Sticky Stuff Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 15 minutes ago, Scoots said: Our outfield in September is going to be nuts...think of all of the options for Ricky to mess around with...Avi, Leury, Delmonico, Eloy (his ass better be up here in September), Palka, Tilson, Engel, LaMarre (I assume), Thompson???...that's 9 potential outfielders!! Avi is the only shoo-in for every day RF, and assuming he is healthy (and doesn't get traded), will play there every day. That only leaves 2 spots, and only Leury, Tilson and Engel can play CF. At least Leury can play the infield...probably going to have to rotate a lot of these guys between LF and DH. September is gonna be nuts I bet. With all those choices how can the Royals and Orioles have a record worse than ours? ?♂️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksnort Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, DH in the NL said: With all those choices how can the Royals and Orioles have a record worse than ours? ?♂️ Especially Baltimore...they just started committing to the rebuild like yesterday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, Scoots said: Is it really wasting a year of service time though? By the time that time comes around for him to be a free agent, shouldn't the Sox already be competitive? Wouldn't you think he would want to stay and sign an extension? Are we going to do this with all of our prospects? 1 damn year isn't going to make a difference. Bring him up and get the fans excited. Give him a taste of the big leagues. Let him play against the likes of Boston, Cleveland, LA and the Cubs. Let him understand how he needs to prepare in the offseason against Major Leaguers vs Minor Leagues. They should do the same shit with Kopech. Yes, it really is. 1 damn year makes an enormous difference and will likely be worth upwards of $30M plus if these guys turn out to be the players they project to be. No, the Sox shouldn't do it with all their prospects, but they should do it with the marquee ones, and calling either Kopech or Eloy up this year would be straight idiotic. Thankfully, I am nearly positive the Sox agree. You don't do this type of stuff to excite fans. Again, it would be REALLY FU**ING stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticky Stuff Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: Yes, it really is. 1 damn year makes an enormous difference and will likely be worth upwards of $30M plus if these guys turn out to be the players they project to be. No, the Sox shouldn't do it with all their prospects, but they should do it with the marquee ones, and calling either Kopech or Eloy up this year would be straight idiotic. Thankfully, I am nearly positive the Sox agree. You don't do this type of stuff to excite fans. Again, it would be REALLY FU**ING stupid. I’m guilty of buying tickets if this happens. I want to see the both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksnort Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Yes, it really is. 1 damn year makes an enormous difference and will likely be worth upwards of $30M plus if these guys turn out to be the players they project to be. No, the Sox shouldn't do it with all their prospects, but they should do it with the marquee ones, and calling either Kopech or Eloy up this year would be straight idiotic. Thankfully, I am nearly positive the Sox agree. You don't do this type of stuff to excite fans. Again, it would be REALLY FU**ING stupid. They have the money. They can sign these guys to the deals they want/deserve. In Hahn's words, the money will be there when it's time to spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, Scoots said: They have the money. They can sign these guys to the deals they want/deserve. In Hahn's words, the money will be there when it's time to spend. The Sox are never going to the be type of team that will be able to sign guys like Eloy and Kopech to long term deals in FA if they reach their ceilings. The Sox need teams built at least partially by young, cheap and elite talent. That is exactly what they could get with these two. They aren't going to sacrifice that for 30 games in a lost season. If there guys were coming up in 2018, they would be up here already (beyond injury for Eloy and general ineffectiveness for Kopech). And the Sox may have money to burn right now, but they're not going to be in the same position in 2024/2025 when these guys could be FAs, and if they do, something went horribly wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Yes, it really is. 1 damn year makes an enormous difference and will likely be worth upwards of $30M plus if these guys turn out to be the players they project to be. No, the Sox shouldn't do it with all their prospects, but they should do it with the marquee ones, and calling either Kopech or Eloy up this year would be straight idiotic. Thankfully, I am nearly positive the Sox agree. You don't do this type of stuff to excite fans. Again, it would be REALLY FU**ING stupid. I'm not sure it would be stupid at all. The collective bargaining agreement ends in 1-2 years and you can't assume the deal will remain the same. I'd just as soon bring him and Kopech and Stevens up. Let them play and learn while rebuilding interest in the franchise. P.S. Just release Adam Engel already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, zisk said: I'm not sure it would be stupid at all. The collective bargaining agreement ends in 1-2 years and you can't assume the deal will remain the same. I'd just as soon bring him and Kopech and Stevens up. Let them play and learn while rebuilding interest in the franchise. P.S. Just release Adam Engel already. Stephens is a totally different coversation than Eloy and Kopech. Sure, get him up as soon as Shields is gone, or let him replace Covey after another shitty start. Absolute best case scenario, you're getting a mid rotation starter out of Stephens. He doesn't have elite, one of best pitchers in baseball type stuff like Kopech does, and therefore, the calculus and decision making is and should be different. Edited July 19, 2018 by ChiSox59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Making a decision based on something that is likely to change in the new CBA, and even if it doesn't, will impact the club in 7 years -- seems really stupid imo. It's impossible to predict all that will happen between now and then. If Eloy is ready to come up in August he should come up imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Making a decision based on something that is likely to change in the new CBA, and even if it doesn't, will impact the club in 7 years -- seems really stupid imo. It's impossible to predict all that will happen between now and then. If Eloy is ready to come up in August he should come up imo. I’m in the “keep Eloy and Kopech in Charlotte” camp. If the CBA changes, it very well could be free agency after 5 years...which would make it even worse. Of course, there might not be a 2022 season, so there’s that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Making a decision based on something that is likely to change in the new CBA, and even if it doesn't, will impact the club in 7 years -- seems really stupid imo. It's impossible to predict all that will happen between now and then. If Eloy is ready to come up in August he should come up imo. Running your business like the future doesn't matter is how you end up not in business (or without your job). The Sox can afford to be patient. In fact, they have incentive to continue to be bad this season. I would be shocked if we see either of these guys this season, and frankly, I would lose some confidence in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: Running your business like the future doesn't matter is how you end up not in business (or without your job). The Sox can afford to be patient. In fact, they have incentive to continue to be bad this season. I would be shocked if we see either of these guys this season, and frankly, I would lose some confidence in the process. I would question the process if a player is ready for MLB and they are held back for financial reasons in 2025. In fact I'd wonder what we are all even doing here. Management included. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said: I would question the process if a player is ready for MLB and they are held back for financial reasons in 2025. In fact I'd wonder what we are all even doing here. Management included. Its not just financial reasons. It building a baseball team for sustained success reasons. 2018 is toast. The Sox actually project to be good in 2025. The Sox should rather have those guys on the team in their prime in 2025 than for a handful of games in lost season in 2018 when they should be tanking to get best pick possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Its not just financial reasons. It building a baseball team for sustained success reasons. 2018 is toast. The Sox actually project to be good in 2025. The Sox should rather have those guys on the team in their prime in 2025 than for a handful of games in lost season in 2018 when they should be tanking to get best pick possible. Couldn't it be more valuable for the players in question to develop against MLB competition while we aren't competing, rather than throwing them into the thick of it when we're trying to contend? They're gonna need time to adjust. I'd rather have them be ready and able to hold their own in MLB in 2020 than actively hurt their development to maybe possibly have them in 2025, as the CBA will probably change those rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said: Couldn't it be more valuable for the players in question to develop against MLB competition while we aren't competing, rather than throwing them into the thick of it when we're trying to contend? They're gonna need time to adjust. I'd rather have them be ready and able to hold their own in MLB in 2020 than actively hurt their development to maybe possibly have them in 2025, as the CBA will probably change those rules. If two weeks will destroy their development and effectiveness, we might as well get used to losing for a very long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, Dam8610 said: If two weeks will destroy their development and effectiveness, we might as well get used to losing for a very long time. I'm not talking about two weeks, I'm talking about waiting until late April rather than calling them up in the coming weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 After seeing the adjustments it has taken for more raw pitchers to adjust up here, I think you want Kopech up sooner versus later if you think he is going to be on teh major league roster in 2019, especially if he has come back around at AAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I think it's important to reward young players for success. I'd have a hard time explaining to Eloy that he can't come up because of something that might happen 7 years from now. I'd be worried about pissing him off, frankly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, Jose Abreu said: I'm not talking about two weeks, I'm talking about waiting until late April rather than calling them up in the coming weeks It's arguable that they're ready now. You might be pushing them too quickly to call them up in the near future, and a September callup makes zero sense at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dam8610 said: It's arguable that they're ready now. You might be pushing them too quickly to call them up in the near future, and a September callup makes zero sense at this point. Totally agree that it shouldn't be September. It should be now (late July/early August) or next April. I just happen to lean towards the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dam8610 said: It's arguable that they're ready now. You might be pushing them too quickly to call them up in the near future, and a September callup makes zero sense at this point. It would be nice if if you could designate two guys from your 40 man, under 23, starting September 1st that would not accrue service time but that would get a MLB check and experience anyways. Might be something considered in the next CBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 44 minutes ago, zisk said: I'm not sure it would be stupid at all. The collective bargaining agreement ends in 1-2 years and you can't assume the deal will remain the same. I'd just as soon bring him and Kopech and Stevens up. Let them play and learn while rebuilding interest in the franchise. P.S. Just release Adam Engel already. I think you may be right. With all the issues with free agency this past winter, I think the union will push real hard for free agency a year earlier somehow. They may even give in on sort of salary structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, chitownsportsfan said: It would be nice if if you could designate two guys from your 40 man, under 23, starting September 1st that would not accrue service time but that would get a MLB check and experience anyways. Might be something considered in the next CBA. The players are probably going to push on service time in the new CBA. I wouldn't be surprised to see something like the NFL's RFA system instituted, where arb eligible players at some point during their arb get to shop their services on the open market with the team with rights getting RoFR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 44 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Making a decision based on something that is likely to change in the new CBA, and even if it doesn't, will impact the club in 7 years -- seems really stupid imo. It's impossible to predict all that will happen between now and then. If Eloy is ready to come up in August he should come up imo. Its not if there is good information from some union insiders about what the primary issues for the next CBA will be. A smart organization will be prepared for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 14 minutes ago, Dam8610 said: If two weeks will destroy their development and effectiveness, we might as well get used to losing for a very long time. Its not that it will destroy it it's that they may progress faster in the pressure free environment. Too many people look at what won't hurt the the players development as opposed to what is best for their development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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