Rick Hahn

[Jake]

I think it is worth saying that executive/management experience has long been a very undervalued skillset in baseball front offices and it's a skillset that is probably rarely present alongside baseball scouting talent, given that those are both specialized skills that don't build on each other.

Also I would advise being cautious with comparisons to Atlanta since we know they were brazenly cheating for years.

[ptatc]

51 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

Being a lifelong White Sox fan I've seen different owners, players, managers and GMs. I've never seen a GM with as little success as Hahn. He has been here 6 years and has not produced one winning team. I'm hoping the 2019 season will be a better season than the past six years has been. I'm told that Hahns contract runs thru 2019. I would think if 2019 is another bad year the Rick Hahn era will be over. Maybe if Hahn is gone JR will come to his senses and interview me for the job of White Sox GM.

I don't think Hahn's job is in trouble until 2021, I think they will give him the chance to see the rebuild through. Once they committed to the rebuild, they should give him the chance to see his players reach the MLB and see how they do.

[ptatc]

35 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

At what point is Rick Hahn accountable?

I would say once the players acquired during the rebuild reach the MLB. The appropriate timeline for the trades and drafts to reach the MLB and perform is about 4 years. That's 2020 or 2021. if the team isn't competing by then, launch them all.

[Dick Allen]

9 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

When this shit does or doesn't work. Nobody can tell right now.

I get that, but at what point will that be determined? I know it's too soon now. I just find it incredible anyone actually thinks he earned the chance to buy himself some years doing this.  it's all based on any previous move that was bad was KW and that was good was RH. 

Less than 5 months after he trades Tatis for Shields, he gets to lead a full rebuild. I wonder if there are any brokerage firms looking to hire Jon Corzine to run their company.

The guy is bright, and he knows how to talk a good game, but at some point results should matter. We will see about the talent. Then we will see if his development team has a clue. It would be nice even if the have to play bad players, they at least have a clue as to what base to throw to, when to take an extra base, when to hit the other way....It's the same clueless baseball that has been going on for years. It's kind of hard to blame the major league staff. You would think guys actually would know how to play once they arrive whether from the minors or from other teams. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I get that, but at what point will that be determined? I know it's too soon now. I just find it incredible anyone actually thinks he earned the chance to buy himself some years doing this.  it's all based on any previous move that was bad was KW and that was good was RH. 

Less than 5 months after he trades Tatis for Shields, he gets to lead a full rebuild. I wonder if there are any brokerage firms looking to hire Jon Corzine to run their company.

 

yes he runs a hedge fund. 

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

yes he runs a hedge fund. 

Jon Corzine hired Jon Corzine. It was a throwaway line. I am pretty sure Corzine was so bad, he is banned from running an FCM. 

 

Rick Hahn is dangerous because the guy no doubt can nail an interview. It might be pretty easy to overlook how bad his teams have been. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Dick Allen

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

please, start many threads and list many names.

The endless jabbing at caulfield is mean and vindictive. And of course you got style points for it. He responded to a quote from dickallen. He'a a quality poster . So what if you don't like his writing style. Get over it . Quit being a baby.

[Eminor3rd]

11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I get that, but at what point will that be determined? I know it's too soon now. I just find it incredible anyone actually thinks he earned the chance to buy himself some years doing this.  it's all based on any previous move that was bad was KW and that was good was RH. 

Less than 5 months after he trades Tatis for Shields, he gets to lead a full rebuild. I wonder if there are any brokerage firms looking to hire Jon Corzine to run their company.

The guy is bright, and he knows how to talk a good game, but at some point results should matter. We will see about the talent. Then we will see if his development team has a clue. It would be nice even if the have to play bad players, they at least have a clue as to what base to throw to, when to take an extra base, when to hit the other way....It's the same clueless baseball that has been going on for years. It's kind of hard to blame the major league staff. You would think guys actually would know how to play once they arrive whether from the minors or from other teams. 

Right but this whole thread (and 80% of all others) are written by people who DON'T know it's too soon. 

[GreenSox]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

  Our draft head came from the Braves.

Our draft head was with the Sox for 3 years, Braves for 3 years,  and with the Sox for last 11 years.
That he came from the Braves is quite the spin.
And he was with Laumann all of those years until Laumann's retirement.

[steveno89]

17 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I would say once the players acquired during the rebuild reach the MLB. The appropriate timeline for the trades and drafts to reach the MLB and perform is about 4 years. That's 2020 or 2021. if the team isn't competing by then, launch them all.

If the Sox are not competitive by the end of the 2021 season, then the rebuild has been a complete failure. 2019 is likely another fairly tough rebuilding year, but we should be getting signs of life. 2020 should be back to .500 ideally, or trending upwards at a minimum. 2021 we should ideally be ready to rock. 

 

[Kyyle23]

14 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The endless jabbing at caulfield is mean and vindictive. And of course you got style points for it. He responded to a quote from dickallen. He'a a quality poster . So what if you don't like his writing style. Get over it . Quit being a baby.

I dont really care what you think, but please continue

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

53 minutes ago, bmags said:

I'll say I"ve seen progress in certain things that are still not tangible to production, but I have basically zero confidence in their pro scouting for free agency, and am pretty worried they will royally screw up again committing 8 million here, 10 mill there to garbage players that once again prevent us from truly tipping the scales.

Yea you heard Hahn say what his plans were this off season. More Wellington Castillo type moves and maybe explore some prospect for prospect deals with the chances of landing a big fish unlikely. So maybe a 75 win team next year ,maybe .500 if Eloy and Kopech manage not to suck.

[Bananarchy]

30 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

When this shit does or doesn't work. Nobody can tell right now.

Agreed.  When ownership said "Okay, we'll blow it up", they pretty much said "we buy this will be a multi-year rebuild".  At this point, Rick has done exactly what he said he would do and the farm system progress with players moving up through the system indicates that, with some hiccups, this plan is working.

This is what ownership bought.  They expected this.  We're at least two seasons from anyone considering putting Hahn on the hot seat.

[bmags]

While I like Luis Robert, I think if this rebuild fails one of the big misses will be not committing to a huge latam class before the rules switched. In money terms, we spent a large amount that class, but it was not a 30 person class with 8 guys in the top 30.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

32 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

If the Sox are not competitive by the end of the 2021 season, then the rebuild has been a complete failure. 2019 is likely another fairly tough rebuilding year, but we should be getting signs of life. 2020 should be back to .500 ideally, or trending upwards at a minimum. 2021 we should ideally be ready to rock. 

 

The Sox should be playing much better than 500 ball in 2020. That will be year 4 of the rebuild. The Cubs were able to go to deep into the playoffs during year 4 of their rebuild. The Sox should be competing for a division crown in 2020. 

[Dick Allen]

Well, if you are giving Hahn all this credit for Sale, Eaton and Q, you have to hold his rebuild accountable a little quicker than normal since he got the Moncada, Kopech, Basabe, Dunning, Giolito, Lopez, Eloy, and Cease headstart. i am not saying you have to determine it now, but certainly by 2020 things better be turning around in a pretty big way.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

I see late 2019 to 2020 to be the time of the turn around, but probably not divisional winning.  By then you will have Giolito, Lopez, Moncada, Kopech and Jimenez on your 25 roster almost for sure (barring crazy regression or injury),  By late 2019 You should also be to the stage where Dylan Cease and Dane Dunning are getting to Chicago (or really close to it), as well as guys like Burdi, Hamilton, and Burr in the back of the pen.  So at that point your pitching staff should largely be getting into place with the new faces.  Less certain, but very possible is seeing someone like Seby Zavala, Alec Hansen, Tyler Johnson, and or a Jordan Stephens.

The position players are going to start hitting in more waves into the 2020 to 2021 range.  Currently sitting at Birmingham you have the guys like Basabe and Collins, who could see Chicago at the end of 2019, but more realistically 2020.  The guys currently at High A are much heavier in terms of talent, and are probably in the late 2020 to 2021 crowd.  That is where you get into Robert, Rutherford, Luis Gonzalez, Micker, and Madrigal currently.  I get the feeling that Robert, Gonzalez, and Madrigal could do a quicker move, with the more raw guys taking a bit longer.  The Kannapolis team has a crowd of guys behind them that will factor more into the 2021 to 22 crowd.

That is a long way of saying that if you actually sketch it out on paper, it is still going to be a while if you have reasonable expectations for players.

[thxfrthmmrs]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

I would say once the players acquired during the rebuild reach the MLB. The appropriate timeline for the trades and drafts to reach the MLB and perform is about 4 years. That's 2020 or 2021. if the team isn't competing by then, launch them all.

This.

Seriously, the only 3 or 4 players who envisioned to be part of our core who had more than 1 full year of MLB experience so far. Anderson looks like a league average starter, Lopez looks like a solid mid rotation starter. Moncada and Giolito has flashed talent but sure seems like they will need more reps to correct their flaws.  the other 75% of the core is still in the minors and things are only trending up. I don't know the point to panicking and throwing Hahn under the bus right now. Unless someone comes back with some stupid shit and blames Hahn for Hansen, Burger, Dunning and Robert being injured.

[TaylorStSox]

I'd hate to be in a fox hole with some of you guys. 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, TaylorStSox said:

I'd hate to be in a fox hole with some of you guys. 

"Why hasn't anyone fired that general yet?"

"When are they going to call up B Company?"

"If only they had gotten rid of C Platoon when they got the chance?"

"Why have a nuclear bomb if they aren't going to use it on the battlefield?"

"Excuse me Drill Sergent, what are your qualifications, exactly?"

[TaylorStSox]

I wonder if humanity as a whole will ever adjust to the Twitter Era of everyone trying to out shock one another in 160 characters, instant gratification and just constantly complaining about everything all the time. 

[Bananarchy]

19 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I wonder if humanity as a whole will ever adjust to the Twitter Era of everyone trying to out shock one another in 160 characters, instant gratification and just constantly complaining about everything all the time. 

There are a number of posters here who went from 

1. Rebuilds don't work (Cubs win World Series)
2. Our organization can't rebuild (White Sox start rebuild)
3. Okay fine we'll rebuild
4. Why isn't the rebuild over yet? 
5. What are Rick Hahn's qualifications?

I don't know about all the Twitter era stuff, but when this team kept "reloading" and going for it with high paid bums only to be out in July, I was more angry than anyone here.  My tune changed when the White Sox did the right thing and moved to build a younger squad. 

[TaylorStSox]

14 minutes ago, AustinIllini said:

There are a number of posters here who went from 

1. Rebuilds don't work (Cubs win World Series)
2. Our organization can't rebuild (White Sox start rebuild)
3. Okay fine we'll rebuild
4. Why isn't the rebuild over yet? 
5. What are Rick Hahn's qualifications?

I don't know about all the Twitter era stuff, but when this team kept "reloading" and going for it with high paid bums only to be out in July, I was more angry than anyone here.  My tune changed when the White Sox did the right thing and moved to build a younger squad. 

It's all about a mindset. I like rebuilds because I like to watch players grow. I just adjust my expectations and don't care about wins/losses anymore. Over the years I've also learned to not get emotionally invested in wins/losses. I never really get angry about losses anymore. I have enough patience to wait it out. 99 and 00 were probably my favorite years as a Sox fan... obviously aside from 05. 

[SCCWS]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Only one of those three teams has been through an actual rebuild.  it is much easier to break a young player in when you have superstar players around them.

Actually I would say the Yankees did a rebuild after 2013. Other than Gardner and CC, they literally gutted the roster, saw guys like Pettitte, Rivera and Jeter retire and fired the manager.  Boston has also done the equivalent of a rebuild after the 2014 season.  But both organizations had good minor league talent, traded major league talent and had money to spend on FA talent.  On the flip side, both those organizations drafted that good minor league talent in years where they were not drafting with high picks.  So I will assume their scouting/minor league instructors did good jobs. 

[Dick Allen]

 

There is a pretty good case to be made Rick Hahn has committed fire able offenses. 

There is a pretty good case that could be made that KW and RH shouldn't be the architects of this rebuild.

But I don't see where current performance should get them fired. That's fair. But I don't think they deserve a real long rope. Next year isn't looking too promising. Obviously, it doesn't mean it will be awful. 1977 was supposed to suck, 1990 was supposed to suck. 2000 was supposed to suck. I think even 2005 was supposed to suck. But as far as rebuilds go, 1990 and 2000 are the years we should be encouraged something many of us, me among them,  don't see happening, may happen.  But if it doesn't, fine. It's a rebuild. But there has to be some things to hang the hat on. Legit things. Not BS like they did on the pregame show yesterday trying to spin Giolito's year as average. It's been terrible. His ERA is over 6.00. And 2020, they should be a better than average team. If either of those don't happen, I think it's very fair to clean house.