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OT: Sale


wrathofhahn

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14 hours ago, Scoots said:

Yeah one game that sticks out in my head is blowing one against the Angels late. I think he gave up a grand slam to Trout in like the 8th.

Which is interesting, because when he ever blew a lead, it was always the manager's fault. Now that he is on another team, he is a talented, hot headed, mental midget., good riddance. 

 

The guy is awesome. Get over it White Sox fans.

Edited by Dick Allen
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16 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

That fact that he had every right to a major fit or frustration and never did is why I feel so bad for him now that he's no longer having that kind of success while pitching.

I call that being a good person and teammate.

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3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I call that being a good person and teammate.

Personality wise, Q and Sale seem to be on the opposite ends of the spectrum. One thing they have in common is they seemed very respected and admired by their teammates. As questionable some of the things Sale said and did may have been, you didn't hear anything bad about him when he was here or after he left. 

 

To be their best, some guys have to be Bjorn Borg, some guys have to be John McEnroe. 

Edited by Dick Allen
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33 minutes ago, Juschill said:

I remember being so mad at Robin during that game. Sale was clearly fading the inning prior and should've been pulled, but Robin let him out to pitch the 8th and obviously everything fell apart. 

 

If he never let Sale out for that inning, Sale's 2014 season ERA would have been 1.97 instead of 2.17. 

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18 hours ago, Scoots said:

Yeah one game that sticks out in my head is blowing one against the Angels late. I think he gave up a grand slam to Trout in like the 8th.

He gave up a homer to Trout?  What a bum!!!

The thing you are missing is that he was pitching in the 8th inning.  You only do that those days if you are an ace.  Q has pitched 21.1 innings in the 8th inning.  His ERA in those innings is 5.48.  

In 3 fewer career starts, Sale has pitched 117.1 more innings.    He has recorded 352 more outs in 3 fewer starts.  Those outs matter.  Those are outs that aren't being heaped upon mediocre relievers.  They are saving the arms of your more important relievers.  In my opinion, that is a huge part of being a number 1.  Going deep into games and IP are factors that are completely undervalued.

I would say IP is the second most important pitching statistic behind ERA.

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22 hours ago, turnin' two said:

He gave up a homer to Trout?  What a bum!!!

The thing you are missing is that he was pitching in the 8th inning.  You only do that those days if you are an ace.  Q has pitched 21.1 innings in the 8th inning.  His ERA in those innings is 5.48.  

In 3 fewer career starts, Sale has pitched 117.1 more innings.    He has recorded 352 more outs in 3 fewer starts.  Those outs matter.  Those are outs that aren't being heaped upon mediocre relievers.  They are saving the arms of your more important relievers.  In my opinion, that is a huge part of being a number 1.  Going deep into games and IP are factors that are completely undervalued.

I would say IP is the second most important pitching statistic behind ERA.

Agree but it can also be a negative indicator.  Teams are now aware that too many IP can hurt some starters ( Maybe Sale) in the Post-Season. 

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On 8/15/2018 at 9:46 AM, Dick Allen said:

Personality wise, Q and Sale seem to be on the opposite ends of the spectrum. One thing they have in common is they seemed very respected and admired by their teammates. As questionable some of the things Sale said and did may have been, you didn't hear anything bad about him when he was here or after he left. 

 

To be their best, some guys have to be Bjorn Borg, some guys have to be John McEnroe. 

The response was about sale or Quintana. It was to a post that said the poster felt sorry for Quintana because he had every right to throw a fit because of frustration with his defense and offense not helping him out (paraphrasing). 

The fact that he didn't shows he's a high quality person and teammate.

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Something is wrong in the shoulder if he keeps ramping up and then missing starts due to inflammation.   Seems a bit similar to what Rodon went through last year.

 

edit: wow, did not know he was limited to 68 pitches in the one start he made after his initial DL stint.  Yea something is wrong and it's more than just the usual soreness it appears.  

Edited by chitownsportsfan
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37 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Something is wrong in the shoulder if he keeps ramping up and then missing starts due to inflammation.   Seems a bit similar to what Rodon went through last year.

 

edit: wow, did not know he was limited to 68 pitches in the one start he made after his initial DL stint.  Yea something is wrong and it's more than just the usual soreness it appears.  

He was on a pitch count that start with a limit of 80. He got through 5 IP and 68 pitches and they pulled him. I don't think they pulled him for feeling bad.

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52 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

He was on a pitch count that start with a limit of 80. He got through 5 IP and 68 pitches and they pulled him. I don't think they pulled him for feeling bad.

In hindsight, it appears they probably did.  

EDIT: JFC I cannot edit this text how I want it.  FFS.  The last paragraph is obviously mine.

From Sale via SoSH:

Quote

"Just a little bit more of the same [feeling in the shoulder from] the last episode we had," said Sale. "Just trying to stay on top of things and get it better."

"When I started throwing again, [my shoulder] just kind of didn't respond the way we wanted it to," said Sale. "[It] didn't really bounce back the way we wanted it to. [We'll] just kind of adjust and kind of map things out and see where it takes us."

"We've still got a lot of season left. We don't want to overlook that. At the same time, we want to be able to kind of sprint across the finish line -- not limp into it. Like I said, [it's] bad timing, obviously. Anybody who knows me knows I'm not the biggest fan of what's going on right now, but it is what it is. You deal with it, keep your chin up, put one foot in front of the other and just keep grinding."

A return to pain with activity is usually an indication of a fairly serious underlying injury in the joint.  Rest will help but it's possible that there is something that will require a surgical repair this offseason.

Edited by chitownsportsfan
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22 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is exactly why the White Sox treated him with kid gloves.

I feel like Robin Ventura is going to come to your home, knock on your door, and spit in your face. I'm not even sure which one to cite here, the 9 game stretch in 2013 where he averaged 117 pitches thrown per start with a 124 pitch outing,  the 125 pitch outing in 2015 in the middle of the stretch in 2015 from May 1 to the All Star Break where he averaged 114 pitches thrown per start and then the White Sox publicly stated that they didn't want him pitching in the all star game right afterwards almost as if someone had overworked him, or the 3 months in 2014 where he came off the disabled list and then after 2 starts where he had pitch count limits he was never once under 100 pitches from June 1 to August 31 (averaging 110 pitches a start).

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22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I feel like Robin Ventura is going to come to your home, knock on your door, and spit in your face. I'm not even sure which one to cite here, the 9 game stretch in 2013 where he averaged 117 pitches thrown per start with a 124 pitch outing,  the 125 pitch outing in 2015 in the middle of the stretch in 2015 from May 1 to the All Star Break where he averaged 114 pitches thrown per start and then the White Sox publicly stated that they didn't want him pitching in the all star game right afterwards almost as if someone had overworked him, or the 3 months in 2014 where he came off the disabled list and then after 2 starts where he had pitch count limits he was never once under 100 pitches from June 1 to August 31 (averaging 110 pitches a start).

But of course you will ignore all of the skipped starts and extra days off, as well as trying to get him to pitch to contact more to keep his pitch count down.

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47 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

But of course you will ignore all of the skipped starts and extra days off, as well as trying to get him to pitch to contact more to keep his pitch count down.

Out of the stretches I cited the only skipped starts were "The All Star Break". They did that stretch of 2 months where he averaged 110+ pitches thrown while he was on a roll...every year until 2016, even when he started the year on the DL. Totally amazing how he tired down the stretch year after year.

They might have learned a lesson in 2016.

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