KW on Jimenez/Kopech

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Huh? They want to make "damn sure they have to use that last one"? That also makes no sense. They haven't used it, so what do you mean by "make sure they have to use it"? Are you trying to say "Make sure they have one in reserve just in case they have to use it"? 

What is he saying is that if Moncada (or Lopez or Giolito) were held in the minors until May 2018, they'd be out of options.  

[Balta1701]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Poor word choice, but yes, that is what I meant. 

So, in reply I would say that the White Sox aren't going to send him down unless he's hurt and there's no way that option is more valuable than the 2024  year of control they gave up. Within a couple years he would have to pass through waivers to be sent down anyway, and if he hits well enough to stay on the team this year (check) there's no way they're going to burn an option on him next year.

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

So, in reply I would say that the White Sox aren't going to send him down unless he's hurt and there's no way that option is more valuable than the 2024  year of control they gave up. Within a couple years he would have to pass through waivers to be sent down anyway, and if he hits well enough to stay on the team this year (check) there's no way they're going to burn an option on him next year.

Interesting argument, but I think they wanted it in their back pocket for some reason. 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

What is he saying is that if Moncada (or Lopez or Giolito) were held in the minors until May 2018, they'd be out of options.  

Lopez or Gio I can understand a tiny bit more because you could option them down next year to convert them into relievers, but I still find that unlikely and worth significantly less than the extra year of control we're now demanding from Jiminez. If they were held down until this year, they could also still have been sent down this year at any point.

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Lopez or Gio I can understand a tiny bit more because you could option them down next year to convert them into relievers, but I still find that unlikely and worth significantly less than the extra year of control we're now demanding from Jiminez. If they were held down until this year, they could also still have been sent down this year at any point.

They could all be sent down this year at some point and still use it. We're in August now, might as well keep it for 2019. There are only ~30 MiLB games left for the full season affiliates.  It would be a complete waste at this spot in the season. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[Buehrlesque]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

A September call up is different than playing for a substantial amount of time. I don't think I would do it for just September.  I would do it for August and September. I agree with that.it needs to be a substantial  amount of time.

Edit: I know he has with the braves. I had the springer and correa examples on my brain.

 

1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said:

I think this is the point that is being lost. We aren't talking about a couple weeks in September or 11 days in April, we're talking about 2.5 months of baseball, about half a season, and the player in question is making a joke out of minor league baseball. In all the examples that have been brought up, nobody has been as "ready" as Eloy, in my opinion. Springer and Bryant had major strikeout issues. Lindor and Correa weren't doing that well at AAA. 

 

33 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I'm glad you guys are getting your laughs but that's not what we're arguing. About 72 games (for this season and some of next April) times about 4.2 PA/G (White Sox hitters average 4.15 PA/G, and since Jimenez would likely bat somewhere 3-5, he would average more. I'm being generous by only adding the .05) is 303 PAs that Jimenez is not getting at the MLB level.

He's not gonna be a bust or bad player because he isn't getting that experience, but he also is not getting any better by not getting that experience. It's a significant amount of playing time. 

This is worth repeating. No one is saying that if Eloy is deemed "major-league ready" mid September to call him up for a week or two. He's ready now. Two plus months to end this season plus two weeks in April plus the mindset of going into next year on the OD roster is significant.

However, that means he needs to come up in the next week or so. If the Sox wait any later than that, the benefit is no longer significant enough, IMO.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Interesting argument, but I think they wanted it in their back pocket for some reason. 

I can still remember 2003 when Paul Konerko was terrible, I thought he should have been sent down, and they played him through it. For a more recent example, 2015 and 2016 Avisail Garcia was not good enough to be a big league player, especially on teams that kept insisting they were competitive. They had him play through it, and that was the right call for his development. They didn't send Anderson down last year either. The only way Moncada is seeing AAA again is via the disabled list or, eventually, after being non-tendered and signed by another franchise if somehow he totally flops. This team is rebuilding, even if Moncada is hitting .200 next July, he's not going to be the difference between us making and missing the playoffs, to the point where you'd send him down.

[Jose Abreu]

 

Does this mean anything?

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

Does this mean anything?

Someone hide Rick Hahn so Eloy doesn't hunt him down....those bats are gonna want to hit something tonight...

[Buehrlesque]

35 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

And what you will be giving up is control over 162 games when he is 28, which would seem to be when he would be at the top of his game, although there are no guarantees. That's the trade. I'll take the latter.

If they needed him for a WC push, or were going to be stacked next year, that's one thing. I just don't think it's very realistic to think they will be very good in 2019. He'll have plenty of time to develop. 

I understand what you're saying here, though I don't agree. If you think the Sox so-called "competitive window" isn't going to open until 2021 or something, then yeah, that's another point in favor of waiting to bring him up. I think the Sox want to and can compete earlier, an effort which is boosted by getting Eloy and Kopech in the fold now. To me, it would suck to miss out on a potential contender in 2019 or 2020 because we were worrying about the unknown of 2025, though I can understand why people would see things differently.

[BigHurt3515]

10 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

 

Does this mean anything?

How many off days does this kid need?

[DirtySox]

4 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

How many off days does this kid need?

/eyeball emojis

[Jose Abreu]

20 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

 

Does this mean anything?

 

5 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

/eyeball emojis

*resume eyeball emojis*

[fathom]

We know Hahn is there for one day as he's doing the live podcast tomorrow. 

[Jose Abreu]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

We know Hahn is there for one day as he's doing the live podcast tomorrow. 

Good point. And he does go to Charlotte with some regularity. I'll assume it's a coincidence that it also happens to be an off day for Eloy.

[fathom]

7 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Good point. And he does go to Charlotte with some regularity. I'll assume it's a coincidence that it also happens to be an off day for Eloy.

Maybe it's me, but if the GM is going to Charlotte to watch one game, you would think he'd want to see his prized prospect play?

[turnin' two]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Maybe it's me, but if the GM is going to Charlotte to watch one game, you would think he'd want to see his prized prospect play?

Fulmer will almost certainly get into the game. 

[SoxAce]

37 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

How many off days does this kid need?

The last box he hasn't checked yet.

[Jose Abreu]

Eloy: "I don't really know" [what boxes need to be checked]

 

[LittleHurt05]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

Maybe it's me, but if the GM is going to Charlotte to watch one game, you would think he'd want to see his prized prospect play?

And get tempted to call him up now? Hahn know better than that, theres nothing else he needs to see from Eloy.

[flavum]

Maybe he went there to tell Kopech and Jimenez to their faces they aren’t coming up until next April. Probably not, but you never know.

Whatever they’re going to do is probably a done deal, so I hope they make the right decision and won’t regret it in 2024 or whenever. 

[TaylorStSox]

1 hour ago, SoxAce said:

The last box he hasn't checked yet.

It was only funny the first 114 times it was used, damn it. 

[Dam8610]

5 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

It was only funny the first 114 times it was used, damn it. 

You really need to check the sense of humor box.

[southsider2k5]

One thing I will say, just because we don't know their plan, doesn't mean that Michael Kopech and Eloy Jimenez haven't been briefed either.  I am sure there have been plenty of detailed conversations with them and/or their agents.

[SoxBlanco]

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

One thing I will say, just because we don't know their plan, doesn't mean that Michael Kopech and Eloy Jimenez haven't been briefed either.  I am sure there have been plenty of detailed conversations with them and/or their agents.

Pardon my ignorance, but when GMs play the service clock game, do they really tell the players that’s what their plan is? I always assumed it was something that was never admitted, even though everyone knows what is happening, and the GMs know that everyone knows.