bmags Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said: I can see where you're coming with this since a lot of people are tired of hearing of Trubs inexperience but I just hope that a year working with Nagy on the bench is what really helped Mahomes and if so, it does the same trick for Mitch. We'll find out by the last month of the season. I hope so too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 41 minutes ago, bmags said: What's amazing about the KC offense with Mahomes is the exploitation of the 15-20 yard routes that emerge in zone schemes OR break open with time in man. He's getting great time back there and just trusting that finds itself each play, it's awesome. And, sorry to be anti-trubs talking points, BUT the big ? on Mahomes was that he was "so raw" coming out. Nobody is making "it's his 3rd career start!" excuses for him. Suddenly he's the polished prospect. Mahomes was a gun-slinger in an offense that never produced NFL talent despite any QB in that system always putting up huge college numbers. Trubisky played 13 games. Trubisky was raw coming out. Mahomes was simply in a bad offense to transition out of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Mahomes was a gun-slinger in an offense that never produced NFL talent despite any QB in that system always putting up huge college numbers. Trubisky played 13 games. Trubisky was raw coming out. Mahomes was simply in a bad offense to transition out of. No, we aren't going to re-write what "raw" means to fit Mitch Trubisky. The Texas Tech offense is not relatable to NFL, he was in shotgun every snap, he had simplified reads, and he had unpolished footwork. He was considered very raw. Mitch was also considered raw, but now only one QBs "raw" is an excuse while the others is forgotten about. But anyway, Mitch needs to show me a good performance tonight, but also this is a game that should pound Jordan Howard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, bmags said: No, we aren't going to re-write what "raw" means to fit Mitch Trubisky. The Texas Tech offense is not relatable to NFL, he was in shotgun every snap, he had simplified reads, and he had unpolished footwork. He was considered very raw. Mitch was also considered raw, but now only one QBs "raw" is an excuse while the others is forgotten about. But anyway, Mitch needs to show me a good performance tonight, but also this is a game that should pound Jordan Howard. I'm not rewriting it. Everyone knew what "raw" meant for Trubisky. He played 13 games in 4 calendar years. He had next to no on-field time to fix his bad tendencies and improve on his good ones, and when he did, he was also in a goofy system where he was in the shotgun almost every snap as well (granted, not as nuts at Texas Tech's). Mahomes had a ton of time to those things in college, and then he had a year behind Andy Reid and Alex Smith. I'm not making excuses, but what I just said is nothing but the truth. Agree on Howard. He should have 22+ carries and Cohen should have another 8+. Literally guys as talented as you and I are playing linebacker for Seattle tonight. Edited September 17, 2018 by soxfan49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 It's amazing how Seattle went from the best defense in the NFL to the one of the worst in a couple years. Things change fast in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, GoSox05 said: It's amazing how Seattle went from the best defense in the NFL to the one of the worst in a couple years. Things change fast in the NFL. They had a long run of being a top ten defense. What's more amazing to me is how they had equally long a run of a bad offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, bmags said: They had a long run of being a top ten defense. What's more amazing to me is how they had equally long a run of a bad offensive line. You would think would want to protect Wilson. I think they are kind of in a transition from being defense minded to being an offense first type team. I wouldn't be surprised if Carroll is gone after this year. I think they are going to be really bad this year. They might win a few at home, but they look like 5-6 win team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 17 minutes ago, bmags said: They had a long run of being a top ten defense. What's more amazing to me is how they had equally long a run of a bad offensive line. They had the worst $ investment in their O-Line in football for a number of years. It shows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, BigSqwert said: They had the worst $ investment in their O-Line in football for a number of years. It shows! True, but it felt like they spent a lot of draft capital and it still was not working out. Though I should probably qualify it was pass blocking they were truly terrible at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 They've had some interesting O-line draft picks. They haven't taken a ton of o-line players early in the last three drafts, but when they do it's been hit or miss type guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 hour ago, GoSox05 said: It's amazing how Seattle went from the best defense in the NFL to the one of the worst in a couple years. Things change fast in the NFL. Sherman got cut, Avril and Chancellor retired, and they traded Bennett. That'll do it. 1 hour ago, BigSqwert said: They had the worst $ investment in their O-Line in football for a number of years. It shows! 1 hour ago, GoSox05 said: You would think would want to protect Wilson. I think they are kind of in a transition from being defense minded to being an offense first type team. I wouldn't be surprised if Carroll is gone after this year. I think they are going to be really bad this year. They might win a few at home, but they look like 5-6 win team. Kind of reminds me of how the Bears seemingly never invested in the OL from 2007-2011, and when they did (Carimi, Williams, Omiyale), the guys stunk. Not sure why any organization would invest so much into a QB and then not find capable blocking, but I hope Mack, Floyd and Hicks make them regret it tonight. Agree on the 5-6 wins. If Wilson were to suffer a serious injury, they might go 1-15/2-14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 hour ago, bmags said: True, but it felt like they spent a lot of draft capital and it still was not working out. Though I should probably qualify it was pass blocking they were truly terrible at You have to wonder how much Wilson running around (while effective) makes it harder to actually pass block. I kind of think Wilson's feet (which make him electric) also cause major issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champagne030 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, soxfan49 said: Mahomes was a gun-slinger in an offense that never produced NFL talent despite any QB in that system always putting up huge college numbers. Trubisky played 13 games. Trubisky was raw coming out. Mahomes was simply in a bad offense to transition out of. i'll assume you mean that Tech never produced NFL QB talent. Mahomes is a different cat from those other rag arm guys. He has the strongest arm in the NFL. And don't kid yourself about the "Air-Raid" offense. It's going to be the norm in the NFL. There's a reason 26 teams sent coaches to OU the past two years to learn from Lincoln Riley. Trubisky was raw because he never played/couldn't beat out a scrub and Mahomes dominated in an offense that the NFL is now adopting. Mitch might turn out fine, but he's miles behind Mahomes at this point. Edited September 17, 2018 by champagne030 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said: You have to wonder how much Wilson running around (while effective) makes it harder to actually pass block. I kind of think Wilson's feet (which make him electric) also cause major issues. I actually think Wilson being able to avoid pressure and run has bailed them out on not having a good o-line, but you think with Wilson getting older they would want to keep him healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, champagne030 said: i'll assume you mean that Tech never produced NFL QB talent. Mahomes is a different cat from those other rag arm guys. He has the strongest arm in the NFL. And don't kid yourself about the "Air-Raid" offense. It's going to be the norm in the NFL. There's a reason 26 teams sent coaches to OU the past two years to learn from Lincoln Riley. Trubisky was raw because he never played/couldn't beat out a scrub and Mahomes dominated in an offense that the NFL is now adopting. Mitch might turn out fine, but he's miles behind Mahomes at this point. Yeah, that's exactly what I said: Mahomes was a gun-slinger in an offense that never produced NFL talent. Tech has never produced a big time NFL QB until now. And yes, that's also what I said. Because of Mahomes' consistent starts in college and the one year behind Smith/Reid, he's gotten an invaluable head start. He's looking great. Hopefully Trubisky looks great soon as well. EDIT- I see the confusion. I said "in an offense" rather than "at a school that never produced NFL talent." Yes, I meant at a school. Edited September 17, 2018 by soxfan49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 15 minutes ago, GoSox05 said: I actually think Wilson being able to avoid pressure and run has bailed them out on not having a good o-line, but you think with Wilson getting older they would want to keep him healthy. Yeah there is nuance but I lean toward your thinking. I think for good "improv" qbs like rodgers and wilson their tendency to keep plays alive can make olines more vulnerable to bad reputations than say, Brady. And I think Bevell maybe exacerbated it with a simplistic run-first offense that made passing situations all or nothing, but also just think seattle's oline was bad in a way that GB/NE's never has been. They could try a pass quick offense but it kind of neuters what makes Wilson great, so they really should load up on Oline now that most of their expensive defensive pieces are gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 3 hours ago, TheTruth05 said: I can see where you're coming with this since a lot of people are tired of hearing of Trubs inexperience but I just hope that a year working with Nagy on the bench is what really helped Mahomes and if so, it does the same trick for Mitch. We'll find out by the last month of the season. Yeah - The big difference to me is Mahomes is in year 2 of a system and his wideouts (outside of Watkins) are experienced in the system). Trubisky has had an off-season in the system and his wideouts (by and large) have the same level of experience with that system (additionally, they also have minimal experience with Trubisky since none of his main weapons were around last year). You also have someone like Robinson who is coming back from an injury which compounds things as well. Over the course of the season, this should normalize, but I'm going to try and limit short-term reactions and focus on the long. If that long is bad, than its bad, but hopefully it will be good. I don't think any reaction based upon week 1 would really make me any more informed about Biscuit's long term success. Now if we break it down into the 4 quarters of the season and isolate his progress under each 4 game span, I think that will become more meaningful and hopefully will show a favorable trend. All that said, I hope Biscuit goes out and throws for 6 TD's tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 hour ago, bmags said: Yeah there is nuance but I lean toward your thinking. I think for good "improv" qbs like rodgers and wilson their tendency to keep plays alive can make olines more vulnerable to bad reputations than say, Brady. And I think Bevell maybe exacerbated it with a simplistic run-first offense that made passing situations all or nothing, but also just think seattle's oline was bad in a way that GB/NE's never has been. They could try a pass quick offense but it kind of neuters what makes Wilson great, so they really should load up on Oline now that most of their expensive defensive pieces are gone I would be surprised if this wasn't there main goal going forward. Probably should have started doing it last year, but they had a lot of question marks of who was coming back on defense and what not. Not only o-line, but they need WR as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Replace "Mahomes" in every post with "Watson" and that's what you had last year. NFL fans are so reactionary. We're literally years from knowing who's better between Mahomes, Watson, and Trubisky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Pats get Josh Gordon. Not bad for a conditional 5th round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said: Pats get Josh Gordon. Not bad for a conditional 5th round pick. This is a good move for the Pats. I'd have said it would have been a bad move for the Bears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said: This is a good move for the Pats. I'd have said it would have been a bad move for the Bears. If the condition is 'games played without a suspension' I'd say it's good. Their receiver situation was horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, bmags said: If the condition is 'games played without a suspension' I'd say it's good. Their receiver situation was horrendous. Pats are living one season at a time so in their case, if they bet right, he fills a major need for the year and if they don't, they aren't any worse off. I feel a team like the Niners would not have served well by getting Gordon...they have a longer term need at playmaker and I don't see how any sane person can bet long-term on Gordon. You know he'll get suspended at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 5 hours ago, soxfan49 said: I'm not rewriting it. Everyone knew what "raw" meant for Trubisky. He played 13 games in 4 calendar years. He had next to no on-field time to fix his bad tendencies and improve on his good ones, and when he did, he was also in a goofy system where he was in the shotgun almost every snap as well (granted, not as nuts at Texas Tech's). fwiw this is why I still think not just drafting him #3 but trading a ton to draft him #2 was insane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Trubisky looks awful once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts