SCCWS Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 I do not think this will have much impact on a future contract. By 2025, I think this issue will be a distant memory. His agent will eventually steer him to the team that makes the most sense for the big payday ( for them as well). Now if Eloy suffers a major injury at Charlotte next April, the shit will hit the fan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 It seems like the Sox are taking more heat for keeping down Eloy than the Blue Jays are for keeping down Vlad, or does it just seem that way because of local coverage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, Tony said: This can’t be repeated enough. The only time the situation with Kris Bryant is talked about now is when the Eloy comparisons are made. You really think Kris Bryant is still holding a grudge? You really think Cubs fans are really holding a grudge against management? Come on. This is peak levels of the Twitter age we live in, getting upset in the moment, then all moving onto the next thing. The Sox are taking their PR lumps now for what they believe will be a better business decision in the future. Simple as that. I do think Bryant is holding a grudge. We'll see when he comes up for free agency. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 18 minutes ago, Tony said: This can’t be repeated enough. The only time the situation with Kris Bryant is talked about now is when the Eloy comparisons are made. You really think Kris Bryant is still holding a grudge? You really think Cubs fans are really holding a grudge against management? Come on. This is peak levels of the Twitter age we live in, getting upset in the moment, then all moving onto the next thing. The Sox are taking their PR lumps now for what they believe will be a better business decision in the future. Simple as that. Bryant's grievance case vs the Cubs is still pending. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 48 minutes ago, Tony said: . This is peak levels of the Twitter age we live in, getting upset in the moment, then all moving onto the next thing. Could not have said it better, myself. The outrage on twitter from some really intelligent bloggers and writers is laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Tony said: That was filed in 2015..... Bryant has every right to have his voice heard when the next CBA is up, and I expect some major changes to occur, as they should. I’ve still seen no evidence that Bryant spending an additional two weeks in the minors will have any impact on future contract negotiations with the Cubs. He has no choice on the impact on the contract negotiations until he reaches free agency. That is when you will know if it will make a difference. Edited September 4, 2018 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 1 hour ago, OmarComing25 said: It seems like the Sox are taking more heat for keeping down Eloy than the Blue Jays are for keeping down Vlad, or does it just seem that way because of local coverage? Local coverage for sure. But they also had somewhat of an excuse with Donaldson, which is now gone. Twins, Sox, jays have been getting pretty much equally hammered nationally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 1 hour ago, ptatc said: I do think Bryant is holding a grudge. We'll see when he comes up for free agency. Even if he signs somewhere else, we will never know if he is holding a grudge. Plenty of players sign elsewhere and have no grudge at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 1 hour ago, ptatc said: I do think Bryant is holding a grudge. We'll see when he comes up for free agency. We'll see if the Cubs offer him the most money, then we can determine if the grudge matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 43 minutes ago, ptatc said: He has no choice on the impact on the contract negotiations until he reaches free agency. That is when you will know if it will make a difference. So he will blow the Cubs off and sign with a team that would have done the same thing. For some reason , I tend to doubt it, he will sign with the team that wants to pay him, just like Eloy will if he becomes an elite free agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 18 minutes ago, bmags said: Local coverage for sure. But they also had somewhat of an excuse with Donaldson, which is now gone. Twins, Sox, jays have been getting pretty much equally hammered nationally. Vlad also didn't write an online article saying he's ready Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said: We'll see if the Cubs offer him the most money, then we can determine if the grudge matters. Exactly. Just a gut feeling that the Cubs will need to offer significantly more than others to get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: So he will blow the Cubs off and sign with a team that would have done the same thing. For some reason , I tend to doubt it, he will sign with the team that wants to pay him, just like Eloy will if he becomes an elite free agent. I think the Cubs will need to pay him significanly more than other teams for him to say. It's just my opinion but his being outspoken about how the CBA must change and the players will fight in this next negotiations, makes it sound like he is holding a grudge and he takes it personally. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 8 hours ago, Jake said: Makes sense Eloy isn't playing in AAA today. Sox already informed him that performance has no bearing on whether you'll play in MLB, no use risking injury. You're being really dramatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 No doubt Eloy is frustrated but he's not Kris Bryant or represented by Scott Boras. Eloy wants to play in Chicago so once he's a part of a perennial contender and likely the leader of the team I think he will move on from this and not look back. This is a big deal now but I doubt it will be a few years down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 9 hours ago, fathom said: Vlad also didn't write an online article saying he's ready Also Vlad is 2 1/2 years younger than Eloy. Despite the slightly better numbers, there's just more of a case to keep him down than there is with Eloy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 11 hours ago, SoxBlanco said: Even if he signs somewhere else, we will never know if he is holding a grudge. Plenty of players sign elsewhere and have no grudge at all. We may. He may discuss it if he is that passionate about it or they are usually rumors about what each team offers. If he signs somewhere for less money than the Cubs offer, the union may use it as an example for the CBA negotiations to try to get the owners to change the rule. But you're right that we may not know for sure, but I have a feeling it will come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) The White Sox are mean. They trade guys and make them move. They release guys, make them get other jobs. Sign guys to team friendly contracts, just ripping them off. Now don't call up a guy because the rules make it not so smart to actually call him up at this point. Just worthless. It's amazing there are enough guys willing to take their money they are able to field a team with that kind of history. Edited September 4, 2018 by Dick Allen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: The White Sox are mean. They trade guys and make them move. They release guys, make them get other jobs. Sign guys to team friendly contracts, just ripping them off. Now don't call up a guy because the rules make it not so smart to actually call him up at this point. Just worthless. It's amazing there are enough guys willing to take their money they are able to field a team with that kind of history. Sure take the discussion to ad absurdum when confronted with differing opinions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Vlad is 19 with less than what, 2 years of pro ball experience? Plus, isn't he a bad defender at 3B? Plenty of reasons to keep him down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, ptatc said: Sure take the discussion to ad absurdum when confronted with differing opinions. Because the grudge opinion does not work. Every team would do this in the White Sox situation. They are one of the few that doesn't do it every time. If that means guys won't sign with these teams, they are going to limit their markets to teams that can't pay them anyways. Eloy and his reps know the score. They knew what was going to happen. This isn't shocking to them. It's the rules, and it's stupid for teams not to use them to their advantage, just like players use rules to their advantage. It was something that was collectively bargained. If Eloy and his agents have an issue with anyone, it's the Union for agreeing to this. Maybe he will be so pissed off he will refuse to join. I really don't know what he would get out of facing the Tigers anyways. It's a glorified AAA team, and supposedly he gets nothing out of facing that kind of competition. Edited September 4, 2018 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Vlad's age is not a reason to keep him down. He slashed .381/.437/.636 this year across A+/AA/AAA. Daniel Palka could develop defense in the majors but I guess Vlad Guerrero can not. Frankly I think this stems from an attitude that no player deserves to be paid millions for baseball, and any curtailing of that salary, no matter how unfair or no matter how much it's just profiting owners, is justified. Major League Baseball, constantly fighting off detractors that it's old and stale, should not be in the business of preventing the game's best players from playing in the league. Yes, it's also the right of NBA teams to sit their best players when tanking, or stars for rest. But the league doesn't cheer that on, and there's no reason for me to be going around saying "yayyy, save jerry that money! Chop that year of Eloy's career off! He should have never written that article and kept his mouth shut like I woulda in that situation cause i'd just be happy to be there!" This shouldn't just be the players' cause to improve the product of baseball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 And for the record, I get that it is the rules, and it's not fair the white sox org should have to be benevolent when other orgs are taking advantage. But I am curious if, removing the white sox control from the equation, they think this actually makes the game better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Because the grudge opinion does not work. Every team would do this in the White Sox situation. They are one of the few that doesn't do it every time. If that means guys won't sign with these teams, they are going to limit their markets to teams that can't pay them anyways. Eloy and his reps know the score. They knew what was going to happen. This isn't shocking to them. It's the rules, and it's stupid for teams not to use them to their advantage, just like players use rules to their advantage. It was something that was collectively bargained. If Eloy and his agents have an issue with anyone, it's the Union for agreeing to this. Maybe he will be so pissed off he will refuse to join. I really don't know what he would get out of facing the Tigers anyways. It's a glorified AAA team, and supposedly he gets nothing out of facing that kind of competition. You don't know if it doesn't work. The only other case where a grievance has been filed or threatened to be filed is Bryant and he has taken very specific stances on how the rules need to change to the point that he wants to be the player rep to have more influence. All sides know the score as you say but the fact that the Sox offered to buy out his arb years and they declined speaks more to my point than yours. We have evidence that they are not going make it easy for the Sox in future contracts. Of course the Sox are playing by the rules and the reps can blame the union. The Sox have done absolutely nothing wrong by the rules. However, that doesn't mean they aren't ticked off that the Sox treated him this way and it's going to cost the Sox significantly when the time comes. Edited September 4, 2018 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, ptatc said: You don't know if it doesn't work. The only other case where a grievance has been filed or threatened to be filed is Bryant and he has taken very specific stances on how the rules need to change to the point that he wants to be the player rep to have more influence. All sides know the score as you say but the fact that the Sox offered to buy out his arb years and they declined speaks more to my point than yours. We have evidence that they are not going make it easy for the Sox in future contracts. Of course the Sox are playing by the rules and the reps can blame the union. The Sox have done absolutely nothing wrong by the rules. However, that doesn't mean they aren't ticked off that the Sox treated him this way and it's going to cost the Sox significantly when the time comes. If he wasn't interested in signing something before he ever played a major league game that would set him up for life, he wasn't going to sign something if he has some success later just because the Sox called him up in September 2018. It's ludicrous to even consider that a possibility. Just like everyone else, if the Sox want to keep Eloy if he turns out to be great, will be to pay him the most money. Bryce Harper didn't sign an extension. The Nationals were pretty nice to him. Manny Machado didn't sign an extension. The Orioles were pretty nice to him. The days of the Sale-like extensions, especially for big time position player prospects are coming to an end. You do endorse holding guys down for Super 2 reasons. Why wouldn't that piss a player off? Edited September 4, 2018 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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