crapshoot of them all. It's easy to identify Luis Robert and if your team is willing to pony up the $50 million, you're a genius. 

Projecting 15 and 16 year olds, who have never been to the US,  as major leaguers is a pretty tough task.

But that’s where it becomes a numbers game and you simply throw lots of money at a bunch of kids and hope you hit on a few.  The fact we never went into the penalty until Robert (and didn’t exactly go crazy beforehand) shows a lack of creativity & strategy IMO.  Not sure if that’s because of Paddy, our front office, or Reinsdorf forcing his old-school ways, but it has definitely put us behind the curve.  Thank god new system prevents these loopholes and will allow us to be competitive.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’ve been somewhat down on Paddy given the overall lack of results IMO, but I can fully admit that he started with a clusterfuck of a situation due to the whole Wilder fiasco and probably had to build the operation from scratch.  He probably deserves a bit more time before jumping to any conclusions.

If you step back and look at it, Micker, Tatis, and Robert is a pretty nice resume to start with.  That is assuming you get nothing out of guys who are hitting in the lowest levels now like Quintero and Sosa, etc who are leading their teams.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

If you step back and look at it, Micker, Tatis, and Robert is a pretty nice resume to start with.  That is assuming you get nothing out of guys who are hitting in the lowest levels now like Quintero and Sosa, etc who are leading their teams.

The problem for me is the complete lack of guys reaching full season ball and actually being productive.  I’m not expecting a ton of these guys to turn into quality major leaguers, but more of them should be reaching High A or AA before flaming out IMO.  I can count the number of LatAm signings under Paddy that have even reached High A.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The problem for me is the complete lack of guys reaching full season ball and actually being productive.  I’m not expecting a ton of these guys to turn into quality major leaguers, but more of them should be reaching High A or AA before flaming out IMO.  I can count the number of LatAm signings under Paddy that have even reached High A.

With it being so early, I am not that worried.  They are getting here en mas, the higher end guys are moving.  The lower signings even seem to be having success at the lower levels.

[Dick Allen]

17 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If you step back and look at it, Micker, Tatis, and Robert is a pretty nice resume to start with.  That is assuming you get nothing out of guys who are hitting in the lowest levels now like Quintero and Sosa, etc who are leading their teams.

But that's the problem. So far, you and I have had as much major league success as these 3. 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

But that's the problem. So far, you and I have had as much major league success as these 3. 

And how many from the class of 2013 have?

[Dick Allen]

11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And how many from the class of 2013 have?

All I know is the White Sox call up guys every year and every year it seems to be the same thing. Strikeouts, hardly any walks, low batting average, low on base percentage, baserunning mistakes the few times they get on, mostly poor defense, and overall baseball stupidity. It hasn't changed the last couple of years, that's for sure. 

 

It would be nice if they acquired from another organization or developed one themselves that actually gets called up and looks like he didn't just start playing baseball a few months ago.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

All I know is the White Sox call up guys every year and every year it seems to be the same thing. Strikeouts, hardly any walks, low batting average, low on base percentage, baserunning mistakes the few times they get on, mostly poor defense, and overall baseball stupidity. It hasn't changed the last couple of years, that's for sure. 

 

It would be nice if they acquired from another organization or developed one themselves that actually gets called up and looks like he didn't just start playing baseball a few months ago.

So none?

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So none?

I'm sure there are. You go ahead and make excuses for the White Sox. Hostetler was here before, then came back, and as far as I can tell didn't exactly recommend future HOFers. Paddy has been around a while and his record is so thin,you are giving himhim credit for injured  A ball players. Hahn and KW have been here forever and are a big reason the team is where it is.  

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

I'm sure there are. You go ahead and make excuses for the White Sox. Hostetler was here before, then came back, and as far as I can tell didn't exactly recommend future HOFers. Paddy has been around a while and his record is so thin,you are giving himhim credit for injured  A ball players. Hahn and KW have been here forever and are a big reason the team is where it is.  

Speaking of excuses.

[Dick Allen]

26 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Speaking of excuses.

Here's his stellar 2013 class

Top signing: OF Hanleth Otano, Dominican Republic, $550,000.

Six-figure signings: 3B Luis Castillo (Dominican Republic), SS Johan Cruz (Dominican Republic), OF Antonio Rodriguez (Dominican Republic), RHP Victor Done (Dominican Republic), RHP Yelmison Peralta (Dominican Republic).

 

The problem is, it's a real tough way to acquire and expect a lot of talent. You have to wait a really long time. 7 or 8 years. Last year at Soxfest, Hahn and Hostetler were talking about how Paddy's guys were poised for breakouts. It didn't happen. 

 

Edited July 11, 2018 by Dick Allen

[SCCWS]

I see the Red Sox a lot and they seem to have about a 50-60% success rate on their top rated positional players. Just my observation but Benintendi-Betts- Bogaert and Vazquez are all starters.  Bradley, Swihart and Travis are all still struggling. They traded Shaw to Brewers and he is pretty solid for them.  Devers and Moncada are still developing . But that is at least 10 guys in 4 years that have arrived in the majors so their farm is producing positional players and they then trade for pitching.