Israel and Syria

[1549]

Any opinions on Isreal's attack on Syria?

 

Personally I think Isreal needs a new approach, obviously this you strike we strike plan has not helped them a bit. I don't think this wall/buffer zone that is being assembled will help either. Isreal needs to make peace, they shouldn't try to put their problems behind a wall.

 

I am glad Syria's response was a complaint to the UN and not an attack on Isreal, obviously someone over there has some brains.

[sox4lifeinPA]

well, we can start with the fact that the word "anti-semitic" refers to

 

"members of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians. "

 

with that being said, anytime someone says something that favors a people group such as the palestinians and rejects popular opinion, such as backing Isreal with immense amounts of capital...they're "anti-semetic" even though palestinians are themselves semites.

 

It's time to say to everyone involved. Shut up and stop fighting or say goodbye to the billions of dollars in aid. The cycle has to be stopped. It's your move Bushy....

 

(high fives sideshowapu)

[southsider2k5]

And the thing is the US is hypocraticical if they say anything about this, because how many times have we attack sovreign nations on our own, in the name of antiterrorism?

[sox4lifeinPA]

seriously, and that's universal US politics

 

Eisenhower, kennedy, etc...

[southsider2k5]

seriously, and that's universal US politics

 

Eisenhower, kennedy, etc...

I know it is. But it is exactly what is going to happen. If we really wanted to send a statement we would quit helping them, and we would step in and stop the Palestinian terrorist groups from killing innocent Israelies.

[Flash Tizzle]

Although I dont have a degree in middle eastern affairs like Sideshowapu , I believe Israel crossed the line with this attack in Syria. Its obvious that Israel carried out this attack because there would be no way in hell syria would of supported this kind of action. Asking the UN for assistance and for the US to condem this will go unanswered.

 

As I said, Israel was wrong in this case but I do support Israel retaliation on the Palestinians. I guess because I cant relate to the s***ty conditions these people live in Im not allowed to make a decision; thats what these hardcore "Free Palestine/ Palestinian State NOW" people would have you believe. Any palestinian, better yet the PLO, arent fit to run this message board. This suicide bombing bulls*** is ridiculous and must end for anyone to take them seriously.

 

(And no, the idea of using suicide bombers as their way of being taken seriously is getting repetitive.....they just love killing israelis.)

 

I'll take heat for this, but I'm sick of these uncivilized, Alla loving freaks who live their life only to prepare for the after-life. I dont need to read the Kuran to realize that their religion holds them as king s***, and if you dont believe then you deserve to die.

 

To me, if the middle east was nuked 70% of the worlds problems would disappear. Dont say were the problem either, cause were not. Middle east needs a parent (US) to watch over their idiotic actions.

 

 

I think I infuriated Sideshow.....can't wait to hear his response.

[southsider2k5]

Although I dont have a degree in middle eastern affairs like Sideshowapu  , I believe Israel crossed the line with this attack in Syria.  Its obvious that Israel carried out this attack because there would be no way in hell syria would of supported this kind of action.  Asking the UN for assistance and for the US to condem this will go unanswered.

 

As I said, Israel was wrong in this case but I do support Israel retaliation on the Palestinians.  I guess because I cant relate to the s***ty conditions these people live in Im not allowed to make a decision; thats what these hardcore "Free Palestine/ Palestinian State NOW" people would have you believe.  Any palestinian, better yet the PLO, arent fit to run this message board.  This suicide bombing bulls*** is ridiculous and must end for anyone to take them seriously.

 

(And no, the idea of using suicide bombers as their way of being taken seriously is getting repetitive.....they just love killing israelis.)

 

I'll take heat for this, but I'm sick of these uncivilized, Alla loving freaks who live their life only to prepare for the after-life. I dont need to read the Kuran to realize that their religion holds them as king s***, and if you dont believe then you deserve to die.

 

To me, if the middle east was nuked 70% of the worlds problems would disappear.  Dont say were the problem either, cause were not.  Middle east needs a parent (US) to watch over their idiotic actions.

 

 

I think I infuriated Sideshow.....can't wait to hear his response.

Actually you do need to read the Quaran to realize that these people represent Islam the same way that the White Power movement represents the Bible.

 

Get out and read somemore and get out of that narrow world view.

[Flash Tizzle]

Actually you do need to read the Quaran to realize that these people represent Islam the same way that the White Power movement represents the Bible.

 

Get out and read somemore and get out of that narrow world view.

I would give you a million other books I would rather read then the Quran. I don't need to read through hundreds of pages of "praise Allah" to somehow open my view to the world. Many of the verses are translated through interpretation.

 

Some people might think "Wash your yourself in the blood of the infidels" as a hearwarming welcoming to the peaceful religion of Islam. Dont think Im attacking the religion (all muslims arent terrorists I KNOW), I just believe these suicide bombers are wrong for killing themselves for what a book says. 19 highjackers on 9/11 sure believed they were about to meet a lot of brown eyed virgins in the afterlife........

 

 

You cant even compare the extremists who live their life off the Bible compared to the Quran....

 

White power movement.......how many of them exist today; half a million. Lets try to count the number of people that live their lives based on the teachings of the Quran. I would say there are easily 50 million muslims that believe suicide bombers are right in their beliefs AND wouldnt mind strapping some C4 to their chests.

[southsider2k5]

Actually you do need to read the Quaran to realize that these people represent Islam the same way that the White Power movement represents the Bible.

 

Get out and read somemore and get out of that narrow world view.

I would give you a million other books I would rather read then the Quran. I don't need to read through hundreds of pages of "praise Allah" to somehow open my view to the world. Many of the verses are translated through interpretation.

 

Some people might think "Wash your yourself in the blood of the infidels" as a hearwarming welcoming to the peaceful religion of Islam. Dont think Im attacking the religion (all muslims arent terrorists I KNOW), I just believe these suicide bombers are wrong for killing themselves for what a book says. 19 highjackers on 9/11 sure believed they were about to meet a lot of brown eyed virgins in the afterlife........

 

 

You cant even compare the extremists who live their life off the Bible compared to the Quran....

 

White power movement.......how many of them exist today; half a million. Lets try to count the number of people that live their lives based on the teachings of the Quran. I would say there are easily 50 million muslims that believe suicide bombers are right in their beliefs AND wouldnt mind strapping some C4 to their chests.

OK, if too narrow to actually read and understand the context of the Quaran, read the old testament. (Tell me how many "Praise the Lord's" you see in there.) Tell me what kind of image that portrays. Where do you think the original "eye for an eye" came from? It wasn't Islam. If you read the rules of Jihad, the highjackers broke many of them and even in their own religion wouldn't be bound for eternity.

 

And yes I can compare extremists with extremists. Many, many groups have hijacked Christianity, the sameway that people hijack Islam for their own personal gains. And lets count the number of "Christians" who live their lives according to the bible. 99% of Christians have no idea what their rules of life are supposed to be, they have no idea what the 10 commandments are, they have no idea what the 7 deadly sins are, they have no idea that they have responsibilities under God, they have no idea what a church is supposed to be. And I could keep going, but there isn't much point.

 

If you aren't going to be cultured enough to understand what you are criticizing, at least know something about what you are defending.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Many of the verses in the Bible were translated through interpretation. Most Biblical scholars now believe that Sodom and Gamorrah were destroyed for gross inhospitality rather than their homosexuality. That's just one example.

 

Most right wing Biblical fundamentalists say that the Bible endorses marriage = 1 man + 1 woman. However, throughout the Bible there was bigamy abound. There are plenty of right wing fundamentalist movements that are very intolerant of any other religion and even the violent militants of the Army of God and other people who murder abortion clinic doctors.

 

So, I could blame all of Christianity for what one sect has perverted it into to suit their political agenda. But that is not right to do to the religion. Thusly, it is not right for people to judge all of Islam on the Wahabbi fundamentalist sect that a minority of Arabs ascribe to. And if we wanna get technical, Wahabbi is the sect of Islam that our ally Saudi Arabia uses to keep power.

 

What about the "uncivilized Jesus loving freaks" like Pat Robertson who said:

"It is interesting, that termites don't build things, and the great builders of our nation almost to a man have been Christians, because Christians have the desire to build something. He is motivated by love of man and God, so he builds. The people who have come into (our) institutions (today) are primarily termites. They are into destroying institutions that have been built by Christians, whether it is universities, governments, our own traditions, that we have.... The termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and the time has arrived for a godly fumigation."--Pat Robertson, New York Magazine, August 18, 1986

 

A godly fumigation? Yeah, that's not sick or intolerant at all. Or how about his #2 in the Christian Coalition? "I want to be invisible. I do guerrilla warfare. I paint my face and travel at night. You don't know it's over until you're in a body bag." --Ralph Reed, Norfolk Virginian-Pilot, 11/9/91

 

I won't even get into Falwell and the rest of them. So, do you see how it's easy to blow a minority sect out of proportion and stereotype it on lots of people?

[LowerCaseRepublican]

A lot of people in America tend to think that Israel is innocent. This is because the US media does not cover the fact that Israel is the #1 violator of UN laws. Nearly every time the UN goes to punish them, the United States uses its' veto vote to quash the punishment. The media doesn't cover the bulldozing of Palestinian homes or the wall that is going up. They don't cover Sharon's war crimes in Sabra and Shatila. Israel has done a lot of stuff wrong to the Palestinians. But that by no means justifies the intense violence on either side. You'd think they'd figure out that after the first few suicide bombings and retalitory missile attacks that it wasn't working.

 

My friend Adam writes for our school newspaper and his article which will get published tomorrow [that's why it says Yom Kippur was yesterday] mirrors my sentiments on the entire situation almost exactly.

 

Here it is:

Day of Atonement

 

Yom Kippur was observed yesterday; it is the holiest holiday in the Jewish calendar. All day, Jews across the world prayed for forgiveness. We asked God for forgiveness for sins we have committed against Him. However, God cannot forgive us for sins committed against others. In order to gain his neighbor’s forgiveness, a Jew must specifically ask for it.

So, as a Jew, I think it’s time to ask forgiveness from the people whom we have collectively sinned against the worst: the Palestinians. Whatever bad blood they might have caused, we have to admit to our parts in this hostility.

Our brothers in Israel have killed thousands of Palestinians, and displaced many more from their homes.

We are building a wall to separate the Palestinians from us. The wall weaves in and out of their scant territories, isolating many Palestinian communities.

When complete, the 20 foot tall monstrosity will make the Berlin Wall pale in comparison, yet we continue calling it a fence. Under the Nazis, we were cordoned off the same way, because we were seen as inhuman, a danger to better parts of society. Now, we are doing the same thing to Muslims who share our homeland in Israel.

Many of us have blindly supported a President, either in Israel or the United States, who should be standing trial for war crimes instead of running a country. We have responded to violence with more violence, using our dominant arsenal to inflict even more injury than we receive. We have branded a whole people as terrorists because of what a few of them have done.

For these sins against our Palestinian brothers, we must ask for, or even beg for their forgiveness. If we truly want atonement, there is no other way but to apologize.

Think of their hardships. They needed a Gandhi, and all they got was an Arafat.

I have to admit, I have no idea how Arafat can be so popular amongst Palestinians. How could someone suffering under oppression and poverty really trust a millionaire who pays people to blow themselves up? If modern Israel didn’t resemble apartheid South Africa quite so closely, maybe more young Muslims would tell Arafat, “You first.”

Since both Israeli and Palestinian leadership has been unable to come up with a peaceful solution, I have taken the liberty of coming up with one myself. I am quite confidant that this plan will appease both sides and create and enduring peace.

What we need is to convince the leadership from both sides to come to a meeting. We will send invitations to Arafat and the leaders of every militant organization. Sharon must be invited also, along with his most loyal lieutenants. I would suggest that they invite George W. Bush as a mediator.

Inside the meeting, the Palestinian leadership would sit on one side of the table, and the Israelis on the other. We would close the doors on their meeting room, and Bush could start the discussion.

My guess is that they will soon be arguing so loudly, that nobody will notice the wall going up in front of the door or the cement being poured on top of the meeting room. By the time everybody is ready to break for lunch, we will have already constructed our monument to intolerance, with Sharon and Arafat trapped inside.

Maybe Jews and Muslims would get along if bitter leadership didn’t lead both sides in the direction of violence. It might be the wake up call both sides need. We will either learn to get along, or die trying.

Adam Zmick is a junior in engineering. Please do not shoot him. Hate mail can be sent to [email protected]

[Flash Tizzle]

Thats sideshowapu alright, he ends all arguements. I dont even know how to respond to that.

 

But I do understand what you getting at. Obviously in both Christianity and Islam there are many more that are peaceful then express hatred. Conflicts in Ireland existed (or still do, im not sure) because of Christianity. Lets not forget the Crusades during the Middle Ages, where millions blindly killed themselves.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Lets not forget the Crusades during the Middle Ages, where millions blindly killed themselves.

Yeah, I can't believe that in a press conference Bush actually called the War on Terror a "Crusade" I was sitting there laughing saying "Ix-nay on the Usade-Cray!"

[Rex Kickass]

Israel attacking Syria crossed the line because there was no diplomatic effort on Israel to crack down on Islamic Jihad. The rules of the game to me say that Israel needs to ask cooperation first, then has the right to "defend" herself. Believe it or not, we did it in Afghanistan and we even, to a lesser degree, did it in Iraq. It may seem stupid, but its protocol. And its the way to justify an attack in International Law.

 

That being said, Israel has nothing to fear. The US would never allow a binding resolution passed in the Security Council that unilaterally punishes the state. Just as Syria and other states in the Security Council would probably never allow a resolution that does the same for the still-stateless Palestinians.

 

In this respect, the UN has failed. And it is, indeed, partially our own fault.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Any opinions on Isreal's attack on Syria?

 

Personally I think Isreal needs a new approach, obviously this you strike we strike plan has not helped them a bit.  I don't think this wall/buffer zone that is being assembled will help either.  Isreal needs to make peace, they shouldn't try to put their problems behind a wall.

 

I am glad Syria's response was a complaint to the UN and not an attack on Isreal, obviously someone over there has some brains.

 

 

The doctrine of Pre-emption of a threat manfests itself again. Good for them! Bold move puts towelheads on notice that they can't hide across borders. BTW Syria doesn't have the stones to attack Isreal when it's big brother has 5 divisions closeby.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Any opinions on Isreal's attack on Syria?

 

Personally I think Isreal needs a new approach, obviously this you strike we strike plan has not helped them a bit.  I don't think this wall/buffer zone that is being assembled will help either.  Isreal needs to make peace, they shouldn't try to put their problems behind a wall.

 

I am glad Syria's response was a complaint to the UN and not an attack on Isreal, obviously someone over there has some brains.

The doctrine of Pre-emption of a threat manfests itself again. Good for them! Bold move puts towelheads on notice that they can't hide across the border.

The doctrine of pre-emption manifested itself in Nazi Germany. I guess it was okay with you when Hitler needed his Labensraum, huh? I'm just saying where the doctrinal idea came from, Nukey.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Any opinions on Isreal's attack on Syria?

 

Personally I think Isreal needs a new approach, obviously this you strike we strike plan has not helped them a bit.  I don't think this wall/buffer zone that is being assembled will help either.  Isreal needs to make peace, they shouldn't try to put their problems behind a wall.

 

I am glad Syria's response was a complaint to the UN and not an attack on Isreal, obviously someone over there has some brains.

The doctrine of Pre-emption of a threat manfests itself again. Good for them! Bold move puts towelheads on notice that they can't hide across the border.

The doctrine of pre-emption manifested itself in Nazi Germany. I guess it was okay with you when Hitler needed his Labensraum, huh? I'm just saying where the doctrinal idea came from, Nukey.

That was a joke and you know it. Did anyone in the world believe Poland or the Czechs or the Austrians to be a threat to Nazi Germany? Hitler saying his neighbors threatened him is like if I was armed and in full battle gear saying a baby in a carriage was a threat to me. There is no comparison at all.

 

BTW. I don't know if you read any of Tom Clancy's books but there is a passage in "The Sum of All Fears" that refers to Isreals situation and it goes something like this. "When the stated goal of your opponent is your complete annihilation then no defensive measure can be considered extreme". This includes a pinpoint airstrike against a terrorist organization operating in a supposedly "neutral" country.

[Rex Kickass]

Any opinions on Isreal's attack on Syria?

 

Personally I think Isreal needs a new approach, obviously this you strike we strike plan has not helped them a bit.  I don't think this wall/buffer zone that is being assembled will help either.  Isreal needs to make peace, they shouldn't try to put their problems behind a wall.

 

I am glad Syria's response was a complaint to the UN and not an attack on Isreal, obviously someone over there has some brains.

 

 

The doctrine of Pre-emption of a threat manfests itself again. Good for them! Bold move puts towelheads on notice that they can't hide across borders. BTW Syria doesn't have the stones to attack Isreal when it's big brother has 5 divisions closeby.

Actually, this would be a retaliatory attack. Not pre-emptive. The state of Israel claims that it was an Islamic Jihad training camp. Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the suicide bombing in Israel over the last week. However, Syrian citizens interviewed after the attack say that the terrorist camp had been empty and abandoned for several years. Whether that's true, who knows.

 

Syria, however, did not attack Israel and has not attacked or threatened the state since 1974.

 

A PreEmption doctrine would have been exercised by Israel in the early 1980s by a bombing of an Iraqi Nuclear reactor. Or by its invasion of southern Lebanon... which fueled and fed Hezbollah. So much so that the Christian government of Lebanon has a cozy and friendly relationship with the islamic organization.

[Rex Kickass]

Any opinions on Isreal's attack on Syria?

 

Personally I think Isreal needs a new approach, obviously this you strike we strike plan has not helped them a bit.  I don't think this wall/buffer zone that is being assembled will help either.  Isreal needs to make peace, they shouldn't try to put their problems behind a wall.

 

I am glad Syria's response was a complaint to the UN and not an attack on Isreal, obviously someone over there has some brains.

The doctrine of Pre-emption of a threat manfests itself again. Good for them! Bold move puts towelheads on notice that they can't hide across the border.

The doctrine of pre-emption manifested itself in Nazi Germany. I guess it was okay with you when Hitler needed his Labensraum, huh? I'm just saying where the doctrinal idea came from, Nukey.

That was a joke and you know it. Did anyone in the world believe Poland or the Czechs or the Austrians to be a threat to Nazi Germany? Hitler saying his neighbors threatened him is like if I was armed and in full battle gear saying a baby in a carriage was a threat to me. There is no comparison at all.

 

BTW. I don't know if you read any of Tom Clancy's books but there is a passage in "The Sum of All Fears" that refers to Isreals situation and it goes something like this. "When the stated goal of your opponent is your complete annihilation then no defensive measure can be considered extreme". This includes a pinpoint airstrike against a terrorist organization operating in a supposedly "neutral" country.

How many people honestly believed that Iraq, who had a missile delivery system capable of going as far as neighboring country Syria was a real immediate threat to the US?

 

If you talk about bio weapons in a briefcase, etc. Israel has undeclared NBC programs... and not just Friends.... so bombs away!

[LowerCaseRepublican]

That was a joke and you know it.  Did anyone in the world believe Poland or the Czechs or the Austrians to be a threat to Nazi Germany?  Hitler saying his neighbors threatened him is like if I was armed and in full battle gear saying a baby in a carriage was a threat to me.  There is no comparison at all. 

 

BTW.  I don't know if you read any of Tom Clancy's books but there is a passage in "The Sum of All Fears" that refers to Isreals situation and it goes something like this.  "When the stated goal of your opponent is your complete annihilation then no defensive measure can be considered extreme".  This includes a pinpoint airstrike against a terrorist organization operating in a supposedly "neutral" country.

Did anybody actually believe that a 3rd world dictator with no air force, no delivery system or much of a military force at all and NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION would pose a threat to the US? Obviously people did because look at the support for the illegal oil grab.

 

I just find it funny that a "democracy" is embracing an ideology defined and used by the Nazi Reich.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I just find it funny that a "democracy" is embracing an ideology defined and used by the Nazi Reich.

Misdefined and misused

[LowerCaseRepublican]

 

I just find it funny that a "democracy" is embracing an ideology defined and used by the Nazi Reich.

Misdefined and misused

So their imperialism is any different than that of the US or Israel?

[Rex Kickass]

Short answer Yes.

Long answer: Most definitely.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

 

I just find it funny that a "democracy" is embracing an ideology defined and used by the Nazi Reich.

Misdefined and misused

So their imperialism is any different than that of the US or Israel?

Imperialism? I hardly think ousting a despot who everybody and I mean EVERYBODY hated and that did have an active WMD program or removing a regime that had blood all over its hands from 9-11 is imperialism.

 

Isreal, Imperialistic? These people have been fighting for their lives for 55 years totally surrounded by enemies. What kind of imperialism is that?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Any opinions on Isreal's attack on Syria?

 

PA PreEmption doctrine would have been exercised by Israel in the early 1980s by a bombing of an Iraqi Nuclear reactor.

Thank god they did that or Saddam Hussein would have destroyed Isreal, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia would be provinces of Iraq and we would be paying 10 bucks a gallon for regular unleaded.