wrathofhahn Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: Meija was also able to play every day in the minors. Was he an everyday C? That's sort of the point where is the harm in having players learn other positions in the minor leagues? That's actually preferable and gives them another position to move to if they are blocked at the MLB level. Dodgers do this all the time. Hell Smith is playing a ton of 3B despite being a stud at C. I understand some people want to pencil guys in at certain positions and just sort of leave them there but it's more important to get your talent on the field you talk about ML but what about MLB? A FA Hahn likes may come available it's a huge benefit being able to move a young guy off a position even if he is slightly less effective because at the end of the day if the player is a good player and still under control he's underpaid and you are still getting a ton surplus value regardless of where he is on the diamond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Kahnle plus Robertson (who had some value) and the remains of Frazier got us a descending top 100 type prospect in Rutherford plus a C prospest in Clarkin. A Riley + Allard package is significantly more valuable IMO and while Kahnle didn’t have much a track record either he did have eye popping stuff. Jace doesn't? His K/9 is pretty ridiculous if he has mediocre stuff. He's also a lefty with 6 years of control instead of a righty with 4. Rutherford was also considered top 50 at the time, the rankings that dropped him came out right after. Also Davidson was brought up in a 2 for 3 proposed swap by a Braves beat writer that included Fried, who is ranked higher than Allard. Also Davidson comes with much more control than Frazier did. Another thing I'd be willing to change is send Sanchez instead of Davidson as long as Riley was coming back. I just assumed the Braves would be more interested in Davidson since their beat writer suggested him as part of a trade. Edited July 20, 2018 by Dam8610 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxJon Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 Read that BoSox may eye Shields as they need SP and don't have the ammo to cop a legitimate arm, imagine a Shields, Soria, Cedeno, Avilan package all to BOS? Highly unlikely but would make a lot of sense for BOS MAYBE that package would net Groome but still not too likely I'd deal that package for OF Cole Brannen, 1B Josh Ockimey, and RHP Roniel Raudes...NOT HAPPENING, but fun to think about Can we please realize Soria doesn't have the same value as Hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Dam8610 said: Jace doesn't? His K/9 is pretty ridiculous if he has mediocre stuff. He's also a lefty with 6 years of control instead of a righty with 4. Rutherford was also considered top 50 at the time, the rankings that dropped him came out right after. Also Davidson was brought up in a 2 for 3 proposed swap by a Braves beat writer that included Fried, who is ranked higher than Allard. Also Davidson comes with much more control than Frazier did. Another thing I'd be willing to change is send Sanchez instead of Davidson as long as Riley was coming back. I just assumed the Braves would be more interested in Davidson since their beat writer suggested him as part of a trade. By me saying Kahnle has eye popping stuff does not mean I’m saying Fry has mediocre stuff. Kahnle had one of the highest average velocities when we traded him and power pitchers are typically more attractive for October. Fry definitely has good stuff for a lefty, but Andrew Miller he is not. Maybe his breaking pitches can make up for that and he can still be a dominant reliever, but I don’t think right now he’s as easy of a sell as Kahnle was last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, ChiSoxJon said: Read that BoSox may eye Shields as they need SP and don't have the ammo to cop a legitimate arm, imagine a Shields, Soria, Cedeno, Avilan package all to BOS? Highly unlikely but would make a lot of sense for BOS MAYBE that package would net Groome but still not too likely I'd deal that package for OF Cole Brannen, 1B Josh Ockimey, and RHP Roniel Raudes...NOT HAPPENING, but fun to think about Can we please realize Soria doesn't have the same value as Hand Not one single person has suggested Soria has the same value as Hand. Edited July 21, 2018 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxJon Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Not one single person has suggested Soria has the same value as Hand. One is when one is suggesting we get an org.'s #1 for him, ridiculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox72 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 10 hours ago, ChiSoxJon said: Read that BoSox may eye Shields as they need SP and don't have the ammo to cop a legitimate arm, imagine a Shields, Soria, Cedeno, Avilan package all to BOS? Highly unlikely but would make a lot of sense for BOS MAYBE that package would net Groome but still not too likely I'd deal that package for OF Cole Brannen, 1B Josh Ockimey, and RHP Roniel Raudes...NOT HAPPENING, but fun to think about Can we please realize Soria doesn't have the same value as Hand This reeks of desperation to try and fix/feel better about Tatis Jr. - which, trust me, I get. But not a chance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Fry is a tough sell because he's more valuable to the Sox than Kahnle was, but not as valuable to other teams in the July period as Kahnle was either. Fry is younger, under more control and doesn't have Kahnle's history of being terrible such that there's a less chance Fry is a flash in the pan. Two months ago, I suggested that the Sox consider trading him. Consider. The emergence of Soria as a legitimate trade piece makes trading Fry less enticing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 59 minutes ago, GreenSox said: Fry is a tough sell because he's more valuable to the Sox than Kahnle was, but not as valuable to other teams in the July period as Kahnle was either. Fry is younger, under more control and doesn't have Kahnle's history of being terrible such that there's a less chance Fry is a flash in the pan. Two months ago, I suggested that the Sox consider trading him. Consider. The emergence of Soria as a legitimate trade piece makes trading Fry less enticing. If I can get a top 100 positional prospect for him that fits a position of need and is relatively close to the majors, I’m moving him and not looking back. For example, I’d move Fry in a heartbeat for a guy like Austin Riley. I just don’t that being a realistic ask at this point in time and Riley in particular seems off limits. Short of that, hold onto Fry and have him help anchor what could be a dominant pen in the coming years. If the Sox can add one proven veteran, I think we have the pieces internally to build something special in no time. A trio of Burdi, Hamilton, & Fry along with said veteran is a fantastic starting point. Beyond that we’d still have Jones, Bummer, Fulmer, Vieira, Covey, & Stephens as potential bullpen options. That’s a pretty good group of young, cheap, high upside arms IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 56 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: If I can get a top 100 positional prospect for him that fits a position of need and is relatively close to the majors, I’m moving him and not looking back. For example, I’d move Fry in a heartbeat for a guy like Austin Riley. I just don’t that being a realistic ask at this point in time and Riley in particular seems off limits. Short of that, hold onto Fry and have him help anchor what could be a dominant pen in the coming years. If the Sox can add one proven veteran, I think we have the pieces internally to build something special in no time. A trio of Burdi, Hamilton, & Fry along with said veteran is a fantastic starting point. Beyond that we’d still have Jones, Bummer, Fulmer, Vieira, Covey, & Stephens as potential bullpen options. That’s a pretty good group of young, cheap, high upside arms IMO. I don't know whether Riley is "the guy", if he's obtainable (I certainly wouldn't think for Fry alone), but the Sox need to start building a major league team and they need a 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxJon Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 8 hours ago, Sox72 said: This reeks of desperation to try and fix/feel better about Tatis Jr. - which, trust me, I get. But not a chance. How does a deal involving Avilan, Soria, and Cedeno have ANYTHING to do with Tatis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Nate Jones with a setback and being shut-down for two weeks. Looks like we can exclude him from any trade proposals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 I'm going to predict Jose doesn't get traded due to him playing like shit lately and Soria gets dealt for less than some are predicting on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 hour ago, soxfan2014 said: I'm going to predict Jose doesn't get traded due to him playing like shit lately and Soria gets dealt for less than some are predicting on here. Soria will get moved, but I don’t think we will get offered enough to want to deal Fry. If a solid offer came across I wouldn’t hesitate to move him, but his track record is too short to warrant a sizable return. Abreu is likely to stay put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 I’m willing to bet that Soria is the only one dealt at the deadline, then either Cedeno, Shields or Avlian get moved in August through a waiver trade. Abreu and Garcia potentially get moved in the offseason. Jones does not get dealt and leaves in free agency eventually after struggling with injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Avisail Garcia to the Phillies for RHP Adonis Medina & LHP McKenzie Mills. The Phillies are in a position where they find themselves atop the NL east and need some corner outfield help, Avi would play well in their park and be and upgrade over Nick Williams, while not being a rental. Garcia offers a fair bit of upside and a one less thing to worry about for them going into the off season, provided he can stay healthy. James Shields & Xavier Cedeno and cash to the Red Sox for LHP Jason Groome & SS Antoni Flores, with san diego and the sox picking up all the freight neither is a "rental" per se. Boston needs a 4/5 and a bit more bullpen help especially from the left side. Groome has lost a ton of his prospect shine due to injury and is likely in the 125-150 range or prospects at this point. Flores is an interesting 17 year old international signing that might be moved off of SS in the future that is putting up numbers outside the states. Joakim Soria & Luis Avilan to the Rockies for 3B Colton Welker & LHP Breiling Eusebio, again neither is a "rental" per se. Rockies need help in their bullpen if they plan on staying in the thick of it in the NL west. The A's got Familia for a song and I don't expect that to be the case for the rest of the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxJon Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 hours ago, beautox said: Avisail Garcia to the Phillies for RHP Adonis Medina & LHP McKenzie Mills. The Phillies are in a position where they find themselves atop the NL east and need some corner outfield help, Avi would play well in their park and be and upgrade over Nick Williams, while not being a rental. Garcia offers a fair bit of upside and a one less thing to worry about for them going into the off season, provided he can stay healthy. James Shields & Xavier Cedeno and cash to the Red Sox for LHP Jason Groome & SS Antoni Flores, with san diego and the sox picking up all the freight neither is a "rental" per se. Boston needs a 4/5 and a bit more bullpen help especially from the left side. Groome has lost a ton of his prospect shine due to injury and is likely in the 125-150 range or prospects at this point. Flores is an interesting 17 year old international signing that might be moved off of SS in the future that is putting up numbers outside the states. Joakim Soria & Luis Avilan to the Rockies for 3B Colton Welker & LHP Breiling Eusebio, again neither is a "rental" per se. Rockies need help in their bullpen if they plan on staying in the thick of it in the NL west. The A's got Familia for a song and I don't expect that to be the case for the rest of the deadline. Interesting destinations but don't see Avi moving, nor Shields/Cedeno netting Groome alone let alone another raw prospect, the last one is more realistic but still seems too good to be true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 It makes sense why the Twins wouldn't want to sell everything becase of their mediocre year--I think they have a promising core that will be competitive for a nice chunk of years. However, it would make too much sense to them to move Fernando Rodney--who's 41 and on a 1-year deal. I know Boston has shown interest in Rodney, but I think a potential deal involving Rodney could compete with a deal involving Soria (to Boston). Just don't know if I were the Red Sox if I'd want Fernando Rodney or Joakim Soria in there for a 2018 playoff run, but both seem to be pitching well and have a strong recovery time from nights in which they get bombed--which in fairness...hasn't been too often this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 6 hours ago, beautox said: Avisail Garcia to the Phillies for RHP Adonis Medina & LHP McKenzie Mills. The Phillies are in a position where they find themselves atop the NL east and need some corner outfield help, Avi would play well in their park and be and upgrade over Nick Williams, while not being a rental. Garcia offers a fair bit of upside and a one less thing to worry about for them going into the off season, provided he can stay healthy. James Shields & Xavier Cedeno and cash to the Red Sox for LHP Jason Groome & SS Antoni Flores, with san diego and the sox picking up all the freight neither is a "rental" per se. Boston needs a 4/5 and a bit more bullpen help especially from the left side. Groome has lost a ton of his prospect shine due to injury and is likely in the 125-150 range or prospects at this point. Flores is an interesting 17 year old international signing that might be moved off of SS in the future that is putting up numbers outside the states. Joakim Soria & Luis Avilan to the Rockies for 3B Colton Welker & LHP Breiling Eusebio, again neither is a "rental" per se. Rockies need help in their bullpen if they plan on staying in the thick of it in the NL west. The A's got Familia for a song and I don't expect that to be the case for the rest of the deadline. Not horrible ideas, but I doubt the Phillies/Red Sox/Rockies would be willing to part with those prospects in the proposed deals. The price won't be anywhere near that high for Soria, as Welker is a legitimate top 100 prospect. I'm thinking the return will be along the lines of what we got for Swarzak, maybe slightly more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 22 hours ago, steveno89 said: Soria will get moved, but I don’t think we will get offered enough to want to deal Fry. If a solid offer came across I wouldn’t hesitate to move him, but his track record is too short to warrant a sizable return. Abreu is likely to stay put. His track record is no shorter than Kahnle's, and he's the main reason the Sox got Rutherford. I could see another package deal like that that nets the team a high quality guy and some lottery tickets. Maybe even more considering what the Indians paid for Hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, Dam8610 said: His track record is no shorter than Kahnle's, and he's the main reason the Sox got Rutherford. I could see another package deal like that that nets the team a high quality guy and some lottery tickets. Maybe even more considering what the Indians paid for Hand. If we can package some combination of Leury Garcia/Jace Fry/Joakim Soria to get a top 100 prospect, I absolutely do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxJon Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 hour ago, steveno89 said: Not horrible ideas, but I doubt the Phillies/Red Sox/Rockies would be willing to part with those prospects in the proposed deals. The price won't be anywhere near that high for Soria, as Welker is a legitimate top 100 prospect. I'm thinking the return will be along the lines of what we got for Swarzak, maybe slightly more. Finally, bingo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 14 minutes ago, steveno89 said: If we can package some combination of Leury Garcia/Jace Fry/Joakim Soria to get a top 100 prospect, I absolutely do it. Unfortunately, it takes two to tango. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: Unfortunately, it takes two to tango. Yeah, that idea reminds me of one of the trades you constantly get proposed in fantasy. Where it's like one good player and two average players for one of your best. Then you laugh at the guy as you decline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxJon Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 With Suter down, MIL will need a starter? Same team Hahn fleeced Cordell from (a top 15 prospect) for Swarzak last year I know MIL is into Britton too so maybe they go for Soria How does RHP James Shields and RHP Joakim Soaria to MIL in exchange for 1B Jake Gatewood and LHP Brendan Murphy That allows Hahn to package LHPs Avilan and Cedeno to BOS in exchange for OF Cole Brannen and RHP Roniel Raudes and call it a Deadline 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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