Jose Abreu Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: Kris Bryant in 2014, (when he went back to AAA to start 2015) AA 297 plate appearances .355/.458/.702 AAA 297 plate appearances .295/.418/.619 Combined 594 plate appearances .325/.438/.661 I think the example works fine A 1.037 OPS in AAA sure is great, but not as much with a 29% strikeout rate, and not nearly as much in comparison to a guy with a 1.173 OPS and 9% strikeout rate. What Eloy is doing right now in AAA is almost unprecedented, given his age. It would be a lot more talked about if Vlad Jr. didn't happen to be doing even better even younger right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Buehrlesque said: This is what I think too. I understand why people want to see him down until mid-April next year, but I just don't see that happening. Up until recently I was all for keeping Eloy down until mid-April next year but with how he's crushing the ball in Charlotte I think we see him very soon. I just cannot see how the Sox will be able to keep Eloy down and then have to come up with even more half-assed excuses in late March 2019 for sending him to Charlotte for two or three weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said: A 1.037 OPS in AAA sure is great, but not as much with a 29% strikeout rate, and not nearly as much in comparison to a guy with a 1.173 OPS and 9% strikeout rate. What Eloy is doing right now in AAA is almost unprecedented, given his age. It would be a lot more talked about if Vlad Jr. didn't happen to be doing even better even younger right now. He's doing great. I'm not arguing that. Whether it's sustainable....I would bet his numbers drop a bit if you give him 100 more ABs, and if they don't, great. The Sox will have this guy an extra season by having him spend an extra month and a half in Charlotte. To me, 7 years from now, that will be the best trade Rick Hahn made for that season. Edited July 31, 2018 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said: Up until recently I was all for keeping Eloy down until mid-April next year but with how he's crushing the ball in Charlotte I think we see him very soon. I just cannot see how the Sox will be able to keep Eloy down and then have to come up with even more half-assed excuses in late March 2019 for sending him to Charlotte for two or three weeks. Exactly! If the excuses seem ridiculous and tortured now, just imagine how asinine they would be through all of spring training up until Opening Day next year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 21 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Yep.Hahn knew better than to say exactly what boxes needed to be checked because he knew it would sound ridiculous. Kenny on the other hand.... Imagine KW saying that about Frank Thomas. He'd have never been brought up . Hilarious tweet from last night: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, Buehrlesque said: Exactly! If the excuses seem ridiculous and tortured now, just imagine how asinine they would be through all of spring training up until Opening Day next year! It'll be even better when Jimenez goes into the HOF with an Angels hat because he refused to sign a contract with the Sox as soon as he reaches free agency. Save one year of control to lose his services for a decade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, ptatc said: It'll be even better when Jimenez goes into the HOF with an Angels hat because he refused to sign a contract with the Sox as soon as he reaches free agency. Save one year of control to lose his services for a decade. Personally I feel this is a clear case of being pound foolish and penny smart. I HEAVILY discount any future event that is 7 year out. In 7 fucking years ALOT can happen. So much in fact that trying to predict is pointless. This is basic Nassim Taleb thinking, everybody should read his books. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, ptatc said: It'll be even better when Jimenez goes into the HOF with an Angels hat because he refused to sign a contract with the Sox as soon as he reaches free agency. Save one year of control to lose his services for a decade. If his relationship with the club is irreparably harmed because they made him play fewer than 130 AAA games at age 21-22, then his agent and players association are doing a bad job explaining how things work. He’ll get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 17 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said: Up until recently I was all for keeping Eloy down until mid-April next year but with how he's crushing the ball in Charlotte I think we see him very soon. I just cannot see how the Sox will be able to keep Eloy down and then have to come up with even more half-assed excuses in late March 2019 for sending him to Charlotte for two or three weeks. I am getting there too. I really do want the Sox to keep him in AAA until middle of next April, but he really is "forcing the issue". He keep raking like this, they can't keep him down there, despite it making a ton of sense to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, ptatc said: It'll be even better when Jimenez goes into the HOF with an Angels hat because he refused to sign a contract with the Sox as soon as he reaches free agency. Save one year of control to lose his services for a decade. If Eloy comes even close to his ceiling, he is never resigning here anyway. The whole "he's going to be mad and hate the White Sox" angle is really dumb for multiple reasons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 9.8% K rate in AAA, that is absurd for a guy with an ISO over 300. We are really looking at a Manny type hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said: 9.8% K rate in AAA, that is absurd for a guy with an ISO over 300. We are really looking at a Manny type hitter. While it would be nice if he is as good as Manny Ramirez, I think El Caballo is the more likely outcome. Both offensively and defensively. I loved Carlos Lee. I wish they didn't have to launch him to get Podsednik. Edited July 31, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, flavum said: If his relationship with the club is irreparably harmed because they made him play fewer than 130 AAA games at age 21-22, then his agent and players association are doing a bad job explaining how things work. He’ll get over it. You don't know that. Players are just like anyone else. If your company purposefully did something to make sure you didn't earn your rightful money, how would you feel. The Sox have every right to keep him down to gain the extra year. Just has he has every right to see this for what it is and be pissed about it and hold it against them when the FA negotiations start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: While it would be nice if he is as good as Manny Ramirez, I think El Caballo is the more likely outcome. Both offensively and defensively. I loved Carlos Lee. I wish they didn't have to launch him to get Podsednik. Carlos Lee? He of a 112 career wRC and whose single season highest ISO was .255? Who was one of the worst defenders in baseball for a decade and finished with 28 fWAR (best season 5.5)? If that's all Eloy turns into then fuck. Sox need Eloy to be a superstar. A guy that is routinely putting up a wRC+ between 130-160 and who can defend his position enough to get to 5-8 WAR on a yearly basis. If he's not, the rebuild takes a step back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: If Eloy comes even close to his ceiling, he is never resigning here anyway. The whole "he's going to be mad and hate the White Sox" angle is really dumb for multiple reasons. I disagree. I think he would be justified in holding it against them. Now, if you are approaching from the angle that the Sox don't plan on resigning him as a free agent then you're correct in keeping him in the minors as long as possible. In fact keep him down until 2020 when they may start to be competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Carlos Lee? He of a 112 career wRC and whose single season highest ISO was .255? Who was one of the worst defenders in baseball for a decade and finished with 28 fWAR (best season 5.5)? If that's all Eloy turns into then fuck. Sox need Eloy to be a superstar. A guy that is routinely putting up a wRC+ between 130-160 and who can defend his position enough to get to 5-8 WAR on a yearly basis. If he's not, the rebuild takes a step back. You talk about Lee like he sucked as a player. In his 20s he was really good. He fell off of a cliff after age 31-32 or so. He was really good with the Sox and Brewers. Astros Lee was meh. He was an offensive stud but his defense really drug his fWAR down. Edited July 31, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, ptatc said: You don't know that. Players are just like anyone else. If your company purposefully did something to make sure you didn't earn your rightful money, how would you feel. The Sox have every right to keep him down to gain the extra year. Just has he has every right to see this for what it is and be pissed about it and hold it against them when the FA negotiations start. It's the way of the world. Everyone knows the rules. The fact is, as great as Eloy has been, he hasn't played a whole heck of a lot. It's obviously an excuse, but it's a reasonable excuse. Is Kris Bryant's relationship with the Cubs broken? Is Carlos Correa's with Houston? Or George Springer? Players take advantage of what they can take advantage, and teams do as well. Keeping Eloy down while unprecedented for the White Sox, isn't an unprecedented move in MLB. I'm sure his agent has let him know the exact scoop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, ptatc said: You don't know that. Players are just like anyone else. If your company purposefully did something to make sure you didn't earn your rightful money, how would you feel. The Sox have every right to keep him down to gain the extra year. Just has he has every right to see this for what it is and be pissed about it and hold it against them when the FA negotiations start. Ok, what’s more likely? Him understanding the situation the team is in right now and wanting to maximize his time in the winning years or him holding a grudge? To me, it’s more likely he’ll understand- and the team will reward him later on for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Just now, Jack Parkman said: You talk about Lee like he sucked as a player. In his 20s he was really good. He fell off of a cliff after age 31-32 or so. He was really good with the Sox and Brewers. Astros Lee was meh. He had one really good year, a couple good years, and the rest of the time (nearly half his career) he was around 2 WAR. He was a solid regular that had a couple All-Star level years. Sox need more than that from Eloy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Just now, Tony said: You have zero way way of actually knowing this (obviously). So much can change with this franchise from now until 2024 or whatever it is. That includes winning, a new front office, a new owner, etc. You're right, we have no idea what things will be like in 7 years. They could be extreme either way, but the Sox might as well take the insurance with an extra year. Worst case scenerio, the team isn't what we all hope, that extra year will get you a bigger return if Eloy has to be traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: He had one really good year, a couple good years, and the rest of the time (nearly half his career) he was around 2 WAR. He was a solid regular that had a couple All-Star level years. Sox need more than that from Eloy. Eloy will never have crazy high fWAR numbers unless he is a DH. He is bad defensively, bordering on 2017 Schwarber bad. Edited July 31, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Tony said: I don't disagree. I hate the way things are currently structured and as a fan I have to make a decision in mind based on the finances of millionaires, but such is life. I'd love to be watching Eloy on the Sox right now. It certainly seems like he is ready. But I also understanding keeping him down for that extra year of control. I agree. I would love to watch him play, but if patience is required in a rebuild, patience it shall be, and that includes waiting for Eloy. Besides, all the fans who love draft position would appreciate Delmonico or Palka in the line up anyway. But if for some reason they do call him up, attending games becomes far more interesting. Edited July 31, 2018 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Sox need Eloy to be a superstar. A guy that is routinely putting up a wRC+ between 130-160 and who can defend his position enough to get to 5-8 WAR on a yearly basis. If he's not, the rebuild takes a step back. Eloy may play some OF early in his career, but I don't think he is going to be an OF long term. That is based purely on what I've read and watching him play on shitty minor league feeds. But he doesn't look particularly good out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 11 minutes ago, Tony said: You have zero way way of actually knowing this (obviously). So much can change with this franchise from now until 2024 or whatever it is. That includes winning, a new front office, a new owner, etc. I've got the entire operating history of the White Sox organization as support. Look, obviously Eloy may end up being the next Manny Ramirez and the Sox back up the brink truck and sign him to a $400M deal in the FA absolutely crushing their next highest contract given out. But I highly doubt that is going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: I've got the entire operating history of the White Sox organization as support. Then throw it out the window because pretty much everything they've done since December of 2016 would contradict your evidence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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