caulfield12 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 For example yesterday’s game, what’s the first rule in baseball? On second base, don’t try to advance when the ball is hit to your right...Delmonico, what did he do? Got thrown out at third for the first out when we were down 4 runs. Anderson later advanced on a WP to get them back to the same baseball situation, runner on second, 1 out. But that really let the air out of the balloon...and Anderson should have been trying to hit the ball the other way in the first place, so there were actually two mistakes. In the end, he hit a homer on a 98 mph fastball and made an error, so a typical Anderson game. Lots of potential, raw, but we are still saying that at the end of year 3. I don’t think anyone is convinced we have the coaching staff in place to bring out the full potential in these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 31 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: For example yesterday’s game, what’s the first rule in baseball? On second base, don’t try to advance when the ball is hit to your right...Delmonico, what did he do? Got thrown out at third for the first out when we were down 4 runs. Anderson later advanced on a WP to get them back to the same baseball situation, runner on second, 1 out. But that really let the air out of the balloon...and Anderson should have been trying to hit the ball the other way in the first place, so there were actually two mistakes. In the end, he hit a homer on a 98 mph fastball and made an error, so a typical Anderson game. Lots of potential, raw, but we are still saying that at the end of year 3. I don’t think anyone is convinced we have the coaching staff in place to bring out the full potential in these guys. And this all has to do with Rick Hahn’s background. Thank you caulfield for tying it all together as you do 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: And this all has to do with Rick Hahn’s background. Thank you caulfield for tying it all together as you do You can’t read Dick Allen’s previous comment and see what he wrote at the end of it? Fine, we can go back and quote it. “The clock should be ticking. Yes, this year was bound to suck. Next year wasn't bound to suck, but it's looking like that may change. There needs to be improvement, not only with the talent level, but with how they play the game.“ Should I start a separate thread? Insert it into the game thread? Isn’t Rick Hahn in charge of every aspect of the way the team plays the game? If not, he can fire Renteria, right? Did giving Ventura all of 2014, 15 and 16 to fix what took place in 2013 rectify the mistakes in fundamentals? Edited August 9, 2018 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: You can’t read Dick Allen’s previous comment and see what he wrote at the end of it? Fine, we can go back and quote it. “The clock should be ticking. Yes, this year was bound to suck. Next year wasn't bound to suck, but it's looking like that may change. There needs to be improvement, not only with the talent level, but with how they play the game.“ Should I start a separate thread? Insert it into the game thread? Isn’t Rick Hahn in charge of every aspect of the way the team plays the game? If not, he can fire Renteria, right? Did giving Ventura all of 2014, 15 and 16 to fix what took place in 2013 rectify the mistakes in fundamentals? please, start many threads and list many names. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 12 hours ago, whitesoxbrad said: Can someone tell me what baseball background Rick hahn has , he is the general mgr. he is making the major decisions, I am having a tough time figuring out how he is qualified. Is this a serious thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 A+ thread. Would read again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxbrad Posted August 9, 2018 Author Share Posted August 9, 2018 18 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: Is this a serious thread? It sure is, I am the one who posted it, this organization has been horrible for years,look at the players they put on the field day in and day out it is a total embarrassment, the quality is garbage and basically all of the next group of young players that they have brought up are having problems in the field and at bat, look at there so called great minor league system, how many have been drafted by the sox, I know there are names but there drafting continues to be poor. This is a bottom line business, and to date they are irrelevant here in Chicago and nationally, I care about my favorite team but open your eyes, Rick Hahn is the general manager and I listen to him talk baseball and what i hear is not what I hear from general managers from houston. Boston, cubs, yankees, Milwaukee for example. I am not going to go up and back about this these are rich people who are running and owning this organization and it just seems like we care more than they do, Thank you for your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 8 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: The extensions only matter because of what they were able to gain in trade because Both Sale/Q were signed to such nice team friendly extensions. Where the accountability comes in is that they had two seasons to get a damn supporting cast around Sale/Quintana/Abreu/Eaton/Rodon and they failed miserably. They weren't allowed to spend the money, there was failure in player development, and the fact they couldn't convince JR to open the wallet a little more and they didn't make any shrewd moves for distressed assets is an epic waste of that talent. KW did that and that is how he kept his job for as long as he did. They had a hell of a core and they put absolutely nothing around them. That is a fireable offense. That is way too narrow. Contracts are a vital part of the management of a baseball team. Good contracts are huge assets to teams. Bad contracts can haunt a team for years and hamper their moves. Accountability doesn't only come in when you want it to. Those contracts allowed the Sox to pour vital assets to this rebuild into the system so that we weren't starting from scratch like other teams are. This entire post is built on an emotional response and not subjective at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, whitesoxbrad said: It sure is, I am the one who posted it, this organization has been horrible for years,look at the players they put on the field day in and day out it is a total embarrassment, the quality is garbage and basically all of the next group of young players that they have brought up are having problems in the field and at bat, look at there so called great minor league system, how many have been drafted by the sox, I know there are names but there drafting continues to be poor. This is a bottom line business, and to date they are irrelevant here in Chicago and nationally, I care about my favorite team but open your eyes, Rick Hahn is the general manager and I listen to him talk baseball and what i hear is not what I hear from general managers from houston. Boston, cubs, yankees, Milwaukee for example. I am not going to go up and back about this these are rich people who are running and owning this organization and it just seems like we care more than they do, Thank you for your time. You don’t hear the same stuff from the teams you mentioned because none of them are rebuilding, however you heard all of the same things from Theo when the Cubs were losing 100 games a year not even gonna touch the rich people stuff because it is totally irrelevant. The MLB is completely populated by wealthy people, front office and players alike. hahns worked his way up to his position, I’m sure he knows baseball a hell of a lot better than all of us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: That is way too narrow. Contracts are a vital part of the management of a baseball team. Good contracts are huge assets to teams. Bad contracts can haunt a team for years and hamper their moves. Accountability doesn't only come in when you want it to. Those contracts allowed the Sox to pour vital assets to this rebuild into the system so that we weren't starting from scratch like other teams are. This entire post is built on an emotional response and not subjective at all. My point is what good is having great contracts if you can't acquire the supplementary talent to take advantage of them? I completely understand that the Sox were a 70 win team and they didn't have the assets or options on the FA market. What were they supposed to do? The other problem is no team would have paid what Sale/Q were worth with 5 or 6 years on their contract. I get why they did what they did in terms of waiting to trade Sale/Q. I don't get why they wasted what little minor league assets they had on rentals when they weren't going to put them over the top anyway. They should have been spending money on a bunch of fringe FA looking for a bounce back year and flipping the ones that worked to gain some young talent. This process should have started in 2014, such that they *maybe* got enough talent in return to NOT have to trade Sale/Q in 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Being a lifelong White Sox fan I've seen different owners, players, managers and GMs. I've never seen a GM with as little success as Hahn. He has been here 6 years and has not produced one winning team. I'm hoping the 2019 season will be a better season than the past six years has been. I'm told that Hahns contract runs thru 2019. I would think if 2019 is another bad year the Rick Hahn era will be over. Maybe if Hahn is gone JR will come to his senses and interview me for the job of White Sox GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: My point is what good is having great contracts if you can't acquire the supplementary talent to take advantage of them? I completely understand that the Sox were a 70 win team and they didn't have the assets or options on the FA market. What were they supposed to do? The other problem is no team would have paid what Sale/Q were worth with 5 or 6 years on their contract. I get why they did what they did in terms of waiting to trade Sale/Q. I don't get why they wasted what little minor league assets they had on rentals when they weren't going to put them over the top anyway. They should have been spending money on a bunch of fringe FA looking for a bounce back year and flipping the ones that worked to gain some young talent. This process should have started in 2014, such that they *maybe* got enough talent in return to NOT have to trade Sale/Q in 2017. Your point is narrow. It isn't pulling in the big picture that those contracts are literally what allowed the Sox to shift gears and push the rebuild into high gear on the fly. Without those deals the Sox are probably still in some stage of "going for it" If you feel crappy about this rebuild, how would you feel about the rebuild if the Sox were missing their #1, #2, #5, #7, #10, and #11 prospects, + 2 starting pitchers and their starting 2B? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Your point is narrow. It isn't pulling in the big picture that those contracts are literally what allowed the Sox to shift gears and push the rebuild into high gear on the fly. Without those deals the Sox are probably still in some stage of "going for it" If you feel crappy about this rebuild, how would you feel about the rebuild if the Sox were missing their #1, #2, #5, #7, #10, and #11 prospects, + 2 starting pitchers and their starting 2B? Of course. We're not talking about that right now. My point is I'm not sure he should have been afforded the opportunity to go through with this rebuild. Somebody else should have been trading Sale/Q. Not that he got bad deals or anything, but I don't trust the Player Development team they have and I would feel better if they would have hired someone from the Astros to assemble their player development team. Not Chris Getz. Pick a guy from a team that has had loads of success actually cultivating minor league talent. I also don't trust this front office to properly evaluate players. I have a sinking feeling that most of the players acquired via trade or the draft are going to bust. Why do I feel this way? Because I don't believe the FO knows what they're looking at. If they did, they wouldn't have been in the situation they were in from 2014-16. Edited August 9, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: Of course. We're not talking about that right now. My point is I'm not sure he should have been afforded the opportunity to go through with this rebuild. Somebody else should have been trading Sale/Q. Not that he got bad deals or anything, but I don't trust the Player Development team they have and I would feel better if they would have hired someone from the Astros to assemble their player development team. Not Chris Getz. Pick a guy from a team that has had loads of success actually cultivating minor league talent. Chris Getz learned his trait with the Royals. Our draft head came from the Braves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: Chris Getz learned his trait with the Royals. Our draft head came from the Braves. And the Royals had an incredibly short window because it took Hosmer and Moustakas 3 seasons to figure it out at the MLB level. My point exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: And the Royals had an incredibly short window because it took Hosmer and Moustakas 3 seasons to figure it out at the MLB level. My point exactly. Wait, guys had trouble learning at the major league level during a rebuild? That can't be right. Soxtalk has told me that guys come up and are either stars or busts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Wait, guys had trouble learning at the major league level during a rebuild? That can't be right. Soxtalk has told me that guys come up and are either stars or busts. I understand that this is somewhat common, but you don't want to waste the entirety of your top prospects pre-arb years on becoming a useful MLB player. It significantly hampers a) the window and b) the team's ability to add if necessary, unless you're the Yankees/Dodgers/Cubs. You want them to figure it out by the end of year 2 of pre-arb. Edited August 9, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: I understand that this is normal, but you don't want to waste the entirety of your top prospects pre-arb years on becoming a useful MLB player. It significantly hampers a) the window and b) the team's ability to add if necessary, unless you're the Yankees/Dodgers/Cubs. Only one of those three teams has been through an actual rebuild. it is much easier to break a young player in when you have superstar players around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: Only one of those three teams has been through an actual rebuild. it is much easier to break a young player in when you have superstar players around them. At what point is Rick Hahn accountable? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Only one of those three teams has been through an actual rebuild. it is much easier to break a young player in when you have superstar players around them. So what's the deal with the Braves and Phillies right now? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Only one of those three teams has been through an actual rebuild. it is much easier to break a young player in when you have superstar players around them. I think the Yankees did in fact do a rebuild. They had a lot of bad contracts and aging stars and built up their farm while waiting for the bad contracts to get off the books. They never added at the deadline, they always sold while doing this. They showed everyone how to rebuild while not completely bottoming out, but then again the International rules were different at that time and they're the Yankees so they can always throw money at stuff like that. And when I was talking about getting JR to open the wallet, I meant more for guys like Moncada and Japanese players, and maybe going into the penalty a couple times when it was an option in the international market. When they could have signed a TON of top international talent every two seasons and there were zero penalties for going over a certain dollar amount, other than not being able to sign guys for over 300k. Edited August 9, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 I'll say I"ve seen progress in certain things that are still not tangible to production, but I have basically zero confidence in their pro scouting for free agency, and am pretty worried they will royally screw up again committing 8 million here, 10 mill there to garbage players that once again prevent us from truly tipping the scales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, bmags said: I'll say I"ve seen progress in certain things that are still not tangible to production, but I have basically zero confidence in their pro scouting for free agency, and am pretty worried they will royally screw up again committing 8 million here, 10 mill there to garbage players that once again prevent us from truly tipping the scales. I have zero confidence in any sort of scouting they do. Hostetler has been a little better on the Amateur side, but their pro scouting so far(in terms of impact at the MLB level) has been horrendous. Moncada and Giolito look awful, and Lopez looks like a back of the rotation guy. At the current time, I'm concerned they'll be in the same situation in 2021 they were in 2016, without the great contracts to bail them out. A 75-79 win team with a roster of 4 stars and a bunch of crap. I think Madrigal has to be a hell of a hitter(like an Ichiro/Carew/Tony Gwynn Sr. type) or else that pick will look bad. I have this horrible feeling that he's going to end up more like Juan Pierre. Edited August 9, 2018 by Jack Parkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footlongcomiskeydog Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 25 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: So what's the deal with the Braves and Phillies right now? Ozzie Albies has a WAR of 5.2 in 164 games played and is 20 years old. Ronald Acuna has a WAR of 1.2 in 60 games and is 20 years old. Johan Camargo has a WAR of 3.0 in 171 games played and is 24. Sean Newcomb has a WAR of 3.0 with 42 career starts. That is pretty damn impressive. The only guy still scuffling for them is Dansby Swanson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 32 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: At what point is Rick Hahn accountable? When this shit does or doesn't work. Nobody can tell right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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