40 Man Roster Issues

[BamaDoc]

credit to chitownsportsfan for finding this link.  This is a pretty amazing resource, wow.  This was in the Soria trade discussion and since several people have brought this up, I thought it was worth puling out.  For 2018, it won't be hard to make room for prospects.  For 2019, I count at least 9 I would want to protect.  So this year should be okay.  A few people seemed to not understand, all your MLB players (25 man and non 60 day disabled list) are included in the 40.  All 60 day disabled list players at the end of year must be put back onto the 40 man or waived.

[BamaDoc]

Ok here is the exercise in rosterbation.  The link has updated post trade so 40 is at 39.  Free Agents to be: Shields, M Gonzales, Santiago.  36.   Have to add back Wellington Castillo 37.  Likely cut:  Volstad, Garneau, Skole, LaMarre, Farquahar(spring invite), Engel, Minaya,   30 so ten openings with Tilson/Cordell on the roster but barely.  Tilson missed a year and younger and better center fielder.  Cordell probably gets a Sept call up to have a last chance.

Easy adds: Zavala, Kopech, Stephens, Adams, Cease, Medieros.  36  

That means you keep four of Guerrero, Danish, at AAA currently and could get trials this year. AA players Polo, Burr, Mendick, Ruiz.  At A+  Forbes

So there will be some decisions.  Last year people were very unhappy when Guerrero was exposed.  2019 will be a lot tougher. 

[BamaDoc]

2019 Currently pretty easy guys you want to keep:  Hamilton,  Burdi, Collins, Booker, Call, Hansen, Dunning, Flores, Lambert, Rutherford.  Bunch of fringe guys like Zangari, Elliott, Villa, Morrison, Foster, Puckett,  Fisher will be under a lot of pressure.

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

2019 Currently pretty easy guys you want to keep:  Hamilton,  Burdi, Collins, Booker, Call, Hansen, Dunning, Flores, Lambert, Rutherford.  Bunch of fringe guys like Zangari, Elliott, Villa, Morrison, Foster, Puckett,  Fisher will be under a lot of pressure.

2019 is when the real log-jam will hit.  I'm not overly concerned about this offseason as there is still plenty of filler on the 40 man.

[southsider2k5]

23 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

2019 is when the real log-jam will hit.  I'm not overly concerned about this offseason as there is still plenty of filler on the 40 man.

This. After the season ends there are plenty of 4A types who can go.

[Chicago White Sox]

So I figured it might be worth going through the exercise of looking at our 40 man roster prior to the next Rule 5 draft and mapping out the necessary protections.  As shown below, I get to a 39 man roster (leaving one spot open) and still have nine spots or so that could be opened up if we were to find upgrades.  I really don’t think the 40 man is going to be a problem this year.  2019 is when things get complicated IMO.

Removed

• Skole
• Garneau
• LaMarre
• Shields
• Avilan
• Cedeno
• Gomez
• Santiago
• Clarkin

Pitchers (19)

• Rodon
• Lopez
• Giolito
• Covey
• Fry
• Vieira
• Danish (removable)
• Minaya (removable)
• Jones
• Fulmer
• Bummer
• Kopech
• Stephens
• Adams
• Frare
• Cease
• Medeiros
• Burr
• Hamilton

Positional (20)

• Moncada
• Anderson
• Sanchez
• Abreu
• A. Garcia
• L. Garcia
• Delmonico (removable)
• Engel (removable)
• Palka (removable)
• Davidson (removable)
• Castillo
• Narvaez
• Smith (removable)
• Jimenez
• Cordell
• Tilson (removable)
• Rondon (removable)
• Basabe
• Adolfo
• Zavala

 Unprotected

• Clarkin
• Guerrero
• Mendick
• Forbes

[BamaDoc]

Are you envisioning Avilan, Ceddeno and Gomez being traded?  Don't think all would be.  I agree on most of your removables.  I think Tilson as a CF to avoid rushing a prospect gets half a year, Rondon as one of few ready middle infield depth and maybe Palka hang.  I think you could get something for Smith as a backup catcher in the off season.  Cordell gets Sept to prove something.  I would probably keep Ruiz.  Clarkin? 

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

Are you envisioning Avilan, Ceddeno and Gomez being traded?  Don't think all would be.  I agree on most of your removables.  I think Tilson as a CF to avoid rushing a prospect gets half a year, Rondon as one of few ready middle infield depth and maybe Palka hang.  I think you could get something for Smith as a backup catcher in the off season.  Cordell gets Sept to prove something.  I would probably keep Ruiz.  Clarkin? 

Is Ruiz eligible?  I must of missed him then, as I would definitely protect him.

And yes, I think Avilan & Cedeno are traded & Gomez leaves as a free agent.

As for the removables, I’m not suggesting we should get rid of them, but between the nine of them we should be able to open enough spots for additions while protecting all our key prospects.

[ChiSox59]

21 hours ago, BamaDoc said:

Are you envisioning Avilan, Ceddeno and Gomez being traded?  Don't think all would be.  I agree on most of your removables.  I think Tilson as a CF to avoid rushing a prospect gets half a year, Rondon as one of few ready middle infield depth and maybe Palka hang.  I think you could get something for Smith as a backup catcher in the off season.  Cordell gets Sept to prove something.  I would probably keep Ruiz.  Clarkin? 

I highly doubt Avilan or Cedeno are on the roster next year.  With Fry, Bummer, Frare, the Sox have plenty of lefty reliever options for next season's pen. 

If they aren't moved in the next 30 hours, they probably will be in August or the off season. 

Gomez is a FA after this season, I do believe. 

[Dick Allen]

We can only hope the White Sox have too many good players for their 40 man roster. Right now, I can name 12 or 13 who no one would blink if they were DFA'd.  2019 is a long way away roster-wise right now. Guys will either play their way on or off, or the Sox will trade a couple.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Dick Allen

[GreenSox]

If they can't trade Avilan or Cedeno, they just have to let them go.  I

On 7/27/2018 at 9:10 AM, BamaDoc said:

Ok here is the exercise in rosterbation.  The link has updated post trade so 40 is at 39.  Free Agents to be: Shields, M Gonzales, Santiago.  36.   Have to add back Wellington Castillo 37.  Likely cut:  Volstad, Garneau, Skole, LaMarre, Farquahar(spring invite), Engel, Minaya,   30 so ten openings with Tilson/Cordell on the roster but barely.  Tilson missed a year and younger and better center fielder.  Cordell probably gets a Sept call up to have a last chance.

Easy adds: Zavala, Kopech, Stephens, Adams, Cease, Medieros.  36  

That means you keep four of Guerrero, Danish, at AAA currently and could get trials this year. AA players Polo, Burr, Mendick, Ruiz.  At A+  Forbes

So there will be some decisions.  Last year people were very unhappy when Guerrero was exposed.  2019 will be a lot tougher. 

Danish is getting his trial right now; my guess is the Sox already decided no on Guerro, but maybe he gets a trial soon - he's pitched reasonably well.  Burr had a promotion despite walking 4.5 per 9 so I figured it was filler and thus I'd say he won't be protected.
Absolutely protect Ruiz  - he's pitched great this year and he's young.
Mendick, Polo and everybodyy's favorite prospect from 3 years ago, Michalczewski - probably not.

Edited July 30, 2018 by GreenSox

[BamaDoc]

Bumping up.  Fegan has an article up at the Athletic.  Think subscription may be required but it is a bit updated and all of us who responded above are pretty much right on the money.  He has a lot of the obvious and pretty much the same bubble types.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

1 hour ago, BamaDoc said:

Bumping up.  Fegan has an article up at the Athletic.  Think subscription may be required but it is a bit updated and all of us who responded above are pretty much right on the money.  He has a lot of the obvious and pretty much the same bubble types.

Good article, but 1 problem I have with it is it doesn’t take into account potential additions by the Sox. Sox will be involved in the FA market - to what degree and how successful is another story. But that will surely affect available positions as well.

[BamaDoc]

For the purposes of the Rule 5 draft(Dec), there are usually not a lot of signings by then.  May be why in his article Fegan went to 37.

[Y2Jimmy0]

This started with a conversation I was having on twitter with Fornelli and Nick from BPSS. They were saying that Ian Hamilton should be in the majors. While I agree that he's capable and probably deserving, I doubt we see him this year. Has nothing to do with service time though, just 40-man roster space. These players need to be protected for the Rule-5: Kopech, Cease, Adams, Stephens, Zavala, Burr, Frare, Ruiz, and Medeiros. Hamilton doesn't need to be added to the 40 yet so there's no reason to use a spot on him for now. That was my whole point. The roster gymnastics here should be fun. 

[Jose Abreu]

Even after reading Fegan's piece I really don't see this as a problem yet. Ridding of Danish, Farquhar, Gomez, Gonzalez, Shields, Santiago, Garneau, Smith, Skole, Engel, LaMarre, Tilson, and Davidson would leave more than enough room for us to protect those who need protection. Then there are the guys like Avilan, Cedeno, and Avi Garcia who are fine players but might be traded. The 9 names listed in the post above probably all need the protection aside from Medeiros, but it probably wouldn't hurt to add him too.

There's still just so much garbage on the current 40 man that this seems like a non-issue to me. 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Jose Abreu

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

This started with a conversation I was having on twitter with Fornelli and Nick from BPSS. They were saying that Ian Hamilton should be in the majors. While I agree that he's capable and probably deserving, I doubt we see him this year. Has nothing to do with service time though, just 40-man roster space. These players need to be protected for the Rule-5: Kopech, Cease, Adams, Stephens, Zavala, Burr, Frare, Ruiz, and Medeiros. Hamilton doesn't need to be added to the 40 yet so there's no reason to use a spot on him for now. That was my whole point. The roster gymnastics here should be fun. 

That is a really good throught.  I hadn't thought of the roster spots as they relate to Rule 5.  Any extra players could mean the loss of one of the other guys.

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

Even after reading Fegan's piece I really don't see this as a problem yet. Ridding of Danish, Farquhar, Gomez, Gonzalez, Garneau, Smith, Skole, Engel, LaMarre, Tilson, and Davidson would leave more than enough room for us to protect those who need protection. Then there are the guys like Avilan, Cedeno, and Avi Garcia who are fine players but might be traded. The 9 names listed in the post above probably all need the protection aside from Medeiros, but it probably wouldn't hurt to add him too.

There's still just so much garbage on the current 40 man that this seems like a non-issue to me. 

It's easy for you and I to sit here and say to discard random guys like it's a video game. I doubt the Sox want to just dump all those players though to add a guy that they don't need to add yet while they're trying to lose on purpose. 

[Jose Abreu]

1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

It's easy for you and I to sit here and say to discard random guys like it's a video game. I doubt the Sox want to just dump all those players though to add a guy that they don't need to add yet while they're trying to lose on purpose. 

That wasn't an attempt at me to add Hamilton but rather to protect the guys for this offseason. I now understand the value of waiting until next season for Hamilton- but what I meant is that I don't think it will be too difficult to find guys to cut in order to protect the Kopech/Cease/Frare/Ruiz/Zavala etc. guys. Not this season, at least. 

[BamaDoc]

This year a few calls to make but in 2019 there are another ten pretty easy adds

2019 Currently pretty easy guys you want to keep:  Hamilton,  Burdi, Collins, Booker, Call, Hansen, Dunning, Flores, Lambert, Rutherford.

So opening another ten spots in a year will require some creativity.  3 for 2 trades or trade borderline guys for guys who are a year or two from 40 man issues.  We also will be out of international bonus penalty limit of 300k so we could even add some cap room.

[Chicago White Sox]

9 hours ago, BamaDoc said:

This year a few calls to make but in 2019 there are another ten pretty easy adds

2019 Currently pretty easy guys you want to keep:  Hamilton,  Burdi, Collins, Booker, Call, Hansen, Dunning, Flores, Lambert, Rutherford.

So opening another ten spots in a year will require some creativity.  3 for 2 trades or trade borderline guys for guys who are a year or two from 40 man issues.  We also will be out of international bonus penalty limit of 300k so we could even add some cap room.

Yup, next year will be the real issue.  I can understand the logic behind not rushing to put Hamilton on the 40 man roster, but that’s just to allow as much depth as possible heading into spring training.  The reality is Hamilton will force himself on to the 25 man roster by late April if not opening day.  Nothing wrong with holding on to a guy like Juan Minaya until then in case there is an injury.  But at the end of the day, clearing roster spots won’t be a huge challenge as there is plenty of garbage & overlapping depth on the 40 man as currently constructed.

[ChiSox59]

18 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

Even after reading Fegan's piece I really don't see this as a problem yet. Ridding of Danish, Farquhar, Gomez, Gonzalez, Shields, Santiago, Garneau, Smith, Skole, Engel, LaMarre, Tilson, and Davidson would leave more than enough room for us to protect those who need protection. Then there are the guys like Avilan, Cedeno, and Avi Garcia who are fine players but might be traded. The 9 names listed in the post above probably all need the protection aside from Medeiros, but it probably wouldn't hurt to add him too.

There's still just so much garbage on the current 40 man that this seems like a non-issue to me. 

Except I doubt the Sox rid themselves of Davidson, Tilson, Engel, Smith and maybe even Danish. 

[Chicago White Sox]

51 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Except I doubt the Sox rid themselves of Davidson, Tilson, Engel, Smith and maybe even Danish. 

The Sox aren’t keeping four catchers on the 40 man roster IMO.  Smith will most likely be traded.  I fully expect one of Tilson, Engel, & Cordell to be moved, with Tilson the most likely candidate.  I also expect one of of the Davidson, Palka, & Delmonico trio to be moved.