FS: Checking the Boxes - a rock and a hard place

[Kyyle23]

1 hour ago, TaylorStSox said:

A week later and "checking the boxes" is as worn out as your Dad's white Nikes. 

can i change your group name to "Box Checker"

[Dick Allen]

It would be hard to really determine, but are there any examples of players who stayed a month or two too long in AAA and it appears that damaged their development ? And if so, was it temporary or permanent?

 

[Baker]

There’s a fairness issue here. Kris Bryant has sued the Cubs over this and there’s no chance he’ll resign with them. Secondly, that 4th year Arb has only a little surplus financial value. The 4th year money is pegged at 80% of fair market value. If Eloy is a 4 WAR player that will come to about $27 M for that extra year. Not much surplus value there. That’s J. D. Martinez money. The man is ready. 

[Wanne]

4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

It would be hard to really determine, but are there any examples of players who stayed a month or two too long in AAA and it appears that damaged their development ? And if so, was it temporary or permanent?

 

If it pisses off said player and sours him on the franchise...I'd say it's permanent.  I keep going back and forth on this.  I really do understand that extra year of control thing...I get it. You don't want to lose you star player early.  Which is why you should probably do everything in your power to keep said star player happy...which honestly means bringing him up. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Wanne

[GreenSox]

8 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Except with Moncada and all the other guys called up last season. 

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying but those other guys I believe had called up before by their prior teams so clocks were already running.  Also, the development of Moncada and the 3 pitchers hasn't exactly excelled so maybe they want to take a different track and zig-zagging is something they've done numerous times during their years in the FO.  

[Heads22]

I 100% understand both sides of the argument.

I'd really love to see what Eloy and Kopech could do in the majors. I can see a world where it'd be really nice to have that extra year. I can also see none of it mattering with who knows what situation we will be in in 2024/5.

So yes, I agree with everyone.

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying but those other guys I believe had called up before by their prior teams so clocks were already running.  Also, the development of Moncada and the 3 pitchers hasn't exactly excelled so maybe they want to take a different track and zig-zagging is something they've done numerous times during their years in the FO.  

That's not how it works, it's not been a "clock that starts" for several CBA's. That's how it worked in the mid-2000s, now it is instead total number of days on the 25 man big league roster. Even though they'd been called up previously, it was only for short stints, and they could have done the same thing people want to do with Jiminez by keeping those 3 down a short while longer. It might not have been 2 weeks like it would be for Jiminez, but for Moncada for example it would have only been 3 and a half weeks. If he was called up May 1 of this year, it would have burned a minor league option for this year, but it would have given the White Sox control over him through 2024. Ditto the other guys.

If this is such a big deal for Jiminez then I can't figure out why it wasn't a big deal for those guys.

[pcq]

Hahn indicated that Eloy needs work on defense. He hasn't checked all of the boxes yet. 

[SonofaRoache]

I understand why it makes sense to bring them up next year but as a franchise who hasn't made the playoffs in 10 years, we are in no position to piss off prospects. We need to call them up if they are ready to get the newness out the way the last month or two of the season. Next year, they can experience the struggles of being .500, which gives them added experience for the 2020 season. Rick and Kenny need to do their jobs and figure out what players will need to be paid and how much. They also need figure out a strategy to convince the guys they want to stay for a second contract, where pissing off prospects in the beginning may come into play. The Cubs can do this with Kris Bryant because they are a team players would die to play for, we are not.

[SonofaRoache]

8 hours ago, pcq said:

Hahn indicated that Eloy needs work on defense. He hasn't checked all of the boxes yet. 

What work will Eloy need on defense and how will staying in AAA help with it? He's not a good defender and that won't change anytime soon. It's a great excuse for holding him until next year as I'm sure his defense will be good enough for a promotion in May.

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

I understand why it makes sense to bring them up next year but as a franchise who hasn't made the playoffs in 10 years, we are in no position to piss off prospects. We need to call them up if they are ready to get the newness out the way the last month or two of the season. Next year, they can experience the struggles of being .500, which gives them added experience for the 2020 season. Rick and Kenny need to do their jobs and figure out what players will need to be paid and how much. They also need figure out a strategy to convince the guys they want to stay for a second contract, where pissing off prospects in the beginning may come into play. The Cubs can do this with Kris Bryant because they are a team players would die to play for, we are not.

This was not the case when they did that.   They were coming multiple 100 loss seasons, they were not this desirable team that we now see

[SonofaRoache]

Just now, Kyyle23 said:

This was not the case when they did that.   They were coming multiple 100 loss seasons, they were not this desirable team that we now see

The Cubs sucked but they are still a team players want to play for. They get a huge market, great fanbase, great experience and community, etc. If Bryant was pissed at the time, the winning coupled with the aforementioned factors would convince him to stay. Instead of strong arming prospects I think we need to do our part in making our team one where players want to come to, or stay at if the money is equal. I'm more concerned about this than I am a year of control.

[Dick Allen]

14 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

That's not how it works, it's not been a "clock that starts" for several CBA's. That's how it worked in the mid-2000s, now it is instead total number of days on the 25 man big league roster. Even though they'd been called up previously, it was only for short stints, and they could have done the same thing people want to do with Jiminez by keeping those 3 down a short while longer. It might not have been 2 weeks like it would be for Jiminez, but for Moncada for example it would have only been 3 and a half weeks. If he was called up May 1 of this year, it would have burned a minor league option for this year, but it would have given the White Sox control over him through 2024. Ditto the other guys.

If this is such a big deal for Jiminez then I can't figure out why it wasn't a big deal for those guys.

So I guess you would endorse Kopech coming up and being a reliever/closer for a while, since that is what they did with Sale.  Everything must be the same.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Middle Buffalo]

I have no problem with the Sox waiting until September to promote their young talent. And my preference with any young pitcher is to send him to the bullpen to work middle relief for a little while just to let them get accustomed to MLB and not have days between starts to doubt themselves if they have a bad outing.