Fulmer's New Bullpen Role

[footlongcomiskeydog]

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Substitute Moncada for Fulmer.

I'm not aware of anyone calling for Moncada to get demoted to AAA or regulated to a super sub role like Leury Garcia. 

The issues with Moncada are that he is looking like a slightly above average player at this point in his career and not the super star that he was projected to be. He could always become that superstar and is gonna get thousands of at bats in a Sox uniform to prove it.

I watched Avi Garcia bumble around in right field for 3 plus years before he showed anything. Why shouldn't Fulmer get the same chance in a throwaway year?

[footlongcomiskeydog]

19 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

He got a lot more starts at AAA, and he wasn't effective there, either.

So what? He isn't blocking anyone there at the moment. Let the kid continue to start at Charlotte. This is a throwaway year anyway.

[BlackSox13]

20 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

He got a lot more starts at AAA, and he wasn't effective there, either.

Exactly. The Sox had briefly moved Fulmer to the pen last year but Rodon got injured so Fulmer was quickly back in the rotation. He performed well in September last year so he got another shot this year as a starter. The Sox have been patient with him but he needed GPS to find home plate and with Stephens seemingly ready for a call-up and possibly Kopech as well, there is no room for Fulmer as a starter which is why he was told his best chance of getting back to the big league is as a reliever. 

[BlackSox13]

11 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

I'm not aware of anyone calling for Moncada to get demoted to AAA or regulated to a super sub role like Leury Garcia. 

The issues with Moncada are that he is looking like a slightly above average player at this point in his career and not the super star that he was projected to be. He could always become that superstar and is gonna get thousands of at bats in a Sox uniform to prove it.

I watched Avi Garcia bumble around in right field for 3 plus years before he showed anything. Why shouldn't Fulmer get the same chance in a throwaway year?

There's been a few people saying Moncada should have been demoted in the Moncada thread. Too many pages to search through to find the quotes but it was mentioned by a few.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

6 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said:

Exactly. The Sox had briefly moved Fulmer to the pen last year but Rodon got injured so Fulmer was quickly back in the rotation. He performed well in September last year so he got another shot this year as a starter. The Sox have been patient with him but he needed GPS to find home plate and with Stephens seemingly ready for a call-up and possibly Kopech as well, there is no room for Fulmer as a starter which is why he was told his best chance of getting back to the big league is as a reliever. 

The kid has been up and down like a yo-yo since the Sox drafted him. He was also rushed to the big leagues and that may have screwed his development some.

I just don't see the harm in letting him continue to start at Charlotte. Who is he blocking there at the moment? 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

14 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

So what? He isn't blocking anyone there at the moment. Let the kid continue to start at Charlotte. This is a throwaway year anyway.

First, his path to a major league rotation spot is blocked for the foreseeable future.  He’s behind a good 7/8 guys and there are more guys that will be passing him in the near future.

Second, his trade value is now pretty much tarnished until he shows himself to be a useful major leaguer.  The best path for him is seeing if he can respond positively to pitching in relief and eventually doing so at the major league level.

[Replacement Level Poster]

I hope this works out for the kid. This is probably unofficially his last shot to stick in the organization’s future plans provided he can perform consistently. At this point I’m not confident enough he can throw enough strikes to be a high leverage bullpen piece though.

[BlackSox13]

2 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

The kid has been up and down like a yo-yo since the Sox drafted him. He was also rushed to the big leagues and that may have screwed his development some.

I just don't see the harm in letting him continue to start at Charlotte. Who is he blocking there at the moment? 

 

Have you watched his starts? It's painful watching him walk the world. I agree he was rushed but he's had sufficient time to show he can find the strike zone as a starter but has not done so. It's not about him blocking anyone at Charlotte as a starter, it's about getting him acclimated to his new role as a reliever and possibly back to Chicago.

[BlackSox13]

2 minutes ago, Replacement Level Poster said:

I hope this works out for the kid. This is probably unofficially his last shot to stick in the organization’s future plans provided he can perform consistently. At this point I’m not confident enough he can throw enough strikes to be a high leverage bullpen piece though.

I might reaching here but looking a year down the road if the Sox can establish Fulmer as a solid reliever between now and next July, he could be quite valuable. 

[Wanne]

20 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

The kid has been up and down like a yo-yo since the Sox drafted him. He was also rushed to the big leagues and that may have screwed his development some.

I just don't see the harm in letting him continue to start at Charlotte. Who is he blocking there at the moment? 

 

If he's effective as a bullpen piece right now...and he's satisfied with that roll and helping the team...who gives a shit?  No sense trying to ram a square peg into a round hole.  Nice to see him gain a little confidence back instead of continually getting hammered as a starter.  Many predicted this as his fate anyway....

[ron883]

Sorry but I question the baseball acumen of anybody who equates Fulmer to Moncada

[southsider2k5]

51 minutes ago, Hot FiRe said:

Sorry but I question the baseball acumen of anybody who equates Fulmer to Moncada

And I question the idea that you quit on Moncada, but not Fulmer.

[SCCWS]

51 minutes ago, Hot FiRe said:

Sorry but I question the baseball acumen of anybody who equates Fulmer to Moncada

I don't think the poster was. I think his point was 24 is kind of young to give up on him as a starter.  Most posters feel Moncada at 23 should be allowed to continue at his current pace. For example, should the Sox tell Moncada to only bat LF since he has had major struggles from the right side like Fulmer did as a starter. I think that is valid. But the good thing in all this, is Fulmer seems sold on this so that is certainly a positive. 

[BlackSox13]

Two things. 1) Fulmer is a pitcher, Moncada is a hitter. Apples and oranges. 2) Fulmer was never the high level prospect Moncada was. 

Many scouts speculated Fulmer would end up a reliever and the Sox took a chance and tried him as a starter. It didn't work out so they have moved on. Many of us fans trust the Sox when it comes to pitching so why question this move?

[ChiSoxJon]

13 hours ago, pcq said:

Danish also improving his stock in the pen and could have a spot next season. 

Would like to see him up after Soria, Avilan, and Cedeno are moved

Well-earned

[he gone.]

For those posting he should have had more chances starting - do you ever think the Sox gave him the choice? My guess is that they've made it clear for quite some time and gave him the benefit of the doubt to try starting. I think it just came to a point of enough is enough and lets see how this thing plays out. I think he realized his best chance of being an MLB player is via the pen.

[TheFutureIsNear]

The issue with giving Fulmer more time is that he hasn't had any kind of prolonged success at any point in his career so far. We're talking about 370 innings across pretty much every level without being able to consistently get batters out. That's kind of a problem. Moving him into the bullpen is a necessary panic move to jump start his career. 

[oldsox]

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 8:55 PM, southsider2k5 said:

And I question the idea that you quit on Moncada, but not Fulmer.

And I quit on Fulmer, but not Moncada.  I can't see Fulmer taking a 40 man roster spot next year

[tray]

I get why Moncada was mentioned. There are a lot of prospects and players that fans fall in love with so to speak, but then end up as average players who never fulfill the high expectations fans had for them. So, consider the possibility that Fulmer becomes a middle inning long reliever, not even a set-up 8th inning reliever. Is that what fans expected of a high first round Draft pick? Maybe some would be happy with that but not me, not when the Sox need some star players for this rebuild. The Sox cannot blow high first round Draft picks for average major league talent.

This may come off as sarcastic and I don't mean it that way but the thought came to mind last night watching the 9th that Davidson has better stuff than Fulmer.

 

 

[Richie]

On 7/24/2018 at 7:09 PM, [email protected] said:

I'm not aware of anyone calling for Moncada to get demoted to AAA or regulated to a super sub role like Leury Garcia. 

The issues with Moncada are that he is looking like a slightly above average player at this point in his career and not the super star that he was projected to be. He could always become that superstar and is gonna get thousands of at bats in a Sox uniform to prove it.

I watched Avi Garcia bumble around in right field for 3 plus years before he showed anything. Why shouldn't Fulmer get the same chance in a throwaway year?

Because he was so absolutely terrible that you could not possibly justify having him on a Major League roster and pitching him every 5 days. When there are other guys waiting for an opportunity that are more deserving. Fulmer did not just perform inconsistently. He was not simply "underwhelming" or "failing to live up to expectations". Continuing to trot him out every 5 days would have been an absolute abomination and unfair to those waiting in the minors who provided a better option to the team. 

Then, he went to AAA and was horrible at that level. 

There is a huge... and I mean... a HUUUUUUUGE difference between the Avi/Yoan vs Fulmer situations. Avi early on and Yoan right now are/were about average or slightly above average MLB players. Showing bursts of their potential for small stretches. Fulmer demonstrated the prowess of a semi-professional beer league pitcher out there for most of his outings with the big club. To give some perspective... Lucas Giolito is currently at the bottom of the league in just about everything to do with qualifying statistics for Major League pitchers. Carson Fulmer's ERA is two full runs worse than his. His FIP is 1.20 worse. 

Do you want more perspective? Carson Fulmer's AAA numbers are as bad as Giolito's big league numbers. Worse in multiple areas. His issues with command and walks actually increased in the minors. 

You are equating ALL prospects who didn't live up to expectations as equals and lumping them into the same basket. That is a fallacious way of looking at this. There are varying degrees of failing upon entering the big leagues. Moncada's had a 1.7 WAR in each of his two seasons with the White Sox. Avi's first three seasons hovered around replacement level. They were also marred by long stints on the DL.

The equivalent to Fulmer would be if Moncada came out and hit .130 the first few months of the season. Just incomprehensibly bad (like Fulmer with an 8+ ERA) He'd have been demoted... Then, if he kept doing that in AAA (like Fulmer has as a SP) we'd be writing him off. That simple. 

Fulmer earned this demotion. He never ONCE demonstrated that he had the ability to be a consistent Major League starting pitcher.  They're trying to salvage a wasted first round pick. That's what this boils down to. 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2018 by Richie

[Jake]

Avi was not an average MLB player prior to his breakout last year. He was a slightly below average hitter who was playing defense badly.

There would be no harm having Fulmer be a 5.50 ERA pitcher in AAA at this point, but they can do what they want to do with him.

[Richie]

4 hours ago, Jake said:

Avi was not an average MLB player prior to his breakout last year. He was a slightly below average hitter who was playing defense badly.

There would be no harm having Fulmer be a 5.50 ERA pitcher in AAA at this point, but they can do what they want to do with him.

His offensive WAR was above replacement level every year with us... but whatever you say. lol

Also, even being a slightly below average player at his position - is light years better than what Fulmer was as a starting pitcher. A complete and utter travesty. 

There would be no harm having Fulmer be a 5.50 ERA pitcher in AAA at this point

What? I'm sorry, but... what? Sure there would be. It would be a waste of time. We know he's not a starter. It's MORE than time to bite that bullet. Now we get to work in developing him as a reliever. 

By your logic... it doesn't matter what we do anyway. Right? Let's bring back Jacob May and play him everyday! How can you give up on him? Sure, he hit .059 for a month in the bigs! What does it hurt, though? Right? Nothing matters... just let the losers keep flailing. Let's not adjust... no. That would be insane. Let's keep trying the same f'n thing over... and over. That will surely get us somewhere THIS time. 

 

That's your Fulmer comparison... Jacob May. Except May actually faired better when he went back down to AAA. Avi/Moncada? Ha... 

I'm honestly sorry for the b*tchy attitude. This isn't like me... but the lack of perspective on Fulmer by some of you on this board. My god... look through his numbers and his game logs at AAA and with the White Sox over this past season. It's over, Johnny. F'ing OVER. There is no comparison to how bad he's been. He has made Yoan Moncada look like the coming of Christ. When it comes to hyped up prospects.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

1 hour ago, Richie said:

His offensive WAR was above replacement level every year with us... but whatever you say. lol

Also, even being a slightly below average player at his position - is light years better than what Fulmer was as a starting pitcher. A complete and utter travesty. 

There would be no harm having Fulmer be a 5.50 ERA pitcher in AAA at this point

What? I'm sorry, but... what? Sure there would be. It would be a waste of time. We know he's not a starter. It's MORE than time to bite that bullet. Now we get to work in developing him as a reliever. 

By your logic... it doesn't matter what we do anyway. Right? Let's bring back Jacob May and play him everyday! How can you give up on him? Sure, he hit .059 for a month in the bigs! What does it hurt, though? Right? Nothing matters... just let the losers keep flailing. Let's not adjust... no. That would be insane. Let's keep trying the same f'n thing over... and over. That will surely get us somewhere THIS time. 

 

That's your Fulmer comparison... Jacob May. Except May actually faired better when he went back down to AAA. Avi/Moncada? Ha... 

I'm honestly sorry for the b*tchy attitude. This isn't like me... but the lack of perspective on Fulmer by some of you on this board. My god... look through his numbers and his game logs at AAA and with the White Sox over this past season. It's over, Johnny. F'ing OVER. There is no comparison to how bad he's been. He has made Yoan Moncada look like the coming of Christ. When it comes to hyped up prospects.

Damn dude. Take a chill pill before you explode.

I hope you have this much angst for the horrible scout and/or Sox personnel that recommended drafting Fulmer with a first round pick. That scout sat through hours of Vandy baseball and couldn't tell that Buehler was the better pitcher. That is failing horribly at your job. 

At this point there is probably no hope for Carson. The Sox should just DFA and move on I suppose.

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

7 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Damn dude. Take a chill pill before you explode.

I hope you have this much angst for the horrible scout and/or Sox personnel that recommended drafting Fulmer with a first round pick. That scout sat through hours of Vandy baseball and couldn't tell that Buehler was the better pitcher. That is failing horribly at your job. 

At this point there is probably no hope for Carson. The Sox should just DFA and move on I suppose.

 

 

lol...WTF does DFAing accomplish exactly?  There is literally no harm in seeing if he can work as a reliever.

[GreenSox]

His numbers as a reliever are no better than as a starter.

Send him down to A ball and start over with him. Un teach him that intra-windup glove-pump he picked up somewhere that he didn't have at Vanderbilt. 
Find a coach who worked with Clevenger - he too has a rushed delivery with a lot of moving parts.