The " Tank" is dead . Let there be Light !

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

I don't know how much evidence exists that a strong finish to the season necessarily carries over to the next. Obviously seeing younger players do well is encouraging though. 

As for signing a premium free agent whale like Machado or Harper, I think we all need to temper expectations. 2019 is likely to be another rebuilding year as we begin to push prospects up the system and transition the first wave to the mlb level. I would expect veteran bridge type deals, with the potential to be opportunistic in free agency if the time comes. After 2019, ideally we are ready to be very aggressive in free agency to contend in 2020 onward. 

My expectations for 2019 are 75+ wins with minimal free agents signings this winter and 80+ wins with a couple impact free agent signings this winter. In this division, I think those are very reasonable expectations considering this team could be pushing close to 70 wins this season after a terrible start and a whole lotta dead weight on the 25-man roster in the first half.

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

My expectations for 2019 are 75+ wins with minimal free agents signings this winter and 80+ wins with a couple impact free agent signings this winter. In this division, I think those are very reasonable expectations considering this team could be pushing close to 70 wins this season after a terrible start and a whole lotta dead weight on the 25-man roster in the first half.

Hahn made it sound like there would be some additions in free agency.  I personally believe they go after the whale free agents (Machado/Harper) and look to plug some holes with bridge guys on 1 to 2 year deals.  We'll have enough of our potential core in place by opening day next year (or mid April) to start fielding a team that has a chance to compete if enough young guys take enough strides in their development.  After this year, I think the "tank" is most definitely over.

[beautox]

8 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

My expectations for 2019 are 75+ wins with minimal free agents signings this winter and 80+ wins with a couple impact free agent signings this winter. In this division, I think those are very reasonable expectations considering this team could be pushing close to 70 wins this season after a terrible start and a whole lotta dead weight on the 25-man roster in the first half.

My expectation for this off season is that they at the very least sign Grandal, going from #92/105 in Castillo & Narvaez to #3  in pitch framing would be a huge impact on our young staff.

 

Outside of that, yes I want them to go hard after Machado but if he doesn't want to come here so be it. Spend as little of money as possible getting someone like Pomeranz or even reupping with Shields to hold the 5th spot in the rotation till Cease or Dunning is ready early-mid season.

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, beautox said:

My expectation for this off season is that they at the very least sign Grandal, going from #92/105 in Castillo & Narvaez to #3  in pitch framing would be a huge impact on our young staff.

 

Outside of that, yes I want them to go hard after Machado but if he doesn't want to come here so be it. Spend as little of money as possible getting someone like Pomeranz or even reupping with Shields to hold the 5th spot in the rotation till Cease or Dunning is ready early-mid season.

With Castilllo still around, Smith and Narvaez showing major league worth, and then Zavala knocking on the door, I can't see the Sox signing another catcher for a major league deal.

[bmags]

41 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Hahn made it sound like there would be some additions in free agency.  I personally believe they go after the whale free agents (Machado/Harper) and look to plug some holes with bridge guys on 1 to 2 year deals.  We'll have enough of our potential core in place by opening day next year (or mid April) to start fielding a team that has a chance to compete if enough young guys take enough strides in their development.  After this year, I think the "tank" is most definitely over.

What makes me nervous is Hahn's "plug some holes" 1-2 year guys have been absolute failures during his entire tenure. Outside of bullpen, hard to think of any that have been productive.

If he's going back to that well he better hit and hit fast if we're to expect him to be the right GM for the job in getting them to a championship.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, bmags said:

What makes me nervous is Hahn's "plug some holes" 1-2 year guys have been absolute failures during his entire tenure. Outside of bullpen, hard to think of any that have been productive.

If he's going back to that well he better hit and hit fast if we're to expect him to be the right GM for the job in getting them to a championship.

Fair points, but three things worth mentioning.  First, I believe we’ve undergone some major changes in our pro scouting department.  Second, we have both a ton of financial flexibility & minor league reinforcements on the way.  When we had our little free agency bonanza a few years back, we basically had no fall back if those guys failed.  Third, over year old 30 veterans are much cheaper than they used to be.  Overall, I think there is far less risk trying to execute such a plan now than in years past.

[bmags]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Fair points, but three things worth mentioning.  First, I believe we’ve undergone some major changes in our pro scouting department.  Second, we have both a ton of financial flexibility & minor league reinforcements on the way.  When we had our little free agency bonanza a few years back, we basically had no fall back if those guys failed.  Third, over year old 30 veterans are much cheaper than they used to be.  Overall, I think there is far less risk trying to execute such a plan now than in years past.

This is true but unfortunately hasn't proven to be unwarranted either. It has even felt like the over 30 pitchers have been better than the bats.

[bmags]

32 minutes ago, bmags said:

This is true but unfortunately hasn't proven to be unwarranted either. It has even felt like the over 30 pitchers have been better than the bats.

For instance, I just looked up this article that went around in the offseason talking about how good of a team you could put together with remaining free agents in february. That team was projected for 37 wins, by my count its only projected to hit 21. It's crazy the sox basically built a world series team out of over 30 talent, now it just seems destined to fail.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/could-a-team-of-remaining-free-agents-compete-in-2018/

Sorry it was here.

Edited August 28, 2018 by bmags

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Hahn made it sound like there would be some additions in free agency.  I personally believe they go after the whale free agents (Machado/Harper) and look to plug some holes with bridge guys on 1 to 2 year deals.  We'll have enough of our potential core in place by opening day next year (or mid April) to start fielding a team that has a chance to compete if enough young guys take enough strides in their development.  After this year, I think the "tank" is most definitely over.

The whole free agent situation will be very interesting. I'm all for going after the big fishes .

The most interesting position players that may fit the Sox needs in my opinion are Eduardo Escobar, Michael Brantley, Marwin Gonzales, Mike Moustakas, AJ Pollock ,Adam Jones, Andrew McCutchen and Josh Donaldson.

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[ptatc]

5 hours ago, oldsox said:

This issue of service time was brought to a head with the Kris Bryant episode.  They chose to keep him down a couple extra weeks, got a shitload of criticism, then brought him up and a year later gave him his extension.  Just bring Eloy up, play him, get us all excited, then extend him in a couple of years if he hits.  Before Bryant, it wasn't a big national issue, IIRC.

He didn't really sign an extension. The Cubs just bought out his arbitration years. He will still reach free agency at the same time as before. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

33 minutes ago, bmags said:

For instance, I just looked up this article that went around in the offseason talking about how good of a team you could put together with remaining free agents in february. That team was projected for 37 wins, by my count its only projected to hit 21. It's crazy the sox basically built a world series team out of over 30 talent, now it just seems destined to fail.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/could-a-team-of-remaining-free-agents-compete-in-2018/

Sorry it was here.

Just so its not confusing that team was projected to have a 37 WAR. When I 1st read it I thought you meant 37 wins in a 162 game schedule until I read the article.

[bmags]

32 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Just so its not confusing that team was projected to have a 37 WAR. When I 1st read it I thought you meant 37 wins in a 162 game schedule until I read the article.

Right, and 37 wins above replacement is a borderline playoff team.

[Jack Parkman]

If you could get him for cheap on a  1 year deal, who would you rather give RF to next season Avi or McCutchen? I think they will sign some mid-tier guys next season and be ready to rock and roll if they can't land either Machado or Harper. I still think Machado will be a Yankee and Harper stays in Washington. 

[chitownsportsfan]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

If you could get him for cheap on a  1 year deal, who would you rather give RF to next season Avi or McCutchen? I think they will sign some mid-tier guys next season and be ready to rock and roll if they can't land either Machado or Harper. I still think Machado will be a Yankee and Harper stays in Washington. 

Neither.  I'd cut bait on Avi and give all the reps to Eloy next year.   Delmonico starts in LF, Palka and Davidson are your DH platoon.  Leury is your 4th OF and supersub.   Jose is traded.

My position on Avi and Jose is pretty much "time to move on".  There are younger, better players coming through the system, and they are much cheaper as well.

[Jack Parkman]

17 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Neither.  I'd cut bait on Avi and give all the reps to Eloy next year.   Delmonico starts in LF, Palka and Davidson are your DH platoon.  Leury is your 4th OF and supersub.   Jose is traded.

My position on Avi and Jose is pretty much "time to move on".  There are younger, better players coming through the system, and they are much cheaper as well.

Getz has said that Eloy is playing LF in Chicago. I'd imagine Abreu is back for one final season, and Avi is a non-tender candidate, IMO. I wonder who else is out there in the mid-tier for RF? I'll go check. 

EDIT: here's the FA list for this offseason. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/2018-19-mlb-free-agents.html

Edited August 28, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[Chicago White Sox]

55 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

If you could get him for cheap on a  1 year deal, who would you rather give RF to next season Avi or McCutchen? I think they will sign some mid-tier guys next season and be ready to rock and roll if they can't land either Machado or Harper. I still think Machado will be a Yankee and Harper stays in Washington. 

I’d take McCutchen over Avi if I could do it on a one year deal.

[Chicago White Sox]

49 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Neither.  I'd cut bait on Avi and give all the reps to Eloy next year.   Delmonico starts in LF, Palka and Davidson are your DH platoon.  Leury is your 4th OF and supersub.   Jose is traded.

My position on Avi and Jose is pretty much "time to move on".  There are younger, better players coming through the system, and they are much cheaper as well.

So you want to tank again?

[chitownsportsfan]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So you want to tank again?

I scared of Hahn in the bargain bin FA market.  He's proven that he's weak there.  Rather would see them keep their powder dry for 2020 and beyond.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 8/28/2018 at 4:47 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

I’d take McCutchen over Avi if I could do it on a one year deal.

McCutchen, Brantley, Adam Jones. Pollock all viable options. Remember how well Dye did with the Sox coming off an injury in 2004 and kind of being labeled as injury prone at that point ? Dye played with the Sox for 5 years age 31 through age 35 seasons . 2 of those years he got MVP votes 2006 and 2008 ) One year he was World Series MVP (2005). He always had a minimum of 500 AB's and averaged  an .867 OPS for those 5 years. I wouldn't shy away from Pollock or Brantley because of past injuries. Jones is the oldest of them but solid player ,solid clubhouse guy and solid citizen. In terms of my most desired and probably most expensive  ;

1.Brantley

2. Pollock

3. McCutchen

4. Jones.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 8/28/2018 at 4:53 PM, chitownsportsfan said:

I scared of Hahn in the bargain bin FA market.  He's proven that he's weak there.  Rather would see them keep their powder dry for 2020 and beyond.

He could do better by just staying away from the NL and going with guys who are familiar with AL Central pitching. Just about all of his flops were NL players or guys without a track record (Keppinger) or just plain too old with major signs of decline (LaRoche). Stick  to good 2 way players. Of course now we're not talking bargain bin.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Bump  Sorry Palka , Reylo , Hamilton and Davidson made me do it.

[ChiSox59]

On 8/28/2018 at 5:58 PM, chitownsportsfan said:

Neither.  I'd cut bait on Avi and give all the reps to Eloy next year.   Delmonico starts in LF, Palka and Davidson are your DH platoon.  Leury is your 4th OF and supersub.   Jose is traded.

My position on Avi and Jose is pretty much "time to move on".  There are younger, better players coming through the system, and they are much cheaper as well.

Who plays 1B in this scenario? 

[Bob Sacamano]

Do people actually think Avi will get non-tendered? I don't see it personally (though I wouldn't be opposed to it).

[chitownsportsfan]

30 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Who plays 1B in this scenario? 

Good question, have to see how spring shakes out but I'd be fine taking a flyer on a lefty hitting 1B if anybody is out there to kick the tires on.  My preference would be to see Palka and Davidson in a pretty strict platoon at DH.  Davidson can play 3B in a pinch hopefully Palka could play some 1B.  That said, I think you'd run into some roster construction issues having that many DH/1B types.  

We'll see, maybe they just try and dump one of those guys for a lotto ticket prospect.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

Do people actually think Avi will get non-tendered? I don't see it personally (though I wouldn't be opposed to it).

I do.  I get the $10 million-ish expected salary isn't that big of a deal right now, but two things stand out.

#1, we actually have OFs and will need yet another spot for Eloy Jimenez

#2, Even if we look at Avi as a potential tradeable asset, we shouldn't.  Even after his breakout 2017 year, nobody came after the guy on the trade market.  People either didn't believe he was really that good, or his lack of defense hurt him enough to where he had not much trade value.

If #2 is at least mostly true, what does bringing back Avi do for us?  At worst we know it crowds up the OF as we are looking to for sure add Eloy to the mix.  Once you give CF to a real CF, and LF (probably) to Eloy, that means we have zero spots left for Palka, Delmonico, and probably Leury.

I honestly don't see how Avi fits in for 2019 without making things worse.