Abreu

[SCCWS]

The Sox have done very well despite the loss of Abreu.  In hindsight, if he had any value at the deadline( not sure he did) it would have been a good move to let him go.  Davidson has found a home for a while. 

Edited September 3, 2018 by SCCWS

[ron883]

He didn't have any value at the deadline. He played like complete trash right up until the deadline.

[harkness99]

Well.... they were playing well before abreu got hurt.. so I'm not sure there is much connection.

 

plus - need a lot bigger sample size then 2 weeks.

[he gone.]

I'm on board with this plan. I think we can trade off our minor league pieces to compliment our guys now. If we can just put some people around Engel, Palka and Davidson I think we can really compete for a World Series. I think we trade away Robert and the likes and go with the true core we have now.

 

We need to stop getting caught up in 3 week stretches. Davidson, Engel & Palka are fringe pieces. It'd be nice for one or two to stick in a role on the team. But don't forget from May-August when Davidson was god awful. Or Engel too. I'm enjoying this stretch too, but I think we have to keep in mind who these guys really are.

[GreenSox]

Davidson is not fringe.  Recognizing the risk that this year is a fluke (and not the start of a fine career) , I'd still rather go forward with him than extend Abreu (which I certainly wouldn't do)
Engel's D has become close to top level....he needs to work on the bat, but it's getting better.

Palka is fringe....HR is all he's got.  He doesn't walk, which could take the edge off of the high Ks and low BA.   He's fun though.

What to do with Avi? Should have moved him in July - he was hitting the last week and his OPS was still above .800 then.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by GreenSox

[Quin]

3 hours ago, BrianAnderson said:

I'm on board with this plan. I think we can trade off our minor league pieces to compliment our guys now. If we can just put some people around Engel, Palka and Davidson I think we can really compete for a World Series. I think we trade away Robert and the likes and go with the true core we have now.

 

We need to stop getting caught up in 3 week stretches. Davidson, Engel & Palka are fringe pieces. It'd be nice for one or two to stick in a role on the team. But don't forget from May-August when Davidson was god awful. Or Engel too. I'm enjoying this stretch too, but I think we have to keep in mind who these guys really are.

Got real mad at the first half of this, then breathed a sigh of relief.

[iWiN4PreP]

I know this is a bit off topic but I need to say two things:

1) I think we should explore any and all trade opportunities for Jose Abreu. I really like the Rockies in this scenario. Abreu for Ryan McMahon or Abreu for one of their OF's or something. Seems like the Rockies have no interest in using their prospects properly, so give them a piece like Abreu who could really rock it for them at 1b as they likely intend to compete this year. Honestly, I have no clue why this deal hasn't already been worked out as it makes too much sense to me.

But OK, if we can't get anything of GOOD value for him, then we gladly keep him. I'll be happy with that outcome as well, but I strongly prefer a good trade for him since he is a FA soon and getting older during out contention window.

 

2) We need to explore every opportunity to trade Carlos Rodon this off season. I love the Braves as a destination here. I do NOT trust Rodon. His peripheals this year are showing signs of luck, he seems to be injured half the time, yet there's a strong possibility that we could find a very good home for him this off season with a great return. We should do this since we all know he is a Boras client and a FA coming up soon.

We get 4 more quality prospects from these deals that are near-MLB ready and we are talking super-team with some FA signings here by 2020 and ability to compete even in 2019.

Note: I'm not by any means saying we HAVE to trade either, but that we should STRONGLY look to trade them.

Edited September 4, 2018 by iWiN4PreP

[Dominikk85]

I would not extend abreu either but I don't buy Davidson either. The walks are a good improvement but he is 27 and has a 119 wrc+ with a .327 babip. Give him a 300 babip and he is a .215 hitter. With 12% walks and 35 homers that still has value (Chris carter style) but it is probably only an average bat at first/dh.

 

Btw regarding abreu I'm pretty sure he was hurt. He was good in April and May, then hit like a pitcher in June July and was good again in August. Overall he still has a 119 season wRC+. They should try to trade him next season as soon as possible when he is healthy and performing because I don't think his health will hold well into his mid 30s.

[BlackSox13]

I'd like to see more of Palka, Davidson and Delmonico next season but not sold on any of them yet. Between the three I think Palka has the best chance of sticking around long term. 

As for Abreu I don't know what to think. I'm not against trading him but how many teams will be looking for a first baseman that is destined to be a DH? I think trading Abreu is easier said than done. I do agree that trading him would make it easier to give more time to Palka, Davidson and Delmonico on a daily basis. Thing is, even with Abreu gone there's still not enough room for all three once Eloy comes up and takes over LF. 

Even more interesting to think about is what will the Sox do with Avi? I lean towards trading him if possible.

 

[Greg Hibbard]

Even with his “hot” streak, Davidson is like a .225 / .730 hitter since May 1 with just 11 HR. I would rather  take my chances with Palka. 

[southsider2k5]

13 hours ago, GreenSox said:

Davidson is not fringe.  Recognizing the risk that this year is a fluke (and not the start of a fine career) , I'd still rather go forward with him than extend Abreu (which I certainly wouldn't do)
Engel's D has become close to top level....he needs to work on the bat, but it's getting better.

Palka is fringe....HR is all he's got.  He doesn't walk, which could take the edge off of the high Ks and low BA.   He's fun though.

What to do with Avi? Should have moved him in July - he was hitting the last week and his OPS was still above .800 then.

 

 

What were the offers the Sox turned down for Avi?

[Kyyle23]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

What were the offers the Sox turned down for Avi?

so many offers for a guy that has spent a majority of the season on the DL, lemme tell ya

[Kyyle23]

14 hours ago, SCCWS said:

The Sox have done very well despite the loss of Abreu.  In hindsight, if he had any value at the deadline( not sure he did) it would have been a good move to let him go.  Davidson has found a home for a while. 

no

[he gone.]

I haven't really posted on the board as much this year, but when did we stop liking Abreu? The sentiment has seemed to really change.

Three players have hit 25HR+ and had 100RBI+ in their first 4 seasons in the MLB...

Pujols

DiMaggio

Abreu

This year he has 22HR and 78RBI while being out for a month and playing on a god awful team with no protection behind him. (as was the case in many of the years).

Now I get that he is old, and he is in a position where you have to get that power production that may fall off in the coming years. However talk about a guy who puts on his hard hat and does things the right way.. I'm sorry, but I just don't get it. Let him play out his contract, explore FA if he'd like and then match the offers if it makes sense. Guys like him don't grow on trees.

Let's just run the career stats:

Player A:

.296ba, .354obp, .873ops, averaging 30HR's and 35 doubles a year

 

Player B:

.230ba, .299obp, .755ops, 23HR's and 20 doubles a year. Oh and 140K's in 417AB's this year. 165 in 443AB last year. More K's in either year than player A has ever had in his career in a full season (668AB)

 

Complaining about Abreu and trying to act like Davidson is anything is the reason we don't deserve nice things as Sox fans. Davidson is a BUM. sorry. If he's playing significant time for us other than a backup 1b,3b,dh, lf then we're not winning anything. Go ahead and find me a starting spot for Davidson on the Dodgers, Cubs, Brewers, Braves, Yankees, BoSox, Astros, Indians roster right now.. those are teams going for it all -- find me his spot. You won't find a spot for a player of his caliber. Or Engel. Or for that matter (and it hurts cause he's a fan favorite) Palka. The best case is either for Engel as 4OF (he likely wont be) or Palka as DH/PH - it's not Davidson and not by a long shot. These type of players are nice for 2018 ChiSox -- but they are NOT parts of actual teams winning championships. The best they'll be is part of teams trying to compete for WC spots. As long as Davidsion, Engel and Palka are part of the conversation I can guarantee you won't be winning a World Series.

 

 

[Ducksnort]

6 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

I haven't really posted on the board as much this year, but when did we stop liking Abreu? The sentiment has seemed to really change.

Three players have hit 25HR+ and had 100RBI+ in their first 4 seasons in the MLB...

Pujols

DiMaggio

Abreu

This year he has 22HR and 78RBI while being out for a month and playing on a god awful team with no protection behind him. (as was the case in many of the years).

Now I get that he is old, and he is in a position where you have to get that power production that may fall off in the coming years. However talk about a guy who puts on his hard hat and does things the right way.. I'm sorry, but I just don't get it. Let him play out his contract, explore FA if he'd like and then match the offers if it makes sense. Guys like him don't grow on trees.

Let's just run the career stats:

Player A:

.296ba, .354obp, .873ops, averaging 30HR's and 35 doubles a year

 

Player B:

.230ba, .299obp, .755ops, 23HR's and 20 doubles a year. Oh and 140K's in 417AB's this year. 165 in 443AB last year. More K's in either year than player A has ever had in his career in a full season (668AB)

 

Complaining about Abreu and trying to act like Davidson is anything is the reason we don't deserve nice things as Sox fans. Davidson is a BUM. sorry. If he's playing significant time for us other than a backup 1b,3b,dh, lf then we're not winning anything. Go ahead and find me a starting spot for Davidson on the Dodgers, Cubs, Brewers, Braves, Yankees, BoSox, Astros, Indians roster right now.. those are teams going for it all -- find me his spot. You won't find a spot for a player of his caliber. Or Engel. Or for that matter (and it hurts cause he's a fan favorite) Palka. The best case is either for Engel as 4OF (he likely wont be) or Palka as DH/PH - it's not Davidson and not by a long shot. These type of players are nice for 2018 ChiSox -- but they are NOT parts of actual teams winning championships. The best they'll be is part of teams trying to compete for WC spots. As long as Davidsion, Engel and Palka are part of the conversation I can guarantee you won't be winning a World Series.

 

 

Mic Drop. This hurts, but it's true

[southsider2k5]

55 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

so many offers for a guy that has spent a majority of the season on the DL, lemme tell ya

Yeah I mean if we are going to say that the White Sox should have... can we at least make it something rooted in reality?  I mean I should have dated a supermodel at some point, but then look at me and um, sure.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Palka's power can be truly elite. That's why people value him. It's certainly projectable coming from a rookie, 26 years old or not. I would not write him off at all.

[Greg Hibbard]

Abreu is absolutely fine - this year. Next year? He will be older...

And two years from now, during the beginning of our likely window of competitiveness, he will be even older on the wrong side of 30.

I think if he were two years younger, everyone would be fine with extending Abreu and keeping him around throughout this run. However, it’s not clear how much value a player like him has at 34,35,36 when he’s at best average defensively and as a 1st baseman doesn’t have a ton of value above replacement 

[Bob Sacamano]

13 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Palka's power can be truly elite. That's why people value him. It's certainly projectable coming from a rookie, 26 years old or not. I would not write him off at all.

Especially the fact he is left-handed. Guy definitely needs to DH to open next year. Delmonico can play LF (for like 2 weeks) until Eloy comes up and then he can move into a bench role spelling the corner IF spots and LF every once in a while.

Edited September 4, 2018 by soxfan2014

[iWiN4PreP]

58 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Especially the fact he is left-handed. Guy definitely needs to DH to open next year. Delmonico can play LF (for like 2 weeks) until Eloy comes up and then he can move into a bench role spelling the corner IF spots and LF every once in a while.

Yeah -- Maybe we need a topic to analyze Daniel Palka and his updated projections/ability. I am very interested in him -- his power is amazing and he seems absolutely hilarious/good character. He's someone I could get behind if I knew more about his projected abilities in the AVG./OBP department. 

[NWINFan]

I like Matt Davidson. I cheer hard for him every time he comes up. When he gets a hold of one, it will go a long way. But he hasn't shown he is a consistent major league hitter. And he still has not shown that he is a dependable RBI man.  I can't see how the team can make any major plans that center around Davidson.  It's too bad because injuries has hurt his development.

[ChiSox59]

Can Abreu, Davidson, Palka and Delmonico all co-exist on the roster? I think the answer to that is definitively no.  Especially if the Sox make any sort of splash in FA.  

Delmonico probably gets the LF job for like 10 games next year until Eloy comes up.  He'll have an option left, so I think he goes to Charlotte at that point for everyday at bats.  Davidson is out of options.  Does Palka have one still?  

Palka is my DH next season.  He mashes RH pitching, and Davidson matches LH, so a platoon does make some sense. Just not sure there is really room on the roster for Davidson as a part time DH unless the Sox basically stand pat offensively this offseason.  Any signing of a CF or 3B pushes Davidson off the roster IMO because your bench is going to be made up of some mixture of Castillo/Narvaez, Leury, Engel, and Yolmer.  Rondon definitely has an option left so he probably stays in Charlotte.  

There is an awesome website that tracks options/contract status that was passed around here earlier this season and can't recall what it was.  Anyone have that handy?  

[TheFutureIsNear]

Davidson, Palka, Engel, Delmonico

Please get all of these guys out of your head as regulars down the line. They are all indeed fringe MLB talent. They have had more than enough professional AB’s for anyone to realize they shouldn’t be starting players if the White Sox plan to compete for a World Series in the next 5 years. Do they each have 1 skill set that can likely keep them in the majors as bench pieces? Sure, but I really hope all fans have their sights set on acquiring much more talent in the next few years. Between the prospects already acquired and the cap space that will be available there’s just no excuse to have these types of guys in the starting lineup much longer 

 

[Greg Hibbard]

Davidson and Engel I agree on

I just don't think Delmonico or Palka have had enough ABs at the ML level to know whatsoever

[flavum]

1 minute ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Davidson and Engel I agree on

I just don't think Delmonico or Palka have had enough ABs at the ML level to know whatsoever

To be a fly on the wall at the organizational meetings...

I’ve said it before...self-scouting will be one of the biggest components to whether this rebuild works or not. They need to keep the best players and not settle for guys they like or are blind to their faults.