"Magic/al" Madrigal

[caulfield12]

I've spent a lot of time back home here in the Quad Cities listening to Cubs' games and the SCORE and I've noticed that Coomer and Hughes are using the nickname "Magic" for Javier Baez.

But, after finally getting around to listening to this podcast (and the one right before the June draft with his OSU coach), Nick Madrigal is eventually going to be the one eventually "stealing" that nickname away.

https://art19.com/shows/white-sox-podcast/episodes/e3557c6b-b05c-45b5-be8d-02c11deeb208

Listening to him, this was probably the first time I believed...just maybe...that the rebuild was going to work, that they could win another World Series in my lifetime.

I don't particularly believe in Hahn, but I believe in players (typical Ozzie witticism, but he was right on this)...and this kid just has that something special that will rub off on his teammates and make the Sox a better team in the middle of 2020 (at the latest).

He just plays the game the right way, and, while he's obviously not going to put up 1.000 OPS numbers like an Eloy Jimenez, I do think he'll end up having a tremendous impact on Tim Anderson and Moncada in particular...especially their lack of focus on what they're actually up at the plate to accomplish each time they go up there.  (This has been one of the biggest pet peaves for White Sox fans who have grown up with "garbage" baseball the last 6 years...as opposed to "corpseball" the previous decade.)

He will automatically improve the defense, and he'll be like the captain or player-manager out on the field.  I'm pretty sure (the podcast was his last day at Kanny, last Thursday morning) that he was moved up to Winston-Salem largely to take advantage of the time to be around Omar Vizquel and soak up his wisdom/knowlege/insights forat least a month.   It was also very clear that he was impressed by Justin Jirschele's desire and willingness to win, even though he was only there one week.

So I'll make a prediction that Vizquel is at Birmingham next year and Jirschele moved up to Winston-Salem.  One of those two guys will be the next White Sox manager, IMO.

The thing that really stood out to me in that interview was talking about winning a World Series (from most other players' mouths, it seems like a cliche or just something they say because they're expected to say it), about always being the first one to the field and setting an example (he doesn't explicitly say it, but you can feel it...and the fact that he's never ever really thought much about being the youngest and shortest player in almost every competitive athletic situation because he feels his work ethic and practice/routine make him the biggest player on the field.  That he's never thought about what kind of career he would have if he was 6'0".

As I said, I don't know how great a hitter he can be...I expect he'll settle in around 750-775 unless he can really increase his walk numbers...but I do think he's the most important position player in this rebuild because of the positive influence he'll have on the rest of his teammates (especially about the strikeout issue and fouling off pitches).  I know this all sounds like what we used to hear constantly about Tim Tebow, but listening to this guy and his college coach and Hostetler, it's hard not to be convinced to believe in this guy who has proven the doubters wrong his entire life (just like Altuve or Nellie Fox or whoever we want to compare him to...)  Another thing that was pretty cool is the fact that his twin brother also made it as a Division 1 pitcher at that height.  Beyond our middle infielders, I think he's going to get along really well with Collins, who will hopefully evolve into a leader at that position (Tyler Flowers never assumed that role, the constant turnover at catcher has been yet one more flaw in the last decade of Sox baseball) along with Nick.

Finally, I think there's nothing to worry about with who's going to play exactly which infield/outfield position.  Whether it's the Brewers, Cubs, Dodgers (http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/24267936/is-positionless-baseball-mlb-next-big-thing)

the trend is now upon us, unless they add 1-2 more players to each roster in order to avoid so many position players pitching in blowout games.  We already have (had) a lot of players that fit that bill in Saladino, Leury, Yolmer, Cordell...it's just that they're all essentially utility or role players instead of starters, but the running game and aggressiveness are already starting to come around this season, and it will only increase in the future with the additions of players like Madrigal, Robert and Basabe. 

While Madrigal is not "Baseball Jesus," I do think we're underestimating the difference that one player can make in turning around the attitude of an entire organization...everyone is merely looking at his stature and statistical projections (see allusions to Darwin Barney, who also played at OSU), but baseball is about so many more things that Madrigal does instinctively and we'll realize after watching him day after day, start to truly appreciate him, and wonder why all players don't have that "team first" mindset (obviously part of the answer is the fixation on launch angle and power numbers).

Chicks dig winners/winning teams more than the longball.  And Rudy wins the day!

 

Edited August 6, 2018 by caulfield12

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I need a "Madrigal Elektromotoren" White Sox shirt made. ASAP.

[Jose Abreu]

Personally I don’t see the reason to think he’ll be a surefire starter if he’s a 750-775 OPS guy as you mentioned, especially when Moncada projects to be well in the .800s as he continues his development

[TaylorStSox]

I just want to go on record and say, tl;dr. 

[caulfield12]

11 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Personally I don’t see the reason to think he’ll be a surefire starter if he’s a 750-775 OPS guy as you mentioned, especially when Moncada projects to be well in the .800s as he continues his development

Because his defense and speed will kick his fWAR value up by 1 to 1.5 alone, making him a 3.5-4.0 value player...and either his power numbers or walks/OBP will creep up as well.

As it stands, Moncada and Anderson are barely 700 ops guys...do you really see Anderson ever getting to even 800?  If we’re going by that criterion, then you have to keep Avi, because Jimenez and Collins are the only advanced hitters that should be above that mark.

Of our other hitting prospects, it’s hard to do much more than squint to see any surefire results, at least 800 and above...Robert, I guess?

And the point of everything I wrote was to articulate exactly why OPS wasn’t the be all and end all with Madrigal.  Far from it, in fact.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I just want to go on record and say, tl;dr. 

It’s a free world here at SoxTalk, perhaps moreso than anywhere else (I’ll go with the “mods have gotten softer/kinder/busier/too rich from investing in Amazon explanation.”)

[Jose Abreu]

24 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Because his defense and speed will kick his fWAR value up by 1 to 1.5 alone, making him a 3.5-4.0 value player...and either his power numbers or walks/OBP will creep up as well.

As it stands, Moncada and Anderson are barely 700 ops guys...do you really see Anderson ever getting to even 800?  If we’re going by that criterion, then you have to keep Avi, because Jimenez and Collins are the only advanced hitters that should be above that mark.

Of our other hitting prospects, it’s hard to do much more than squint to see any surefire results, at least 800 and above...Robert, I guess?

And the point of everything I wrote was to articulate exactly why OPS wasn’t the be all and end all with Madrigal.  Far from it, in fact.

I just don't subscribe to the idea that Moncada's defense is so bad that he needs to be moved. His range stats are top 3 in baseball for second basemen and I trust that he'll iron out the misplays on easy balls.

I don't see Anderson ever getting to .800, to answer your question, but I do see him getting to .775 or so, which, in addition to his newfound defensive prowess and baserunning value, does make him valuable overall. However if anyone is getting moved or traded for Madrigal, I would guess that it's Anderson and not Moncada. 

Anyway, I agree that OPS is not the best stat to judge a player like Madrigal, but I still question that he'll be a more valuable 2B than Moncada long-term, especially if he doesn't walk. 

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I just don't subscribe to the idea that Moncada's defense is so bad that he needs to be moved. His range stats are top 3 in baseball for second basemen and I trust that he'll iron out the misplays on easy balls.

I don't see Anderson ever getting to .800, to answer your question, but I do see him getting to .775 or so, which, in addition to his newfound defensive prowess and baserunning value, does make him valuable overall. However if anyone is getting moved or traded for Madrigal, I would guess that it's Anderson and not Moncada. 

Anyway, I agree that OPS is not the best stat to judge a player like Madrigal, but I still question that he'll be a more valuable 2B than Moncada long-term, especially if he doesn't walk. 

The way things are currently going in baseball, there are going to be more and more players rotating all around the diamond...like Baez, Zobrist, Happ, Bryant, etc.  Russell can play 2b, too, although he doesn’t move anymore.

[Quin]

But why is there a dash in Magical

[Buehrlesque]

Moncada is the best fit at 3B. I hope he is accepts that role in the future because, barring an unexpected acquisition, that's where he'll be if Madrigal arrives as planned.

[bmags]

4 minutes ago, Quinarvy said:

But why is there a dash in Magical

In caulfield's epic there is a part about how baez is referred to as magic and I think that's an extension of that nickname because he thinks madrigal will be good, too, and has a similar nickname of magical i think.

[Superstar Lamar]

The Madrigal World Of Nicky

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Great post Caulfield. Madrigal is surely a throwback to another era. Let's hope his talent translates to the Sox and his competitive spirit and desires rub off on his team mates and doesn't end up rubbing them the wrong way.

Mad Regal ? Hail the Mad King . Baseball's new Royalty .

[chitownsportsfan]

Sox need more good players.  Later for all that other stuff.  I'm with ozzie on that one.  Horse shit players and teams lose games and seasons.

Baseball is about 10 guys on any given night doing their own thing to help the club, as far as "leadership" exists it's a base hit or walk down 1 leading off the 9th.

That said, we talked about that podcast when he was drafted, it certainly sounds like the Sox got a player.

[Panerista]

31 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Great post Caulfield. Madrigal is surely a throwback to another era. Let's hope his talent translates to the Sox and his competitive spirit and desires rub off on his team mates and doesn't end up rubbing them the wrong way.

Mad Regal ? Hail the Mad King . Baseball's new Royalty .

Mad King.  Done.  Well deduced.  

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

46 minutes ago, AustinIllini said:

Mad King.  Done.  Well deduced.  

Thank's I've been saying and posting "Mad Regal"  since shortly after he was drafted . Seemed logical if not very catchy .

[caulfield12]

Maybe to blow up my points total...I can just start typing “too long/didn’t read” to every Balta post these days if that’s the feedback received from taking an hour or so to try to actually write something thoughtful.?

One thing that’s kind of illogical is that just being snarky gets more instantaneous feedback than attempting to have a legitimate discussion about something.  That’s all well and good, I guess...and I could care less about likes and dislikes in the Filibuster, where have spent proportionately more time since 2016) but I’m not sure what it’s actually adding (other than being slightly better than downvoting others intentionally when we had a 1-5 “community scale.”)

 

Edited August 6, 2018 by caulfield12

[Superstar Lamar]

The Madrigal Mystery Tour

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Superstar Lamar said:

The Madrigal Mystery Tour

Also a very solid +1 here.

[caulfield12]

I will give him a +1 for the (possible) Lamar Johnson reference, just because it caused me to recall those crazy collared jerseys.

[yesterday333]

8 minutes ago, Superstar Lamar said:

The Madrigal Mystery Tour

This is the best...

[flavum]

I’ve had the urge to call him Madge. Not to feminize him, but because it’s one syllable and faster to say/write.

[wrathofhahn]

The "Madrigal Midget"?

Edited August 7, 2018 by wrathofhahn

[bmags]

Nicky Madronico

[wrathofhahn]

On 8/6/2018 at 12:11 PM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Great post Caulfield. Madrigal is surely a throwback to another era. Let's hope his talent translates to the Sox and his competitive spirit and desires rub off on his team mates and doesn't end up rubbing them the wrong way.

Mad Regal ? Hail the Mad King . Baseball's new Royalty .

I don't want a throwback to another era I want a player who plays well in this era. To me he'll be a .750 ish OPS SS/2B at the next level which is useful just not someone you take 4th overall.

He's going to have to show 20HR power to be more and maybe he does who knows but with these small guys that is not a bet I'd want to make with the 4th pick.