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KW on Jimenez/Kopech


Jose Abreu

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We recently saw a team sign an extension with a guy before he got called up right? 

Let's be creative here. Tim Anderson got himself $25 million guaranteed. Jiminez looks a lot more tempting than Anderson. So, go to Jiminez and offer this:

2019: $2 million
2020: $2 million
2021: $2 million
2022: $9 million
2023: $12 million
2024: $15 milllion option/$3 million buyout
2025: $20 million option/$3 million buyout.

That's $30 million guaranteed for him as written and he gets some of the money moved up early, that's a little less each year than he'd make if he went to arbitration each of those years so the White Sox save a little, the White Sox get that extra year of control and can stop playing the game with calling him up, and he will only have just finished his 28 year old season when he hits free agency so if he's playing like a guy en route to the Hall of Fame he can still score a half billion dollar contract in 2025. 

Who does that not work for?

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5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

We recently saw a team sign an extension with a guy before he got called up right? 

Let's be creative here. Tim Anderson got himself $25 million guaranteed. Jiminez looks a lot more tempting than Anderson. So, go to Jiminez and offer this:

2019: $2 million
2020: $2 million
2021: $2 million
2022: $9 million
2023: $12 million
2024: $15 milllion option/$3 million buyout
2025: $20 million option/$3 million buyout.

That's $30 million guaranteed for him as written and he gets some of the money moved up early, that's a little less each year than he'd make if he went to arbitration each of those years so the White Sox save a little, the White Sox get that extra year of control and can stop playing the game with calling him up, and he will only have just finished his 28 year old season when he hits free agency so if he's playing like a guy en route to the Hall of Fame he can still score a half billion dollar contract in 2025. 

Who does that not work for?

Is there anyway to determine the value if he proceeded on a normal path? I know the arbitration can't be calculated exactly but based on current  Kris Bryant path of arbitration it would be interesting to compare.

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7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

We recently saw a team sign an extension with a guy before he got called up right? 

Let's be creative here. Tim Anderson got himself $25 million guaranteed. Jiminez looks a lot more tempting than Anderson. So, go to Jiminez and offer this:

2019: $2 million
2020: $2 million
2021: $2 million
2022: $9 million
2023: $12 million
2024: $15 milllion option/$3 million buyout
2025: $20 million option/$3 million buyout.

That's $30 million guaranteed for him as written and he gets some of the money moved up early, that's a little less each year than he'd make if he went to arbitration each of those years so the White Sox save a little, the White Sox get that extra year of control and can stop playing the game with calling him up, and he will only have just finished his 28 year old season when he hits free agency so if he's playing like a guy en route to the Hall of Fame he can still score a half billion dollar contract in 2025. 

Who does that not work for?

Sounds great to me, though I'd prefer a team option for 2026.

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12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

We recently saw a team sign an extension with a guy before he got called up right? 

Let's be creative here. Tim Anderson got himself $25 million guaranteed. Jiminez looks a lot more tempting than Anderson. So, go to Jiminez and offer this:

2019: $2 million
2020: $2 million
2021: $2 million
2022: $9 million
2023: $12 million
2024: $15 milllion option/$3 million buyout
2025: $20 million option/$3 million buyout.

That's $30 million guaranteed for him as written and he gets some of the money moved up early, that's a little less each year than he'd make if he went to arbitration each of those years so the White Sox save a little, the White Sox get that extra year of control and can stop playing the game with calling him up, and he will only have just finished his 28 year old season when he hits free agency so if he's playing like a guy en route to the Hall of Fame he can still score a half billion dollar contract in 2025. 

Who does that not work for?

I wouldn't assume they haven't already at least started asking. 

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6 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Is there anyway to determine the value if he proceeded on a normal path? I know the arbitration can't be calculated exactly but based on current  Kris Bryant path of arbitration it would be interesting to compare.

Not unreasonable guesses, assuming he's a great ballplayer:

If he was called up right now:
2019: Pre-Arb (<$1 million)
2020: Pre-Arb (<$1 million)
2021: Pre-Arb (<$1 million)
2022: Arb 1 - $12 milion
2023: Arb 2 - $16 million
2024: Arb 3 - $20 million
2025: Free Agent

If the White Sox wait until next April:
2019: Pre-Arb (<$1 million)
2020: Pre-Arb (<$1 million)
2021: Pre-Arb (<$1 million)
2022: Arb 1 - $12 milion
2023: Arb 2 - $16 million
2024: Arb 3 - $20 million
2025: Arb 4 - $24 million

Give or take, if he's called up next April, he can earn about $72 million. You could probably quibble with those numbers by a million or two, it's hard to predict precisely that far out, but I don't think they're off that badly. The way I wrote that deal, the most he could earn is $62 million, and he trades that earnings for the early career $30 million guaranteed. 

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1 minute ago, Buehrlesque said:

Just have to laugh at the defense comment, from a team that brought up Nicky Delmonico and Daniel Palka to play the OF. We're really grasping at straws here!

Yeah,I think it is silly myself, but if you think about the development of the player to best contribute to the team when he gets here, it kind of makes sense. Palka and Delmonico are up here to fill holes. That is not what Jimenez will be doing.

But, I'm not sure how much he can improve defensively...in the outfield...in AAA compared to MLB. Like, it's a corner outfield spot. All you need is an arm and a little bit of reading skills. We already know he has a good arm. Completely different than center.

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5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Not unreasonable guesses, assuming he's a great ballplayer:

If he was called up right now:
2019: Pre-Arb (<$1 million)
2020: Pre-Arb (<$1 million)
2021: Pre-Arb (<$1 million)
2022: Arb 1 - $12 milion
2023: Arb 2 - $16 million
2024: Arb 3 - $20 million
2025: Free Agent

If the White Sox wait until next April:
2019: Pre-Arb (<$1 million)
2020: Pre-Arb (<$1 million)
2021: Pre-Arb (<$1 million)
2022: Arb 1 - $12 milion
2023: Arb 2 - $16 million
2024: Arb 3 - $20 million
2025: Arb 4 - $24 million

Give or take, if he's called up next April, he can earn about $72 million. You could probably quibble with those numbers by a million or two, it's hard to predict precisely that far out, but I don't think they're off that badly. The way I wrote that deal, the most he could earn is $62 million, and he trades that earnings for the early career $30 million guaranteed. 

I think your plan would be a good deal for both sides.  As you said he gives up a little money for guaranteed generational wealth and more money early. It's kind of like a 10 million dollar insurance policy against a catastrophic injury early in his career.

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2 minutes ago, Scoots said:

Yeah,I think it is silly myself, but if you think about the development of the player to best contribute to the team when he gets here, it kind of makes sense. Palka and Delmonico are up here to fill holes. That is not what Jimenez will be doing.

But, I'm not sure how much he can improve defensively...in the outfield...in AAA compared to MLB. Like, it's a corner outfield spot. All you need is an arm and a little bit of reading skills. We already know he has a good arm. Completely different than center.

Unless there is something he's doing clearly wrong then it's completely BS. If there's something he's doing clearly wrong, like when Jose Abreu didn't know where to put his feet at 1b and it took Ventura's staff 2 months to realize it and he almost got himself hurt repeatedly before they woke up, then the question is - why haven't they been coaching him on that during the year+ they've had him? 

Because it's complete BS. 

What's frustrating me is that they had a much better excuse to keep Moncada down last year, his numbers were no where near like Jiminez's numbers right now, and yet it seems like theyr'e going to play the service time game here but they didn't with Moncada. 

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12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Unless there is something he's doing clearly wrong then it's completely BS. If there's something he's doing clearly wrong, like when Jose Abreu didn't know where to put his feet at 1b and it took Ventura's staff 2 months to realize it and he almost got himself hurt repeatedly before they woke up, then the question is - why haven't they been coaching him on that during the year+ they've had him? 

Because it's complete BS. 

What's frustrating me is that they had a much better excuse to keep Moncada down last year, his numbers were no where near like Jiminez's numbers right now, and yet it seems like theyr'e going to play the service time game here but they didn't with Moncada. 

If it's really about him learning from different defensive situations, he'd face more of those in the majors.
But maybe KW saw the effect of calling up Moncada, Anderson and the 3 pitchers, if not before they were ready, before they dominated lower levels and now he wants to make sure that the AA and AAA coaches do the teaching.  Maybe Renteria, Cooper et al are more focused on winning games than on development.  Thus, pitching Rodon for 110+, only tepid chances for Leury to learn CF, etc.  
Just speculation, obviously.

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1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

Maybe Renteria, Cooper et al are more focused on winning games than on development.  Thus, pitching Rodon for 110+, only tepid chances for Leury to learn CF, etc.  
Just speculation, obviously.

If that were the case, Leury would be in CF every day and Adam Engel would be in Charlotte/on the bench

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21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Unless there is something he's doing clearly wrong then it's completely BS. If there's something he's doing clearly wrong, like when Jose Abreu didn't know where to put his feet at 1b and it took Ventura's staff 2 months to realize it and he almost got himself hurt repeatedly before they woke up, then the question is - why haven't they been coaching him on that during the year+ they've had him? 

Because it's complete BS. 

What's frustrating me is that they had a much better excuse to keep Moncada down last year, his numbers were no where near like Jiminez's numbers right now, and yet it seems like theyr'e going to play the service time game here but they didn't with Moncada. 

Yeah, it's all BS. It won't matter in a week or two when he's called up, but for now, I'd say better to just not say anything than come up with this farcical lines.

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3 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

If that were the case, Leury would be in CF every day and Adam Engel would be in Charlotte/on the bench

Depends on how you value defense.  Leury misses catchable balls out there.
Anyway, the work by the Birmingham and Charlotte coaches seems to have been exquisite so at least he should continue to learn down there.

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24 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

The "checking boxes" meme is already tired as hell. Good job on that, guys. 

I think Charlotte should change their name to the "Charlotte Box Checkers" and their new mascot is a dude in a polo and khakis with a clipboard and a pen checking off boxes.

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28 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

The "checking boxes" meme is already tired as hell. Good job on that, guys. 

Agreed. Eloy and Kopech should be up April 12, 2019...which should be the first game of the 5th series. No apologies or excuses needed. Just wait until you get the extra year.

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If Jimenez had a couple hundred more plate appearances above A ball, and he was doing this, they would have to call him up, but why do it if you don't have to? I thought rebuilds were about patience. Be patient, get the extra year of control. If he spends an extra month in AAA, it isn't going to make him a bad player, and if it somehow did, something else would have anyway.

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2 hours ago, Buehrlesque said:

Yeah, it's all BS. It won't matter in a week or two when he's called up, but for now, I'd say better to just not say anything than come up with this farcical lines.

Yep.Hahn knew better than to say exactly what boxes needed to be checked because he knew it would sound ridiculous. Kenny  on the other hand....

 

Imagine KW saying that about Frank Thomas. He'd have never been brought up . :P

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