Jack Parkman Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Just now, soxfan49 said: So why can't you be in the middle? You aren't "believing it when you see it," you're already declaring him bad. You've said he sucks repeatedly. And the Hawks had a decade of being completely pathetic and unwatchable but you believed in a 5'8 winger just because the owner died? Kane and Toews showed their talent the moment they stepped on the ice. 20 games into the 07-08 season I was sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 42 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Wasn't some of the talent already here for the Bears, too? Leno, Long, Whitehair, Howard, Floyd, Hicks, Goldman, Fuller, Amos? After the Trestman era finished and the Bears fired both him and their GM I think most people in Chicago looked at that roster and said that the amount of talent there was awful. Several of the manes you say there - Howard, Floyd, Fuller, etc., they arrived since the start of the Bears' rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 16 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: So why can't you be in the middle? You aren't "believing it when you see it," you're already declaring him bad. You've said he sucks repeatedly. I reserve the right to change my opinion if the evidence presents itself. The default is "this guy sucks" and I haven't seen enough evidence to convince me otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tony said: But as is true in most cases, the basis of your argument is 100% flawed, which in previously cases you’ve openly admitted (which really begs the question why I even spend time going down this rabbit hole in the first place) Mitch Trubisky and Ryan Pace have absolutely nothing to do with Jay Cutler, Rex Grossman, Etc. Zero. You’re taking the absolute easiest and most meatball approach to the topic, rather than saying “The default is wait and see what this guy is” rather then “No he starts at this guy sucks no matter what anyone says because he plays the for Bears.” Now this is when you give your normal “Oh I know it’s irrational but this is just what I believe, maybe I’ll feel different tomorrow because my mind works like this.” Don’t bother. Yes, I know it is irrational but I just dont want to be disappointed. It is how I deal with 25 years of incompetence. I dont like getting excited and then getting disappointed repeatedly. This is my coping mechanism. Should I start at neutral? Probably. But even that I feel is giving management too much credit. Edited September 12, 2018 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: There is nothing unreasonable about saying "I'll believe it when I see it" about the Bears finding a decent QB. They have a 70 year track record of failure on that subject so I don't see what's so controversial about it. Because you are assuming that what happened 50 years ago has an influence on how Trubiskey plays. The Bears have never really had this type of offense with this talent. This in no way resembles the Payton right, Payton lect, Payton up the middle offenses of the 70s and 80s when they didn't need or want a QB. Don't live in the past, think positive for the future. There are untold possibilities. Edited September 12, 2018 by ptatc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ptatc said: Because you are assuming that what happened 50 years ago has an influence on how Trubiskey plays. The Bears have never really had this type of offense with this talent. This in no way resembles the Payton right, Payton lect, Payton up the middle offenses of the 70s and 80s when they didn't need or want a QB. Don't live in the past, think positive for the future. There are untold possibilities. Again, I don't trust George McCaskey or Ted Phillips so why would I trust whomever they hired to make football decisions? I have no reason to be anything but extremely skeptical about the Bears until they prove otherwise. Edited September 12, 2018 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Again, I don't trust George McCaskey or Ted Phillips so why would I trust whomever they hired to make football decisions? I have no reason to be anything but extremely skeptical about the Bears until they prove otherwise. You could look at it that way. Or you could say that Pace has really acquired some good players and the new coach showed some good innovations so maybe I'll give them a chance. This was the best the Bears have looked in awhile. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Balta1701 said: After the Trestman era finished and the Bears fired both him and their GM I think most people in Chicago looked at that roster and said that the amount of talent there was awful. Several of the manes you say there - Howard, Floyd, Fuller, etc., they arrived since the start of the Bears' rebuild. I don’t understand this post and who you’re agreeing/siding with. The argument is largely about Trubisky. Jack said that he believed in the Hawks because when Kane and Toews arrived, talent was already there, so he believed in them. My question then was “then why can’t you believe now? A lot of the talent is there for the Bears as well when Trubisky arrived” as I named 6-8 players. 3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: I reserve the right to change my opinion if the evidence presents itself. The default is "this guy sucks" and I haven't seen enough evidence to convince me otherwise. Wait, what? You say he sucks, and I question you. You then say that there’s nothing wrong with a “believe it when you see it” approach. Now you’re back to saying your approach is “he sucks.” Which is it, dude? Is it “he sucks” or “patiently waiting to judge.” You’re confusing the fuck out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: I don’t understand this post and who you’re agreeing/siding with. The argument is largely about Trubisky. Jack said that he believed in the Hawks because when Kane and Toews arrived, talent was already there, so he believed in them. My question then was “then why can’t you believe now? A lot of the talent is there for the Bears as well when Trubisky arrived” as I named 6-8 players. Wait, what? You say he sucks, and I question you. You then say that there’s nothing wrong with a “believe it when you see it” approach. Now you’re back to saying your approach is “he sucks.” Which is it, dude? Is it “he sucks” or “patiently waiting to judge.” You’re confusing the fuck out of me. Both are true. The assumption is Trubisky sucks until proven otherwise because he plays QB for the Chicago Bears. If evidence presents itself that he doesn't suck I'll say so. Go read the Anderson thread. I'll gladly change my mind when evidence points to me being wrong. Until I get that evidence, he sucks. The "wait and see" approach is twofold. 1) evidence presents itself that he doesn't suck. 2) evidence presents itself that he's good. It shouldn't have to be a 2 step process but the franchise has set the bar that low. Edited September 12, 2018 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Yeah. Mitch definitely has to learn to anticipate a guy open and throw it instead of waiting for the guy to be open. League is too fast. He missed a couple of guys like that in the 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 2 hours ago, StrangeSox said: If you see the video, it doesn't look quite as bad for Trubisky . Probably still should have thrown it, but it looks like his first read is to the right and then he looks at the middle. Clinton-Dix gets there pretty quick and Trubisky has a guy wide open to his left and that is the throw he makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, GoSox05 said: If you see the video, it doesn't look quite as bad for Trubisky . Probably still should have thrown it, but it looks like his first read is to the right and then he looks at the middle. Clinton-Dix gets there pretty quick and Trubisky has a guy wide open to his left and that is the throw he makes. This was also one play after he missed a wide open Allen Robinson for an easy TD that said, the screen grab itself does make it look a lot worse than the video. Edited September 12, 2018 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 minute ago, StrangeSox said: This was also one play after he missed a wide open Allen Robinson for an easy TD If he pulls the trigger on that right away, it's a touchdown. If he's late, Clinton-Dix is probably going the other way with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) Yeah I did edit that post above, it's not quite as hilarious looking in the video because C-D is sprinting to the wide open receiver. It's more that a more experienced QB may have recognized Burton coming free off the line rather than sticking to his scripted first read. I'm sure most, if not all, young QB's have plays like that. It was more of a laugh-at-this-ridiculous-screenshot post than a serious criticism of Trubisky. The Robinson miss was actually probably the worse play Edited September 12, 2018 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 12 hours ago, ptatc said: You could look at it that way. Or you could say that Pace has really acquired some good players and the new coach showed some good innovations so maybe I'll give them a chance. This was the best the Bears have looked in awhile. I don't want to overreact in a negative way because it was the best half of football i've seen from the Bears in years, HOWEVA, let's take a look at what actually happened: (1) a really good first drive on the first drive of the season for a unit that didn't play in the preseason. A LOT of that success was due to the fact that GB had no idea WTF the Bears were doing. After about two drives all of that went away and the offense became the same average-or-worse offense from last year. (2) While Mack is an all-NFL talent, it's a lucky break that he stifled a GB drive (in which they marched down the field and were nearing a TD) with that strip fumble, and then the interception for a TD. (3) GB played that half without Rodgers for a big chunk of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I have a buddy who breaks down tape for the Tribune. He sent me this feedback along with the image at the end of this post which is quite damning. Bears- Notes from Packers game: 6 3rd and 1’s, didn’t run with Howard once in any of those spots. Nick Kwiatkowski gave up 56 yards on 5 of 6 passes, 32 yards after catch. The one incompletion was Mack’s INT. 1 blitz the entire 2nd half against a hobbled Rodgers. Roquan Smith played 8 snaps all game. Khalil Mack still not in complete game shape after missing the entire preseason and training camp, his legs were giving out on him in the 2nd half. Mack played 70% of the Bears snaps on Sunday, look for him to be closer to 85-90% the rest of the season. Bears first 15 plays were phenomenal almost as if they had the 1st 15 plays scripted and then after that the play calls began to go downhill. Nagy needs to be better in that area. Trubisky missed Trey Burton wide open on the 3rd and 1 play with 3 minutes left in the game, needs to trust his arm more. ( see below) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 That Burton picture is unfair. It was a play action call, so his back is toward Burton as he initially breaks. If he throws that, HHCD gets an easy pick. If Burton continues to run and he leads him, Kentrell Brice jumps and gets an easy pick. The miss to Robinson on the fade was much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 50 minutes ago, StrangeSox said: Yeah I did edit that post above, it's not quite as hilarious looking in the video because C-D is sprinting to the wide open receiver. It's more that a more experienced QB may have recognized Burton coming free off the line rather than sticking to his scripted first read. I'm sure most, if not all, young QB's have plays like that. It was more of a laugh-at-this-ridiculous-screenshot post than a serious criticism of Trubisky. The Robinson miss was actually probably the worse play Didn’t see this post, so I posted above. I should have just quoted you since we said the same thing haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 "Bears first 15 plays were phenomenal almost as if they had the 1st 15 plays scripted " Should I read this as sarcasm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I still think that's wrong, if he leads him high and to the right it would be incredibly hard. Burton also could have started running in. One of those things you hope gets better as they run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) Who wants Dan Orlovsky's opinions? If he throws it right there, yes, it could be picked. But if he throws it to that spot when Trey is at the goal post and running to the right, it's a TD Edited September 12, 2018 by Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Brian said: Who wants Dan Orlovsky's opinions? If he throws it right there, yes, it could be picked. But if he throws it to that spot when Trey is at the goal post and running to the right, it's a TD Exactly. If those other people are right, then you basically can't call any receiver open ever. You throw when he makes the break, not when he's already 10 yards open. Or you throw it lower and to the right so HaHa has even more ground to cover. Edited September 12, 2018 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Steve9347 said: I have a buddy who breaks down tape for the Tribune. He sent me this feedback along with the image at the end of this post which is quite damning. Bears- Notes from Packers game: 6 3rd and 1’s, didn’t run with Howard once in any of those spots. Nick Kwiatkowski gave up 56 yards on 5 of 6 passes, 32 yards after catch. The one incompletion was Mack’s INT. 1 blitz the entire 2nd half against a hobbled Rodgers. Roquan Smith played 8 snaps all game. Khalil Mack still not in complete game shape after missing the entire preseason and training camp, his legs were giving out on him in the 2nd half. Mack played 70% of the Bears snaps on Sunday, look for him to be closer to 85-90% the rest of the season. Bears first 15 plays were phenomenal almost as if they had the 1st 15 plays scripted and then after that the play calls began to go downhill. Nagy needs to be better in that area. Trubisky missed Trey Burton wide open on the 3rd and 1 play with 3 minutes left in the game, needs to trust his arm more. ( see below) Your points 2 and 3 will cancel each other out. Once Smith is ready to play Kwiatkowski will not be in there during the pass coverage much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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