HOU interested in Abreu/Britton

[LittleHurt05]

22 minutes ago, flavum said:

Nice shutout by Tanaka.

Ha, well played. Although no playoff teams will have Jake Bauers, CJ Cron and Ji-Man Choi batting 3 4 5

[Chicago White Sox]

BA ranked Tate 6th in a strong Yankees system.  My guess is he’s just outside the top 100.  One of the other guys was ranked 15th by MLBPipeline.  Seems like a solid return for a rental reliever with upside but also question marks.

[wrathofhahn]

17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

BA ranked Tate 6th in a strong Yankees system.  My guess is he’s just outside the top 100.  One of the other guys was ranked 15th by MLBPipeline.  Seems like a solid return for a rental reliever with upside but also question marks.

Not really impressed with who the O's have targeted with both trades. Yankees have some interesting young guys like Medina and Garcia. Instead they got older prospects which won't align with their timeline anyways. Dumb

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Not really impressed with who the O's have targeted with both trades. Yankees have some interesting young guys like Medina and Garcia. Instead they got older prospects which won't align with their timeline anyways. Dumb

I don’t disagree necessarily from a big picture standpoint, but this is a significantly better return than what the Mets got for Familia (who has been the better pitcher hands down this year).  I think the Orioles did ok here when viewing the deal in isolation.

[iWiN4PreP]

All three of those guys would’ve had to be protected on the 40-man, which the Yanks don’t have room to do.  Good trade for both clubs.

[Dam8610]

Tate is a real prospect. Bodes well for the Sox efforts to trade Soria.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

51 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

Tate is a real prospect. Bodes well for the Sox efforts to trade Soria.

As is Cody Carroll

[Jack Parkman]

55 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

Tate is a real prospect. Bodes well for the Sox efforts to trade Soria.

Britton and Soria are nowhere close to on the same level. Most of the relievers traded aren't going to return real prospects. I hope that in the near future teams hold their players at the deadline rather than trade them for a whole lot of nothing. With the way contending teams are being tightwads with their prospects, I hope sellers decide collectively that if you aren't trading something decent, we're not trading them. I'd like to see the 2019 deadline where nothing happens unless teams start parting with prospects of value again. Get in a staring match until someone blinks. Fan/media pressure will make the contending teams blink. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[GreenSox]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Britton and Soria are nowhere close to on the same level. 

Only if you consider 2016 and before to be Britton's level.  Which it may be - he's only thrown 15 innings this season there may be reason to believe he will return to that level.
I also read that all 3 prospects will be Rule 5 eligible.  Yanks know how to deal from surplus.

[Sockin]

6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Britton and Soria are nowhere close to on the same level. Most of the relievers traded aren't going to return real prospects. I hope that in the near future teams hold their players at the deadline rather than trade them for a whole lot of nothing. With the way contending teams are being tightwads with their prospects, I hope sellers decide collectively that if you aren't trading something decent, we're not trading them. I'd like to see the 2019 deadline where nothing happens unless teams start parting with prospects of value again. Get in a staring match until someone blinks. Fan/media pressure will make the contending teams blink. 

I feel like the problem with this is fans want stuff but also don't want to part with prospects either. I don't think there would be that much pressure.

[wrathofhahn]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Britton and Soria are nowhere close to on the same level. Most of the relievers traded aren't going to return real prospects. I hope that in the near future teams hold their players at the deadline rather than trade them for a whole lot of nothing. With the way contending teams are being tightwads with their prospects, I hope sellers decide collectively that if you aren't trading something decent, we're not trading them. I'd like to see the 2019 deadline where nothing happens unless teams start parting with prospects of value again. Get in a staring match until someone blinks. Fan/media pressure will make the contending teams blink. 

Soria been much better then Britton. He also has another year of control

[Jack Parkman]

26 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Soria been much better then Britton. He also has another year of control

????

Britton has 15 innings this year and is coming off injury and 3 seasons of absolute dominance. Also, I don't think anyone will pick up Soria's 10M option, no matter how well he's pitched this year. For all intents and purposes, Soria is a rental too. I know a 2.89 ERA isn't an 0.54 ERA, but it is still really good, even for a reliever. Britton has shown himself to be among the best relievers in the game. You can't say that Soria will get anywhere close to that return. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

????

Britton has 15 innings this year and is coming off injury and 3 seasons of absolute dominance. Also, I don't think anyone will pick up Soria's 10M option, no matter how well he's pitched this year. For all intents and purposes, Soria is a rental too. 

Britton has had some control issues the past two seasons and there's an elevated injury risk with him. His strikeout rate is also down quite a bit from 2016. After two injury plagued seasons and at the no longer tender age of 30, this isn't the same Britton we witnessed in 2016. I am not sure why people continue to value him like it is. I think his trade value is far more comparable to Soria than people are crediting. If he were still performing at 2016 levels, you would have seen a much better return. Tate is a guy that I had targeted for the Sox in a Soria trade and I think someone of his stature is feasible but the Sox wouldn't get more than a lotto ticket as a second piece, if anything at all.

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

????

Britton has 15 innings this year and is coming off injury and 3 seasons of absolute dominance. Also, I don't think anyone will pick up Soria's 10M option, no matter how well he's pitched this year. For all intents and purposes, Soria is a rental too. I know a 2.89 ERA isn't an 0.54 ERA, but it is still really good, even for a reliever. Britton has showed himself to be among the best relievers in the game. You can't say that Soria will get anywhere close to that return. 

Britton wasn’t exactly dominant last year and his performance over the past 15 months is reflected in the return the Orioles got.  Elite relievers, even rentals, typically go for more than a Tate like prospect.  That’s not to say Soria is worth more (he’s not), but I don’t think the gap is quite as large as you believe.

[wrathofhahn]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

????

Britton has 15 innings this year and is coming off injury and 3 seasons of absolute dominance. Also, I don't think anyone will pick up Soria's 10M option, no matter how well he's pitched this year. For all intents and purposes, Soria is a rental too. I know a 2.89 ERA isn't an 0.54 ERA, but it is still really good, even for a reliever. Britton has showed himself to be among the best relievers in the game. You can't say that Soria will get anywhere close to that return. 

You act like it matters how he was pitching in 2016. He's a rental the Yankees don't have the time to fix him. He's had a mini scoreless streak where he looked better.

Last two years his 3.70 FIP, 1.472 WHIP

 

[Jack Parkman]

31 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Britton wasn’t exactly dominant last year and his performance over the past 15 months is reflected in the return the Orioles got.  Elite relievers, even rentals, typically go for more than a Tate like prospect.  That’s not to say Soria is worth more (he’s not), but I don’t think the gap is quite as large as you believe.

Not anymore. Those years of cost control are too valuable. The days of teams moving T100 prospects at the deadline for players that don't have at least 2.5 seasons of control and a track record are over. 

This is the market value for a rental, for top players available.  We don't have to like it, but that is the way it is.  This is why it was imperative that the Sox picked a lane in the 16-17 offseason. If they waited until now, they wouldn't they wouldn't be able to sniff a Moncada or Kopech, let alone both, in a Sale trade. It almost isn't worth it to trade established MLB talent for prospects anymore. I think pure baseball trades are going to make a return. Scouting is as good as it ever has been. Year after year, the return for top talent at the deadline and in the offseason becomes worse and worse.  Eventually, something has to give on the contending side. These teams can't be allowed to have their cake and eat it too. It will eventually become bad for the league. In the meantime, scouting amateur talent becomes incredibly important, especially for small and mid market teams. Look at what the Marlins got for their players this offseason. Yelich should have had a better return than Eaton, but he didn't. The Sox don't get Rutherford last year if they don't include Kahnle. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[steveno89]

13 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Not anymore. Those years of cost control are too valuable. The days of teams moving T100 prospects at the deadline for players that don't have at least 2.5 seasons of control and a track record are over. 

This is the market value for a rental, for top players available.  We don't have to like it, but that is the way it is.  This is why it was imperative that the Sox picked a lane in the 16-17 offseason. If they waited until now, they wouldn't they wouldn't be able to sniff a Moncada or Kopech, let alone both, in a Sale trade. It almost isn't worth it to trade established MLB talent for prospects anymore. I think pure baseball trades are going to make a return. Scouting is as good as it ever has been. Year after year, the return for top talent at the deadline and in the offseason becomes worse and worse.  Eventually, something has to give on the contending side. These teams can't be allowed to have their cake and eat it too. It will eventually become bad for the league. In the meantime, scouting amateur talent becomes incredibly important, especially for small and mid market teams. Look at what the Marlins got for their players this offseason. Yelich should have had a better return than Eaton, but he didn't. 

I don't necessarily agree with that. Top prospects get traded all the time, it is just a matter of what the deal is. Rental players will always have a lower cost than multiple years of control, but given the right situation you absolutely could see a club go all in on a major piece like the Cubs with Chapman. 

The Yankees had a major 40 man roster crunch coming up and would likely have to leave multiple prospects unprotected in the rule 5 draft. It was smart to cash in on them now, rather than likely losing then in a few months for nothing. 

[Chicago White Sox]

15 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Not anymore. Those years of cost control are too valuable. The days of teams moving T100 prospects at the deadline for players that don't have at least 2.5 seasons of control and a track record are over. 

This is the market value for a rental, for top players available.  We don't have to like it, but that is the way it is.  This is why it was imperative that the Sox picked a lane in the 16-17 offseason. If they waited until now, they wouldn't they wouldn't be able to sniff a Moncada or Kopech, let alone both, in a Sale trade. It almost isn't worth it to trade established MLB talent for prospects anymore. I think pure baseball trades are going to make a return. Scouting is as good as it ever has been. Year after year, the return for top talent at the deadline and in the offseason becomes worse and worse.  Eventually, something has to give on the contending side. These teams can't be allowed to have their cake and eat it too. It will eventually become bad for the league. In the meantime, scouting amateur talent becomes incredibly important, especially for small and mid market teams. Look at what the Marlins got for their players this offseason. Yelich should have had a better return than Eaton, but he didn't. The Sox don't get Rutherford last year if they don't include Kahnle. 

I’m not sure I agree.  The Dodgers have moved top 100 prospects for rentals three straight years (Machado, Darvish, & Hill/Reddick).  The Cubs moved Torres for Chapman.  The problem is there haven’t been a ton of impact talents moved as rentals in recent years, as teams are trying to move guys with at least a 1 1/3 of team control.  I think teams would be lining up with offered centered around a top 100 prospect if the old Britton was available.

[wrathofhahn]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Not anymore. Those years of cost control are too valuable. The days of teams moving T100 prospects at the deadline for players that don't have at least 2.5 seasons of control and a track record are over. 

This is the market value for a rental, for top players available.  We don't have to like it, but that is the way it is.  This is why it was imperative that the Sox picked a lane in the 16-17 offseason. If they waited until now, they wouldn't they wouldn't be able to sniff a Moncada or Kopech, let alone both, in a Sale trade.

Dillion Tate is a fringe top 100 guy.

 

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m not sure I agree.  The Dodgers have moved top 100 prospects for rentals three straight years (Machado, Darvish, & Hill/Reddick).  The Cubs moved Torres for Chapman.  The problem is there haven’t been a ton of impact talents moved as rentals in recent years, as teams are trying to move guys with at least a 1 1/3 of team control.  I think teams would be lining up with offered centered around a top 100 prospect if the old Britton was available.

This and smart teams that are rebuilding move their top guys before they are in that position because they recognize they'll get a better offer.

For example regardless how Machado played they would have gotten more two-three years ago. Same for Britton. Orioles miscalculated their window however. Hard to come back from that

[steveno89]

16 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Dillion Tate is a fringe top 100 guy.

 

This and smart teams that are rebuilding move their top guys before they are in that position because they recognize they'll get a better offer.

For example regardless how Machado played they would have gotten more two-three years ago. Same for Britton. Orioles miscalculated their window however. Hard to come back from that

Tate is a solid prospect, but I wouldn't even put him in my top 150 right now. He has dealt with multiple injuries and very inconsistent stuff since being a top draft pick in 2015. The upside is a #4/5 starter, but there remains a significant chance he ends up in the bullpen. He's already 24 years old, so 2019 will largely be a make or break season for him. 

[Jack Parkman]

45 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m not sure I agree.  The Dodgers have moved top 100 prospects for rentals three straight years (Machado, Darvish, & Hill/Reddick).  The Cubs moved Torres for Chapman.  The problem is there haven’t been a ton of impact talents moved as rentals in recent years, as teams are trying to move guys with at least a 1 1/3 of team control.  I think teams would be lining up with offered centered around a top 100 prospect if the old Britton was available.

I think the Dodgers/Cubs situations are more of the exception, rather than the rule. Kershaw  has the opt-out after this year, The Dodgers payroll is outrageous and they lost one of the best young SS in the game in Seager for the season. This is pretty much their last chance, IMO, regardless of whether Kershaw opts out or not. He's injured way too much and probably won't be far and away the best starter in baseball anymore. They've spent way too much money to strike out completely on their first championship in 30 years. The Cubs hadn't won a WS in a century and and nearly an additional decade. They had an obvious hole at closer and if they didn't make a move on one, and they blew their best chance to win since actually pulling it off in 1908, Epstein and Hoyer would have been tarred and feathered, and given a one way ticket out of Chicago. No amount of "the window is just opening" would have consoled Cub fans. 

I think that this is the way it should work, but whatever. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[beautox]

6 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Britton has had some control issues the past two seasons and there's an elevated injury risk with him. His strikeout rate is also down quite a bit from 2016. After two injury plagued seasons and at the no longer tender age of 30, this isn't the same Britton we witnessed in 2016. I am not sure why people continue to value him like it is. I think his trade value is far more comparable to Soria than people are crediting. If he were still performing at 2016 levels, you would have seen a much better return. Tate is a guy that I had targeted for the Sox in a Soria trade and I think someone of his stature is feasible but the Sox wouldn't get more than a lotto ticket as a second piece, if anything at all.

Exactly, Soria if the sox ship money and pick up the freight for his option has roughly 15-18M in surplus value if you think he is a 1.75-2.25 fWAR reliever and has shown success both his year and last. 15-18M in surplus value is roughly a top 100(70-100) arm or bat when you leverage the deadline as a tax. Soria alone should be bring back more than Britton who hasn't done anything since '16.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, beautox said:

Exactly, Soria if the sox ship money and pick up the freight for his option has roughly 15-18M in surplus value if you think he is a 1.75-2.25 fWAR reliever and has shown success both his year and last. 15-18M in surplus value is roughly a top 100(70-100) arm or bat when you leverage the deadline as a tax. Soria alone should be bring back more than Britton who hasn't done anything since '16.

Problem is the option is of the mutual kind which isn’t worth much.  And while Britton hasn’t been great for some time, GMs can still dream of a return to form for him and that’s makes him a bit more valuable than Soria IMO.

[ChiSox59]

Some people are here are going to be really disappointed in what Soria returns.  

I have low expectations, but hope to be surprised.

I'd be shocked if the Sox added a top 15 prospect to their farm before the end of this season.  

[southsider2k5]

15 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Some people are here are going to be really disappointed in what Soria returns.  

I have low expectations, but hope to be surprised.

I'd be shocked if the Sox added a top 15 prospect to their farm before the end of this season.  

This is a +1 post.