The Rebuilding Progress

[Soxsi75]

Here's how I see the rebuilding progress at this point. The White Sox having a winning record in August I feel came as a result of a young pitching staff beginning to look like a possible formidable rotation within a couple of years. Rodon, Kopech, Lopez and Giolito's improvement after a nightmarish start and rough year. Throw Cease into this mix in the future and the pitching is beginning to take form. The every day lineup still has a long way to go. Of their 8 regulars, maybe 4 of them should be regulars when we expect to be contending again, and maybe as few as 2. Abreu, (If he's still here, but he appears to be a leader with the young players so I think he will be,) and Moncada. ( A tough rookie year caused mostly by not making enough contact, but I'd say be patient with this guy. He can hit for power, run, and will take a walk.) The other 2 on the bubble are Anderson and Avisail Garcia. Now Anderson is beginning to look more like a guy who should stick, mostly from his improvement defensively. He was a butcher in the field last year and had 10 errors by the end of May this year. But he made only 1 error the entire month of August and 2 since July 10th.  He's also making plays now he wasn't making before. Before, you had to think "who would want a .240 hitting shortstop who commits a ton of errors." But now with his improved defense, to go along what he can provide, some speed and power, and he's beginning to look like someone they can win with if playing everyday. But the jury's still out on Garcia. Yeah, he may be playing hurt, but he still swings at WAY too many pitchers pitches, so he gets himself out a lot. Having a bad knee shouldn't make him do this. I think last year was a career year. Maybe he's not a .230 hitter, but he isn't a .330 one either. We'd be foolish to expect him to ever duplicate that. Everyone else is either a bit player or shouldn't be here at all. Palka's dangerous and could help as a hitter coming off the bench. A Warren Newson or Jerry Hairston, for those of you who remember them. Sanchez is a good utility/back up infielder and Engel can be a defensive replacement on a contending team. Everyone else......I just hope that when it's getting closer to the White Sox contending they do go out and fill what holes they have by spending some money. It's not going to be able to just be go young and leaving it at that. I know the tear down to build up method is in vogue because the Cubs and Astros, the last two WS champs did this, but what has to be remembered is this. The Cubs didn't win the WS because of Addison Russell. They did because they picked up Lester and traded for Chapman. And the Astros didn't win because of George Springer. They did because they traded for Verlander. I hope the White Sox remember that. 

[whitesoxbrad]

3 hours ago, Soxsi75 said:

Here's how I see the rebuilding progress at this point. The White Sox having a winning record in August I feel came as a result of a young pitching staff beginning to look like a possible formidable rotation within a couple of years. Rodon, Kopech, Lopez and Giolito's improvement after a nightmarish start and rough year. Throw Cease into this mix in the future and the pitching is beginning to take form. The every day lineup still has a long way to go. Of their 8 regulars, maybe 4 of them should be regulars when we expect to be contending again, and maybe as few as 2. Abreu, (If he's still here, but he appears to be a leader with the young players so I think he will be,) and Moncada. ( A tough rookie year caused mostly by not making enough contact, but I'd say be patient with this guy. He can hit for power, run, and will take a walk.) The other 2 on the bubble are Anderson and Avisail Garcia. Now Anderson is beginning to look more like a guy who should stick, mostly from his improvement defensively. He was a butcher in the field last year and had 10 errors by the end of May this year. But he made only 1 error the entire month of August and 2 since July 10th.  He's also making plays now he wasn't making before. Before, you had to think "who would want a .240 hitting shortstop who commits a ton of errors." But now with his improved defense, to go along what he can provide, some speed and power, and he's beginning to look like someone they can win with if playing everyday. But the jury's still out on Garcia. Yeah, he may be playing hurt, but he still swings at WAY too many pitchers pitches, so he gets himself out a lot. Having a bad knee shouldn't make him do this. I think last year was a career year. Maybe he's not a .230 hitter, but he isn't a .330 one either. We'd be foolish to expect him to ever duplicate that. Everyone else is either a bit player or shouldn't be here at all. Palka's dangerous and could help as a hitter coming off the bench. A Warren Newson or Jerry Hairston, for those of you who remember them. Sanchez is a good utility/back up infielder and Engel can be a defensive replacement on a contending team. Everyone else......I just hope that when it's getting closer to the White Sox contending they do go out and fill what holes they have by spending some money. It's not going to be able to just be go young and leaving it at that. I know the tear down to build up method is in vogue because the Cubs and Astros, the last two WS champs did this, but what has to be remembered is this. The Cubs didn't win the WS because of Addison Russell. They did because they picked up Lester and traded for Chapman. And the Astros didn't win because of George Springer. They did because they traded for Verlander. I hope the White Sox remember that. 

Great analysis, but we have no one in our upper management and scouting in the major or minor leagues  that comes close to the cubs and astros, no one.

[Soxsi75]

Unfortunately, I think you're right. And that's scary. 

[reiks12]

Sox will have plenty of trading chips and they will be forced into it due to logjams. 

Just look at our OF prospects..

[Soxsi75]

You're right, and I keep telling myself that. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

40 minutes ago, Soxsi75 said:

You're right, and I keep telling myself that. 

Really ? You;re worried that the Sox will rely solely on youngsters. I can guarantee without any doubt since payroll is low they will sign free agents this winter and next winter and also trade prospects to fill other holes maybe not as soon as they start spending on FA's but it will happen There's not a single front office in baseball that doesn't do that . There are tons of trades in the winter , at the trade deadline and just look at all the moves by the contenders at the August waiver trade tradeline that just passed.

The Cubs won a World Series and continue to deplete their farm system and spend a lot of money to try to win another one. And look at the prospects they gave up , Gleyber Torres, Eloy Jimenez, Dylan Cease, Jeimer Candelario, and Jorge Soler. That's a lot of top end talent along with others. Darvish, Quintana, Cole Hamels, Daniel Murphy all acquired after they won the World Series either in 2017 or 2018. John Lackey, Ben Zobrist and a huge overpay for Jason Heyward are free agents from the World Series team you didn't mention. Also traded for Wade Davis.

You have nothing to worry about except the Sox making poor trades  and Free agents and prospects flopping . But there definitely will be a lot going on .

Edited September 1, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
typo

[NWINFan]

CaliSox, I don't know how you can guarantee anything, but I hope you're right. The Sox cannot use the excuse of rebuilding to sit on their hands this off season. I don't expect the team to spend megabucks on a stud free agent, but I'd like to see some moves to make this team better right now. The recent play is encouraging, but the club will have six consecutive losing seasons. It's time to do something to supplement the rebuild.

During the history of the AL Central, the Sox have finished second several times only not to be that close to a title. Outside of the Indians, the division reeks. At least make some sort of effort to challenge in 2019. I don't like the idea of finishing second next year with a losing record.

I have been skeptical of the rebuild, but not with the idea of starting over with young talent. I have wondered if the organization can complete the job when needed. It's pointless to make it half way up the mountain just to climb back down.

[Chicago White Sox]

If the young starters continue to look this good in September, it will most definitely be time to spend some money.  People are fooling themselves if they think we’ll wait for all the W-S guys to get up before we start addressing holes.  The Sox are going to sign some bridge free agents this offseason.

[Lip Man 1]

36 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If the young starters continue to look this good in September, it will most definitely be time to spend some money.  People are fooling themselves if they think we’ll wait for all the W-S guys to get up before we start addressing holes.  The Sox are going to sign some bridge free agents this offseason.

I would expect they do so, not the premier guys, they'll probably have no interest in the Sox at this point but some solid guys to help keep moving things forward.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 hours ago, whitesoxbrad said:

Great analysis, but we have no one in our upper management and scouting in the major or minor leagues  that comes close to the cubs and astros, no one.

Wait so you can name every scout in the minor and major leagues for both teams and not only that their reputations in the baseball community and do the same for the front offices ? Wow you must be a baseball god . What team do you work for ?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

CaliSox, I don't know how you can guarantee anything, but I hope you're right. The Sox cannot use the excuse of rebuilding to sit on their hands this off season. I don't expect the team to spend megabucks on a stud free agent, but I'd like to see some moves to make this team better right now. The recent play is encouraging, but the club will have six consecutive losing seasons. It's time to do something to supplement the rebuild.

During the history of the AL Central, the Sox have finished second several times only not to be that close to a title. Outside of the Indians, the division reeks. At least make some sort of effort to challenge in 2019. I don't like the idea of finishing second next year with a losing record.

I have been skeptical of the rebuild, but not with the idea of starting over with young talent. I have wondered if the organization can complete the job when needed. It's pointless to make it half way up the mountain just to climb back down.

I can guarantee it because thats what rebuilds do.  Trade assets  for prospects . Knock payroll down .Wait a few years for the prospect to advance. . Use payroll then to fix holes through free agency. Trade other prospects to fix other holes and hit the competitive window with everything you got. The Cubs did it the Astros did it. It's rebuild 101and frankly I am shocked you don't know that.

Will the Sox spend as much as the Cubs ? I highly doubt it. The difference between the 2 rebuilds is the Sox went pitcher heavy in acquiring the 1st wave of prospects, It's a risk but if there's been one thing the Sox have been good at its developing pitchers. And now we are seeing that fruit ripen right now. Of course there are still doubts about drafting /developing hitters but the Sox have also made a lot of changes in the scouting and development area.

I can't guarantee a World Series win because rebuilds do fail but I can sure guarantee the process that's going on.

[turnin' two]

7 hours ago, whitesoxbrad said:

Great analysis, but we have no one in our upper management and scouting in the major or minor leagues  that comes close to the cubs and astros, no one.

Yeah.  Nothing but home runs from them.  Like, Heyward.  Or Chatwood.  Or Darvish.  Or trading Eloy and Cease for a declining Quintana.  

[Chicago White Sox]

59 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I would expect they do so, not the premier guys, they'll probably have no interest in the Sox at this point but some solid guys to help keep moving things forward.

All depends on the money.  And quite frankly, we should have more than anyone.  Now is not the time to be frugal with our cash.  We desperately need to add a transformational free agent to signal the rebuild is over and to build some excitement in this team.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Chicago White Sox

[Jack Parkman]

4 hours ago, turnin' two said:

Yeah.  Nothing but home runs from them.  Like, Heyward.  Or Chatwood.  Or Darvish.  Or trading Eloy and Cease for a declining Quintana.  

I say thanks to Cub fans for Eloy and Cease every time I see one. This one will make them cringe for a long long time. 

[Dam8610]

10 hours ago, NWINFan said:

CaliSox, I don't know how you can guarantee anything, but I hope you're right. The Sox cannot use the excuse of rebuilding to sit on their hands this off season. I don't expect the team to spend megabucks on a stud free agent, but I'd like to see some moves to make this team better right now. The recent play is encouraging, but the club will have six consecutive losing seasons. It's time to do something to supplement the rebuild.

During the history of the AL Central, the Sox have finished second several times only not to be that close to a title. Outside of the Indians, the division reeks. At least make some sort of effort to challenge in 2019. I don't like the idea of finishing second next year with a losing record.

I have been skeptical of the rebuild, but not with the idea of starting over with young talent. I have wondered if the organization can complete the job when needed. It's pointless to make it half way up the mountain just to climb back down.

Megabucks on a stud like Machado is the only thing that really makes sense in free agency for a team like this.

[GreenSox]

19 hours ago, whitesoxbrad said:

Great analysis, but we have no one in our upper management and scouting in the major or minor leagues  that comes close to the cubs and astros, no one.

Unfortunately this is correct.  Everyone has a 9 and a 5 they pencil in, but have a few injuries or guys that don't develop and we'll be back to depending on Hahn's drafting (which we are dependent upon anyway if the winning is to last more than a few years).
And Hahn still has to put a team together.

Edited September 2, 2018 by GreenSox